Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

**Charlie Darwin** · 31/03/2011, 7:09 PM

Still laughing thinking of all the Liverpool and Manchester City fans around Ireland who'll have to put their tickets up on Ebay.

**Jinxy** · 31/03/2011, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

And yes there are women who go to the rugby who are clueless. I know plenty of them! One thing that really struck me after we lost to France at home in 2007 was how not disappointed the people I was with were. I was part of a group of ten, guests of Bank of Ireland. In fact, the talk in the bar after the game was barely even about the game. I was gutted, and furious with the team for blowing it.

When we lose at football, we go for our pints afterwards and can't speak. Abject misery. It's not a representative sample I know, but I think it says something (maybe that I shouldn't take sport so seriously).

That would be my experience as well.
Even watching rugby games in the pub, if the team lose most people have forgotten about it half an hour later and are just getting stuck into the pints.
I don't think I've ever seen someone get angry over Ireland losing a game of rugby and I know plenty of people that played the game in school.
To illustrate the point I think the rugby team only got around 10,000 or so at their homecoming in town after the grand slam.
If Ireland did well in a world cup or european championships or Dublin won an All-Ireland, you wouldn't be able to move in town.
Sure Cork had something like 50,000 at their homecoming last year.
I like watching rugby and I want to see the team win, but I don't feel particularly passionate about it.
After the 'Hand of Henry' game in Paris I was fit to be tied.
I'd be the same after losing a big football game in Croke Park.
Rugby just doesn't do it for me.
Probably because I never actually played it.

**cornflakes** · 01/04/2011, 7:53 AM

I love watching rugby but I'd swap ten grand slams for an appearance at Euro 2012 or the next world cup

**Stuttgart88** · 01/04/2011, 12:39 PM

Just a funny story, this is probably the best place for it.

One of my old school mates who I hang out with over here grew up just off Templeville Road, on the Terenure / Templeogue border, and only 2 miles from Tallaght. He's a big rugby fan, really passionate about it. He won a JCT winners medal, in 1982 I think it was.

He went to see Ireland A vs South Africa's second string at Tallaght Stadium last year. I asked him what he thought of it.

He said "Good. I didn't really know what to expect as I hadn't been there before".

I said "where, Rovers?"

He said "No, Tallaght".

**Noelys Guitar** · 01/04/2011, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Just a funny story, this is probably the best place for it.

One of my old school mates who I hang out with over here grew up just off Templeville Road, on the Terenure / Templeogue border, and only 2 miles from Tallaght. He's a big rugby fan, really passionate about it. He won a JCT winners medal, in 1982 I think it was.

He went to see Ireland A vs South Africa's second string at Tallaght Stadium last year. I asked him what he thought of it.

He said "Good. I didn't really know what to expect as I hadn't been there before".

I said "where, Rovers?"

He said "No, Tallaght".

Ollie Campbell admitted he had to ask his parents about the name of the big stadium on the northside and what it was used for. He was a teenager at the time.

**paul_oshea** · 01/04/2011, 5:01 PM

And he used to love playing against england, oh wait that might be ginger mcloughlin actually.

**amaccann** · 02/04/2011, 4:09 PM

Interesting article in the weekend's Irish Times, that brings up the issue of poor crowds at the Ireland soccer matches, as well as rugby's leap in popularity:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...293646626.html

I don't think it's a fair article, in fact in places I think it's a little bitter, but one thing it does raise & is worth considering, is that the currency of Irish national football is being severely watered down & discredited by the antics of players like Stephen Ireland or Jermaine Pennant. It's a fair point in my view. The FAI should be doing more to fight the negative press that's surely eroding how the national team is viewed both on the inside and out.

**Charlie Darwin** · 02/04/2011, 4:18 PM

It's a poor article. The implication seems to be that rugby has replaced soccer in the hearts of the general public when it's more complicated than that. The FAI is coming down from the highs of the 90s and early 00s and crowds were always going to decrease, especially as they've dithered over ticket pricing. Rugby is probably over its peak too but that came more recently. It's going to decline in popularity too, especially if the Irish team and provinces aren't competing as much.

**Jinxy** · 02/04/2011, 8:44 PM

Reduce the prices and people will go to the games.
Just back from Croke Park where I'm told the attendance was over 35,000 on a truly horrible night (I'm f*ckin soaked).
€13 a pop and plenty of kids & families there.
I realise prices that low might not be feasible for the FAI but there has to be some recognition of the current economic woes.

**paul_oshea** · 02/04/2011, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

It's a poor article. The implication seems to be that rugby has replaced soccer in the hearts of the general public when it's more complicated than that. The FAI is coming down from the highs of the 90s and early 00s and crowds were always going to decrease, especially as they've dithered over ticket pricing. Rugby is probably over its peak too but that came more recently. It's going to decline in popularity too, especially if the Irish team and provinces aren't competing as much.

Will it though, im not so sure, i think they are at at the level now where the provinces will always be there and there abouts, and if they dont produce the players they will just buy them in. Just look at thomond park for the munster leinster game this evening. Its magners league, but they have built up this rivalry now, it was always there, but because of the popularity of rugby and the success of both clubs everyone is talking about it.

I do really fear for soccer and young lads coming through if this continues which i reckon it will. We drastically need to qualify for a tournament, 2 tournaments in a row would go a long long way to that.

**amaccann** · 02/04/2011, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

It's a poor article. The implication seems to be that rugby has replaced soccer in the hearts of the general public when it's more complicated than that. The FAI is coming down from the highs of the 90s and early 00s and crowds were always going to decrease, especially as they've dithered over ticket pricing. Rugby is probably over its peak too but that came more recently. It's going to decline in popularity too, especially if the Irish team and provinces aren't competing as much.

I wouldn't count on rugby going away. I don't know if you watched the Munster / Leinster match, but Thomand Park was hopping; the atmosphere was amazing (speaking as an Ulsterman btw) and really puts the soccer crowds further in the shade. For a sport dismissed in this thread as being supported by women & accountants, Thomand was buzzing.

The so-called golden era of Rugby is over, but the crowds are staying put & the IRFU have built solid foundations for the provinces to continue being attractive for investment & competitive on the pitch. Amid the misery of our times, it's good to see homegrown franchises reaching out and becoming world-class. As I said before, the key has been building things up from community level. Local lads done good.

But anyway...

The reason why I posted the Irish Times article because to me it raised an interesting point. When you think of all the articles that have been printed about the Irish soccer team in the last 12 months, they have nearly all been inherently negative. Stephen Ireland, Jermaine Pennant, even the James McCarthy saga have all (in my mind) served to portray the sphere of Irish international soccer with an air of the soap opera. There must be more talk wasted on the latest fecking drama than on the football. Is this some sort of legacy of Saipan - that the Ireland team can't survive as a public entity without a persistent crisis?

I'm not trying to suggest there's one simple reason why fans are staying away, but when you consistently open the newspapers and read of the Ireland team treated as some kind of bloody melodrama, or worse - a budget England team - even a long time fan like myself is slow to care when the team actually gets a chance to run onto the pitch.

**Crosby87** · 02/04/2011, 11:55 PM

Good post Amaccan.
One thing that bothers me however is that the McCarthy thing was totally baseless. I mean the media were just blatantly making **** up. So thats going to be a losing battle if it all depends on negativity coming out of lies. You would think it would sway things in the OTHER direction once proven to be malicious BS as was the case when the Red Rover came into the game last week.

Also is there not room for both Rugby and Football? Fecks sake, Ireland is'nt that small.
If I can watch 4 or 5 different sports at the same time on say a Sunday afternoon, believe me anyone can enjoy two at seperate times..... Why the Stigma of liking both sports? Why do people have to choose? Paul whats your opinion about that?
I do not get the whole rivalry thing. Also DeJa vu this conversation almost happened to an exact "T" on here a few months ago. Don't have time to look it up and quote it but it almost seems like the whole Rugby/Football problem is caused by people wanting to say the same things over and over about the Rugby/Football problem.

Lastly OBVIOUSLY when you start to win consistently or in a fun way people watch. Not directed at anyone on here but Duh. Doesn't matter what sport it is...Winning brings people together. my Dad is the type who is more likely to be the next US President (Never) than ever in his 60 odd years watch a Rugby game and he asked me the other day if I knew IRL beat England. It just...when you win people who would not otherwise notice fill the ****ing seats!! In any sport Lads!

**Predator** · 03/04/2011, 2:17 AM

Originally Posted by amaccann

Interesting article in the weekend's Irish Times, that brings up the issue of poor crowds at the Ireland soccer matches, as well as rugby's leap in popularity:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...293646626.html

I don't think it's a fair article, in fact in places I think it's a little bitter, but one thing it does raise & is worth considering, is that the currency of Irish national football is being severely watered down & discredited by the antics of players like Stephen Ireland or Jermaine Pennant. It's a fair point in my view. The FAI should be doing more to fight the negative press that's surely eroding how the national team is viewed both on the inside and out.

I don't think the 'currency' of the national team should be dictated by bad press associated with said players. The author makes the point about Charlton and the glory days, but the same kind of granny-ruling was going on then too, but we got to major tournaments, so it was fine...

Originally Posted by Johnny Watterson

Can you ever see [Trapattoni] appearing on the Late Late Show and winning the audience in the same way as the gruff and uncomplicated Jack Charlton did?

What a ridiculous thing to say. Trapattoni did appear on the Late Late Show and showed dignity. It's unfair to compare him to Charlton in this light, considering that English is not his mother tongue (not that English was necessarily Charlton's either). Trapattoni is an entertaining, animated character. He's well-respected internationally. I don't blame him for Rugby's recent upsurge in popularity. It's too late for me to rant.

**mypost** · 03/04/2011, 2:54 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I've been paying E50 for all the competitive games so far; that's E150 for the three games (the article linked says competitive tickets are between E45 and E60; don't know how you're paying E34?

You've been had. I haven't paid 50 at all since Lansdowne reopened.

Originally Posted by gspain

I know many would love a deal where they are guaranteed tickets for big games but don't want to go to friendlies and qualifiers v Andorra etc but it doesn't work like that.

Nor should it. Any Ireland fan should want to go to any home game, be it Andorra or Argentina. Winning the game is the point of going, not based on who is trying to beat us.

Originally Posted by Jinxy;

Lets be honest here, if you took the average wage of a rugby, soccer or GAA crowd the rugby fans would be a good bit higher.
I know plenty of guys that go to rugby games that have never played the sport and have no desire to do so.
They are not involved or affiliated with any club.
Going to a game of rugby is a social event for them.
It's almost like networking in a way.
A lot of them would work in banks and there is a strong rugby school culture in our financial institutions.
This is why the Aviva will always be full for 6 nations rugby games regardless of how the team is performing.
I know a good few women that go to the games that know nothing about rugby.
And I mean NOTHING.
They wouldn't be caught dead at a soccer, hurling or football game though.
So it's not just performance that affects attendances.

Women in this country enjoy rugby more imo, as it's much more people-friendly. Few women have the desire or the patience to go to every game and have them and their possessions searched, have their drink bottles confiscated, or the bottle tops removed if bought in the stadium, forced to sit in a segregated area, put up with the choice language from those around them, and/or herded in like cattle after the game. They want to mingle with strangers and fans of the opposition, sit where they like whenever they want, come and go from the stadium when it suits them. Now foreign girls will put up with it in countries where rugby doesn't exist and football is the No. 1 sport, but not as many will here. Rugby gives them greater freedom to do as they please.

As regards rugger's "popularity", it's a temporary thing. Only a few weeks ago, the Irish egg-chasers were playing badly, losing games, getting a lashing in the press, and struggling to get big crowds for friendlies. Then they beat England, and are apparantly world cup "contenders" again. A poor WC for them, and a qualification for Poland and Ukraine for us, will see the proper order restored again.

As regards our crowds, even in the current climate, there is a market for entertainment in this country, and people are prepared to pay for it if the price is right, be it football, other sports, theatres, concerts, cinemas, nightclubs etc. Yes, the style of football isn't going to make your eyes water, but it's not supposed to. Everything our team does on the pitch now, is geared towards qualifying for Euro 2012. As long as we do that, nobody will care how entertaining it was.

**Jinxy** · 03/04/2011, 1:12 PM

Another reason why it's so important to qualify for the euros is the concentrated exposure the public gets to the team in a tournament setting.
We haven't had that in ages.

**Stuttgart88** · 03/04/2011, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by amaccann

I wouldn't count on rugby going away. I don't know if you watched the Munster / Leinster match, but Thomand Park was hopping; the atmosphere was amazing (speaking as an Ulsterman btw) and really puts the soccer crowds further in the shade. For a sport dismissed in this thread as being supported by women & accountants, Thomand was buzzing.

The so-called golden era of Rugby is over, but the crowds are staying put & the IRFU have built solid foundations for the provinces to continue being attractive for investment & competitive on the pitch. Amid the misery of our times, it's good to see homegrown franchises reaching out and becoming world-class. As I said before, the key has been building things up from community level. Local lads done good.

But anyway...

The reason why I posted the Irish Times article because to me it raised an interesting point. When you think of all the articles that have been printed about the Irish soccer team in the last 12 months, they have nearly all been inherently negative. Stephen Ireland, Jermaine Pennant, even the James McCarthy saga have all (in my mind) served to portray the sphere of Irish international soccer with an air of the soap opera. There must be more talk wasted on the latest fecking drama than on the football. Is this some sort of legacy of Saipan - that the Ireland team can't survive as a public entity without a persistent crisis?

I'm not trying to suggest there's one simple reason why fans are staying away, but when you consistently open the newspapers and read of the Ireland team treated as some kind of bloody melodrama, or worse - a budget England team - even a long time fan like myself is slow to care when the team actually gets a chance to run onto the pitch.

I'm actually not that concerned by rugby's rise and the likelihood that it will stay up there, to varying degrees. There's room for the 3 big sports in Ireland to co-exist.

Charlie D is bsolutely right when he says the situation is more complicated. It's a very nuanced situation.

The media coverage is certainly a factor. The consistent focus on Stephen Ireland when most regular Irish football team observers had put the whole issue to bed was representative of the press not really focusing on the right things. Most of us here had identified that central midfield was too soft, and that a ball winner rather than a wispish attacking midfielder was what was required. The James McCarthy hysteria was a further example. In The Indo's case I actually think there is a very real attempt to undermine the FAI & the national team.

One big factor that rugby has in its favour is that Irish journalists write about the main team's games because they're played in Ireland. Our international footballers play in England, so the Irish papers buy syndicated English press articles covering the EPL games. You could pick up an Irish paper on Monday and not have a rashers that Shane Long is in the form of his life. There's a feel-good among many of us at the moment because of Long, Walters, Duff, Wilson, Duffy etc.. It'd be nice to think that there's be a quarter page article in the main papers on Monday along these lines, but I'm not holding my breath. Rooney & Giggs will get far more coverage I expect.

Crowds have been up and down before in football, even since the game's profile increased massively under Jack. You have to earn the right to a meaningful game against a big team in the football. The rugby calendar and small number of teams means that there are big rugby games all the time, though hacks like Stephen Jones of The Sunday Times is of the belief that international rugby's stock is diminishing because of the frequency of games between the same teams.

The wealth generated by the big football leagues has pushed the profile and status of international football down. FIFA is quite keen to take on the clubs and they have my full support.

Sport in Europe exhibits a "pyramidal" structure. I think it's fair to say that the top of the pyramid in Irish rugby is in a far healthier state than that of Irish football, but that the bottom of the Irish football pyramid is far healthier than in rugby, and probably even the middle. 6,000 clubs in 96 leagues. Highest number of volunteers. Highest number of participants. Even the point about the pyramid is evidence of the "more complicated" nature of the argument.

**Jinxy** · 03/04/2011, 5:33 PM

Bob Casey had an article in the IT not so long ago talking about the drop in adult playing numbers in rugby.
You have to bear in mind that in general the media coverage of rugby in this country is a massive love-in which feeds the view that rugby is this juggernaut that is constantly gathering momentum.
In reality, I can't remember the last time I saw a kid walking around with a rugby ball under his arm.
I see plenty of kids carrying hurleys and footballs (soccer and gaelic) though around Dublin.
Even the massively hyped schools rugby scene paints a misleading picture.
Huge numbers of those kids stop playing altogether once they leave school.

**tetsujin1979** · 03/04/2011, 8:07 PM

Did any of the articles on the Munster - Leinster game mention that Leinster returned almost 4,000 tickets from their allocation?

**Stuttgart88** · 04/04/2011, 10:37 AM

Much more balanced view from Eamon Sweeney

**shakermaker1982** · 04/04/2011, 10:56 AM

If we qualify for Euro 2012 football will blow rugby out of the news for at least 6 months.

As long as young fellas (& girls) are still playing football and trying to be the next Duffer, Keano or Seamus Coleman then we'll be ok.

The lack of numbers at games is easily fixed if prices are reduced further. The FAI have made a start and I'm pleased that they've stopped bundling tickets. It shows that they are listening to the paying public.