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Thread: Noe Baba

  1. #21
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    He wasn't a player as such when he acquired a new nationality, i.e. assuming he had already Irish nationality when he played for the u17's.
    He acquired the Irish nationality before he became a player, while he was a minor.
    That's how I read it.
    The last line of Article 7 gives the biggest clue to that
    'He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.'

    For example if a kid settles in Ireland at the age of 12 and acquires Irish nationality by the age of 15, he does not have to satisfy the requirements of article 7.
    Last edited by geysir; 16/11/2012 at 1:32 PM.

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    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    He wasn't a player as such when he acquired a new nationality, i.e. assuming he had already Irish nationality when he played for the u17's.
    He acquired the Irish nationality before he became a player, while he was a minor.
    That's how I read it.
    The last line of Article 8 gives the biggest clue to that
    'He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.'

    For example if a kid settles in Ireland at the age of 12 and acquires Irish nationality by the age of 15, he does not have to satisfy the requirements of article 8.
    But don't the eligibility rules apply to under-age sides as well?

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    Being naturalized before you become a player/ or when a minor, is complying with the eligibility rules.
    Afair, there are quite a few Swiss players, senior or/and u21's who were naturalized Swiss citizens while they were minors. There was no such thing as requiring the player to be resident in Switzerland for 5 years after he reached the age of 18, before he could play for Switzerland.

    You have to consider why article 7 exists. Primarily to deal with players acquiring a new nationality who have not established sufficient links to the new country.
    That does not apply to children of families who move to another country
    Last edited by geysir; 16/11/2012 at 1:33 PM.

  4. #24
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Geysir is correct. I think we talked about this during the last World Cup, I think concerning Gelsen Fernandes or Johan Djourou who moved to Switzerland as a child and represented their sides despite having no family connection to the country. The rules specifically concern people who change nationalities after either a) turning 18 or b) representing another national team. A child who is granted citizenship is not required to meet residency criteria.

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    Indeed. As I posted earlier -

    Quote Originally Posted by Me View Post
    If his parents are naturalised citizens, which they presumably are, then it is likely they applied for Irish citizenship on their son's behalf.

    In this case, that of a naturalised parent applying on behalf of a minor child, the Minister for Justice and Equality has the power to waive one or more of the conditions for naturalisation. It's safe to assume therefore that Noe is already an Irish citizen, and qualifies by virtue of his citizenship.

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    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    Geysir is correct. I think we talked about this during the last World Cup, I think concerning Gelsen Fernandes or Johan Djourou who moved to Switzerland as a child and represented their sides despite having no family connection to the country. The rules specifically concern people who change nationalities after either a) turning 18 or b) representing another national team. A child who is granted citizenship is not required to meet residency criteria.
    Is that expressly legislated for in the statues though or just assumed?

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    Fair enough, but would be interested if Cameroon put in a 'claim' on him, assuming they're 'entitled'.
    Or any player born in another country for that matter.

    Not comfortable with any country exploiting 'residency' rules generally, as reckon we'd lose more than we gain?

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    Is that expressly legislated for in the statues though or just assumed?
    It's not explicitly stated but the "over the age of 18" caveat implies it. Otherwise, no naturalised child would be able to represent their national team until the age of 23, which is patently ridiculous. The FIFA statutes rely heavily on common sense being implied - if they were proper legal documents they'd take about 4 years to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy View Post
    Fair enough, but would be interested if Cameroon put in a 'claim' on him, assuming they're 'entitled'.
    Or any player born in another country for that matter.

    Not comfortable with any country exploiting 'residency' rules generally, as reckon we'd lose more than we gain?
    How so?

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    Well, 'second-generation' players would be vulnerable, or those born in the stare, whose parents leave the country for whatever reason.

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    But if we're vulnerable, surely there'd be examples where we have lost out? I'd say African countries, such as Cameroon, would be the most vulnerable. Even Jamaica are looking to lose out on Raheem Sterling, and Canada have lost out on Hargreaves in recent times, while Junior Hoilett and Jonathan de Guzman have courted other countries for years.

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    Well only because, mainly England, haven't bothered to pursue them in the main, or seek to enforce that rule if that's possible?

    Maybe Scotland would have tried harder to tie down McGeady or McCarthy this way?

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    McGeady and McCarthy don't have anything to do with residency, surely? I'd suspect Irish immigrants in England have a much stronger sense of national identity than African immigrants whose countries may not be that united to begin with.

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    Agreed, but this is all mainly hypothetical, based on regulations that are slow on being taken up. Thankfully, for now.

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    I'm sorry, do we not have a 221 page thread on Eligibility Rules?
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    I don't see why we'd necessarily be vulnerable to the residency regulations. In cricket perhaps, but I can't think of any Ireland-born football player whose family has moved abroad, they've all become naturalised citizens of their new home country, and the player has gone on to represent their new home country. I'm no cricket expert, but there's a different social dynamic at work in football that to in cricket, I would think. I think Charlie's alluded to that.

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    So the concensus appears to be that it's a statute black hole where minors who acquire a new nationality are given some kind of leeway. Seems strange to me as what's to stop the likes of Qatar targeting under 18 prospects and giving them passports?

    Are we sure that his parents are naturalised citizens in the first place? Not sure when Noe or his family arrived in Ireland. Doesn't the whole process require at least 5 years continuous legal residency plus a year or two on top of that to process? Then once they received it, the processing would presumably start for the child?

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    Also, I don't think FIFA or UEFA check every players' eligibility (bar looking at passports maybe) unless there is a protest or if it is a player who has already represented one association and wishes to now change to another association. 'It is up to the national associations to make sure that players are eligible for their teams...'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irwin3 View Post
    Also, I don't think FIFA or UEFA check every players' eligibility (bar looking at passports maybe) unless there is a protest or if it is a player who has already represented one association and wishes to now change to another association. 'It is up to the national associations to make sure that players are eligible for their teams...'
    They do check. There was a case a couple of years ago of a Nigerian born lad who couldn't play for the u19s in a UEFA qualifier as his citizenship wasn't granted (in time).

    I'm a bt uneasy about the discussion on his citizenship when nobody knows the facts. Perhaps its due to Asylum/Family Reunification. There's a fair chance too that Baba was never a citizen of Cameroon and therefore wouldn't be 'changing' nationality. There's lots and lots of ways in which he may have become an Irish citizen.

    What we do know is that he's lived here for a number of eyars and so far has been happy to call himself Irish and play for his country. And just like Gibson, Kearns and anyone else who may be eligible for more than one countries, it should be completely down to the personal choice of the player
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Indeed. As I posted earlier -
    You only explained a scenario whereby the kid could have assumed a new nationality.
    You didn't explain how this new nationality 'harmonised' with FIFA's eligibility criteria, nor did you offer any precedents.
    Fly, you fell short, yet again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    They do check. There was a case a couple of years ago of a Nigerian born lad who couldn't play for the u19s in a UEFA qualifier as his citizenship wasn't granted (in time).

    I'm a bt uneasy about the discussion on his citizenship when nobody knows the facts. Perhaps its due to Asylum/Family Reunification. There's a fair chance too that Baba was never a citizen of Cameroon and therefore wouldn't be 'changing' nationality. There's lots and lots of ways in which he may have become an Irish citizen.
    Since when do we need to know facts before such discussions

    If he was a Cameroon citizen, as is very likely (jus soli or jus sanguis), he loses that when taking up a new nationality.
    If events did transpire that such a player wanted to play for Cameroon, he would have to (re)apply for Cameroonian citizenship.

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