How depressing is the seeding news?

**mypost** · 01/10/2009, 2:47 AM

What people haven't mentioned yet, is our ability to get into the first seeds ourselves. Do we think we should be there, despite failing everything we've entered for the last 6 years? We're 38th in the World, not 8th.

Assuming second seeds are home first, the away game will be a pain in the balls for travelling, but at least we'll know before the draw is made, that we can only get one from 4 teams rather than one from the lot of them.

**theworm2345** · 01/10/2009, 4:04 AM

Originally Posted by mypost

What people haven't mentioned yet, is our ability to get into the first seeds ourselves. Do we think we should be there, despite failing everything we've entered for the last 6 years? We're 38th in the World, not 8th.

Assuming second seeds are home first, the away game will be a pain in the balls for travelling, but at least we'll know before the draw is made, that we can only get one from 4 teams rather than one from the lot of them.

They said a separate draw will be held to determine where and when the matches are played.

After a FIFA meeting in Rio de Janeiro last night, Blatter confirmed to The Guardian newspaper: 'We have decided on seeding the teams into two groups of four, taking the Fifa world rankings into account, with the top four in one pot and the others in another pot.'

'There will be a separate draw to decide home and away,' he added of the two-leg ties to determine four European places at the 2010 finals in South Africa.

**jbyrne** · 01/10/2009, 7:52 AM

these play off draws are always fixed one way or another. at least this time they are being open about it and not going through the charade of a fixed "open" draw. its just up to us to wreck their plans to help the stonger countries (provided we get to the play offs)

**magnumpi** · 01/10/2009, 8:31 AM

what worries me is the lengths FIFA will go to, to ensure that the big teams get to S.A. Next stop....dodgy refereeing decisions going in the favour of "bigger" nations who faired badly in the first leg of a play-off.

conspiracy theory i know, but i don't trust that cnut blatter.

**the doc** · 01/10/2009, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by magnumpi

what worries me is the lengths FIFA will go to, to ensure that the big teams get to S.A. Next stop....dodgy refereeing decisions going in the favour of "bigger" nations who faired badly in the first leg of a play-off.

conspiracy theory i know, but i don't trust that cnut blatter.

I agree and it wouldn't suprise me if there were questionable refereeing decisions in favour of the so called bigger national teams

Nothing surprises me about FIFA, I remember reading about their alledged shady deals, Profiteerng, behind the scenes votes and vote buying, brown enevolpes etc, in a book called "Great Balls of Fire" How big money is hijacking world football.

It seems to me that Blatter is a law unto himself, with the likes of Platini following in the same manner.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 01/10/2009, 9:45 AM

Perhaps we should all take a leaf out of a certain gent's book and all start e-mailing/Phoning/petitioning FIFA If we get to SA, we'll all turn-up with our 10 grannies, or assorted friends/families and fill out every game, just because Ireland have qualified.....

Maybe it'd be enough to swing us an 'easier' draw??

**elroy** · 01/10/2009, 10:03 AM

The seedings play their part in the group process. So when a team does well and performs above their seeding ie in our case, we shouldnt get hammered with seedings again because some other teams in higher seeding havent done as well. Its downright wrong and there is no basis for it. Yes if the seeding suited us we wouldnt have a problem but there is no logical fair reasoning for this decision.
It should be an open draw, end of. If it had to be seeded playoffs, this shouldve been clearly communicated before the start of the groups not now. For whats its worth Im sending an email to Fifa, asking for an objective reasoning for this.

**eaststand85** · 01/10/2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by elroy

The seedings play their part in the group process. So when a team does well and performs above their seeding ie in our case, we shouldnt get hammered with seedings again because some other teams in higher seeding havent done as well. Its downright wrong and there is no basis for it. Yes if the seeding suited us we wouldnt have a problem but there is no logical fair reasoning for this decision.
It should be an open draw, end of. If it had to be seeded playoffs, this shouldve been clearly communicated before the start of the groups not now. For whats its worth Im sending an email to Fifa, asking for an objective reasoning for this.

Very well put, best way I've heard it explained yet.

All the best with your e-mail, let us know how you get on although unfortunately I reckon I see a PFO coming your way.

**NeilMcD** · 01/10/2009, 10:40 AM

Several of the groups, however, are still being hotly contested and in the event that Latvia overtook Greece to finish second in Group Two, Ireland would be bumped up to seed status as long as Latvia’s success wasn’t cancelled out by, amongst other more far-fetched possibilities, Portugal overhauling Sweden in Group One, the Czech Republic leapfrogging Slovenia in Group Three or Sweden finishing second but moving above Ireland in the World Ranking list to be published three days before the draw. The Swedes are currently three places and 20 points behind the Republic but made up 36 points on Trapattoni’s side in the most recently published table

in todays irish times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...255612139.html

**geysir** · 01/10/2009, 10:55 AM

The IT journalist is not referring to Edgar's list of most probable rankings.
To be in the top 4, most likely Ireland would have to win their 2 games or at least 4 points and Sweden Ukraine Slovenia to finish second place.

I guess the open draw for fixtures in the play off draw was a compromise of sorts towards the lobbying of the FAI etc.

**gspain** · 01/10/2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

The IT journalist is not referring to Edgar's list of most probable rankings.
To be in the top 4, most likely Ireland would have to win their 2 games or at least 4 points and Sweden Ukraine Slovenia to finish second place.

I guess the open draw for fixtures in the play off draw was a compromise of sorts towards the lobbying of the FAI etc.

Ukraine will have to beat England to get 2nd and sweden win in Denmark. Both will rise in the rankings too because of those results.

It is unlikely that even 2 wins will get us a seed.

Any chance Brian Kerr could do us a favour and beat France as they'd take a big hit in the FIFA rankings.

I'm sure the FAI still have the confirmation from FIFA that the draw would be unseeded and surely the document confirming this from the FIFA website that mysteriously disappeared from the site a few weeks back. However it doesn't mean anything as they can change their minds at will.

I don't think FIFA will try and influence referees however the referee will know FIFA want France in the finals and it will be tough to get 50-50 decisions or even blatant penalties at a crucial stage.

Best option is to draw Croatia as FIFA won't care who wins. I know they'd be very tough to beat but we'd have a good shot at them.

**shakermaker1982** · 01/10/2009, 11:18 AM

The issue should have been resolved at the start of the WC qualifying campaign. Announcing it now gives the impression that FIFA look like they are protecting the 'bigger' nations. Deep down we knew all along it would be seeded because if Germany got paired up with France and Slovenia got matched up with Bosnia FIFA would be missing out on serious tv revenue.

Bring on Portugal, France, Russia/Germany. If we can perform a mission impossible then all the better. We've taken big scalps before and can do it again.

**geysir** · 01/10/2009, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by gspain

Ukraine will have to beat England to get 2nd and sweden win in Denmark. Both will rise in the rankings too because of those results.

It is unlikely that even 2 wins will get us a seed.

Both of those teams are behind us before going into the last 2 games.
Unlikely, but Ireland beating Italy keeps us almost certainly well ahead of Sweden and gives us a very good chance of staying ahead of Ukraine.

The three unlikelys make it very very unlikely.

**gspain** · 01/10/2009, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

The issue should have been resolved at the start of the WC qualifying campaign. Announcing it now gives the impression that FIFA look like they are protecting the 'bigger' nations. Deep down we knew all along it would be seeded because if Germany got paired up with France and Slovenia got matched up with Bosnia FIFA would be missing out on serious tv revenue.

Bring on Portugal, France, Russia/Germany. If we can perform a mission impossible then all the better. We've taken big scalps before and can do it again.

It was resolved before the start of the campaign. Confirmed in writing and on the FIFA website. They've changed their minds.

Even if we beat Italy, Sweden beat Denmark and the Ukraine beat England and the Faroes beat France to move us ahead of France in the rankings FIFA still have time to decide how they will seed the draw. They could still use the September FIFA rankings if they had to.

**irishbaz** · 01/10/2009, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

I think it a disgrace too but I never go to the bother of reading a thread, never question what's written in a post, never try to understand the relevance of what's written in a post, never look for a supporting link to the main story and always believe any old nonsense, what's your excuse?

You appear to have made the mother of all assumptions here by inaccurately reading between the lines of my post and placing yourself on a pedestal made from paper i.e. not designed to support the intellectual weight of your argument. I did look around and UEFA have already set a clear president in pervious European and world cups which is further underpinned by Sepp Blatter. I also have spoken to football people around this subject prior to posting about how disgraceful the whole seeding scenario is. I see through some of your postings you have the ability to attempt to belittle people through assumptions and veiled rhetoric. So to put it in bite size chunks for you I did check it out, I am disgruntled and like every fan I am entitled to my viewpoint (right, wrong or indifferent). So to suggest ignorance on my behalf without being introspective would suggest that you are paddling that very canoe. I think I have explained my argument in other words don�t assume to be telepathic as your not!! Sorry for my late reply as it took me a week to put that togeather

**shakermaker1982** · 01/10/2009, 2:07 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

It was resolved before the start of the campaign. Confirmed in writing and on the FIFA website. They've changed their minds. .

Really? It was supposed to be an open draw? Any time I checked FIFA's site they had left it vague but that has only been last year or so. If true then that is disgraceful.

Originally Posted by gspain

Even if we beat Italy, Sweden beat Denmark and the Ukraine beat England and the Faroes beat France to move us ahead of France in the rankings FIFA still have time to decide how they will seed the draw. They could still use the September FIFA rankings if they had to.

Well if they try and use the September rankings then they really are a bunch of crooks.

**geysir** · 01/10/2009, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by irishbaz

I did look around and UEFA have already set a clear president in pervious European and world cups which is further underpinned by Sepp Blatter

.
UEFA? wtf have UEFA got to do with it?

I also have spoken to football people around this subject prior to posting about how disgraceful the whole seeding scenario is

.

And they told you that UEFA decided on the format for the WC play offs?
All UEFA did was announce the format for the 2012 draw.
But somehow, in this thread it was manifested into a seeding announcement for the WC qualifier play offs

**Crosby87** · 01/10/2009, 2:21 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

.

But somehow, in this thread it was manifested into a seeding announcement for the WC qualifier play offs

That might be my fault for starting the thread on a rare matter I am not educated on. I thought it would make a big difference but now i realize this is all moot. Even a random draw probably would have had us against a top team. Plus things like this sometimes work out for the best. And last, we could have finished first in the group, Italy havent been overwhelming and there would have been nothing any of the supposed fixers could have done about us winning. BUT we didnt so now we might have to beat a more polished soccer nation to get in. So, maybe we will or maybe not. And anyway its not like we will have to play Brazil. It is what it is. Good players should have games against good teams.

**irishbaz** · 01/10/2009, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

.
UEFA? wtf have UEFA got to do with it?

Sorry FIFA I have UEFA on the brain!!

.

And they told you that UEFA decided on the format for the WC play offs?
All UEFA did was announce the format for the 2012 draw.
But somehow, in this thread it was manifested into a seeding announcement for the WC qualifier play offs

No they said that this point should have been addressed prior to the qualifiers as opposed to us having this discussion, which in all honesty I think the point is for all true football fans is I have my hol request in because I want to be in South Africa and I want the draw to be fair to give us the best chance of being there, that�s why the mere fact that its being considered is gaoling