Calling anyone that edits on wikipedia or who has good sources of information!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I have restarted the argument over notability of League of Ireland players especially those from the times where many/most/(all?) clubs had gone fully professional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...sional_leagues

I added Ireland Premier Division as fully pro and they removed it citing that a general consensus should be found on the Talk Page first. So I have gone and removed Ireland from the list of "not fully professional top divisions" because I don't see any consensus on that either.

I noticed I've been fighting this fight for 7 years now - so don't hold your breathe. League of Ireland player articles continue to get deleted left right and centre even though there are BBC articles describing the league as fully pro and lots of sources quoting wages of 100,000 per year for a number of players. FIFA laws rule that professional contract is anyone that has signed a written contract and is paid above expenses incurred. PFAI have 200 and some professionals on their membership and by their rules a professional player seems to be any player earning > €100 per week. But GiantF****Snowman's definition of a professional wage is vague and undefined and although he hasnt a clue what constitutes a professional footballer he knows that League of Ireland doesn't cut it and he knows this without refuting any of the evidence put in front of him or without having a a clue what the average wage is.. While a throw away comment at the last paragraph of local newspaper in some foreign language that you know nobody has verified is enough to have the Polish 3rd tier accepted as a fully pro league.

You're fighting a losing battle.

The people you are arguing with are never going to accept when they are in the wrong.

They are on a power trip, pure and simple.

Making up for the complete and utter lack of control they have over their own lives, and on other people, by being power hungry keyboard warriors online.

It's the only thing that makes them feel special and gives them a sense of fulfilment.

Just let them have that small victory.

Who cares.

[davidatrb]

You're fighting a losing battle.

The people you are arguing with are never going to accept when they are in the wrong.

They are on a power trip, pure and simple.

Making up for the complete and utter lack of control they have over their own lives, and on other people, by being power hungry keyboard warriors online.

It's the only thing that makes them feel special and gives them a sense of fulfilment.

Just let them have that small victory.

Who cares.

I think you're right. I shouldn't care. It just makes me so mad how stubborn they are. I used to love adding information to the wiki. I love the wiki - its my source of knowledge and if I ever find information that is not on there I usually add it, so that next time I want to know it will be there.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I used to love contributing to Wikipedia but gave up, largely thanks to the kind of people you describe. That Snowman fella rings a bell.

[Charlie Darwin]

It might be worth an enterprising person who cared about the subject to set up a private LOI wiki. I'm not volunteering to do it, but I'm sure there'd be plenty who'd contribute.

[nigel-harps1954]

I created a full Wiki page for Ollie Horgan about a year ago. Took a fairly annoying to-and-fro battle to have it approved by them. Initially rejected three times due to a 'lack of sources' or something along those lines, I simply submitted it over and over again without any changes until it was eventually approved.

Quite often I'd find myself editing bits of information on Wiki. Sometimes, it's rather head-scratching to find some glaring inaccuracies on there. Just imagine, there's college students who copy and paste information from that site.

[Eminence Grise]

Christ! Don't remind me - they all start tomorrow. Lesson 1: plagiarism.

A LoI/Irish football wiki sounds like an interesting project.

[fionnsci]

Seeing this thread pop up brought back a lot of memories! Wikipedia used to be a hobby of mine but the characters that fight you on the most minor of details are suffocating. There are people on there with serious God complexes. I'll keep an eye out but I don't think I have the fight in me anymore.

[Louth4sam]

I used to love contributing to Wikipedia but gave up, largely thanks to the kind of people you describe. That Snowman fella rings a bell.

I updated a load of Dundalk players and a lot were just deleted. Very frustrating when you put the time and effort in to something and someone else deems it not worthy of inclusion. Pretty much didn't bother updating anything again

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Case in point: Dalian Atkinson dies. It is reported on broadcast news and several reputable news media sites. People edit his Wikipedia page in kind. Moderators delete citing "lack of sources". Even though said editors had included various sources reporting his death.

I thought that was rather amusing.

As someone said: "God complexes".

They probably lead very unhappy lives if virtually all their spare time is based around doing what they are doing.

I'm pretty sure Ayman Ben Mohamed had a Wikipedia page which I can no longer find.

I am also confused as to why there is no category for Irish footballers like there is with every other nationality be it: Northern Irish, English, French, Italian.

For example, there are categories for "association footballers from Northern Ireland."

There is no such category for Irish footballers unless you count: "Republic of Ireland association footballers."

That doesn't denote nationality at all. It denotes the country they have represented at football.

[gufcfan]

I updated a load of Dundalk players and a lot were just deleted. Very frustrating when you put the time and effort in to something and someone else deems it not worthy of inclusion. Pretty much didn't bother updating anything again

I did a lot of work a number of years ago and I still get an email every so often telling me something I added was deleted.

I wouldn't waste time trying to engage with them because they won't engage with you.

A private LOI wiki might be a good idea.

[pineapple stu]

How do you set up a private wiki?

(Presume this is the likes of the wikia pages?)

Would it be worth setting up and then there's plenty of people here who can add and try grow it for each club?

[gufcfan]

How do you set up a private wiki?

(Presume this is the likes of the wikia pages?)

I'd slow down a small bit and see what the different types offer before anyone goes ahead and does anything. Fragmenting the contributors before it even starts wouldn't be great.

[TheBoss]

How do you set up a private wiki?

(Presume this is the likes of the wikia pages?)

Would it be worth setting up and then there's plenty of people here who can add and try grow it for each club?

I think whats been suggested is to use wiki software like MediaWiki (which Wikipedia uses) as a new website.

[osarusan]

I created a full Wiki page for Ollie Horgan about a year ago. Took a fairly annoying to-and-fro battle to have it approved by them.

I am off to deface and otherwise wreck this wiki entry.

[Charlie Darwin]

I am off to deface and otherwise wreck this wiki entry.

Too late, Ollie's already beaten you to it.

[nigel-harps1954]

Too late, Ollie's already beaten you to it.

[total hoofball]

I'm another one who contributed alot of LOI related articles on Wikipedia up to a few years back but gave up due to the usual Nazi's

I don't think they just single out LOI for not being 'fully' professional, over half the clubs in the English Conference have full time squads and Wikipedia won't recognise any players who that level is the highest level they have played at.

LOI is a professional national league represented with player contracts and a union, whether you get paid €1,000 a week or €50 per week you are a professional.

I can't imagine them deleting all articles related to English League 2 clubs if someone like Notts County decided over night to pay players part-time

[BonnieShels]

I read that Stephen Roche edit thread. Jesus Christ that is mind-numbing. Fair dues to anyone who edits on wiki.

[davidatrb]

So I am on the Talk page and trying to build up a case for including League of Ireland as a fully pro league at least back in 2000-2005 when the Celtic Tiger was roaring and clubs were paying wages of 100,000+ and basically at least 3 times what ppl are getting now. Was there even a salary cap back then?

Anyway, fleshed out my points. Included numerous sources. Solid argument. Papered every crack, dotted every i. Spent a long time to get it right and comprehensive.

The reply from Mr Snowman?

TLDR.

That means "Too long, didn't read" for those not in the know! Nice eh?

I hear the idea about setting up a separate wiki, but don't know if that will attract the same level of contributions that a real wiki does. How will ppl even know about it? There is a hell of a lot of good articles on the main wiki too that we would lose or have to copy over - I don't know if media wiki software has any syncing functionality.

This whole fully professional thing is crazy. I gave examples of golf tournaments where amateurs compete in - does that mean that Rory McIlroy is not fully professional because he plays with amateurs?

I thought that 7 years ago I had some consensus that teams competing in the Europa League and Champions League were a professional level - but they seem to have backtracked from that as well now. Apparently Darren Fletcher became "notable" when he made his debut in the Champions League, but an Irish lad makes an appearance in a top European competition and the rules are different.

Now even getting paid a sufficient wage to be your sole source of employment isn't enough either. We have to prove that every player in the whole league trains full time as well.

The reference they have put up to prove that League of Ireland is not a professional league is total rubbish. Mentions that top teams must make do with 10 month contracts (ignoring the the implication here that they were on higher contracts before this). That's it? That really proves the league is not professional and never was? Where no amount of evidence can prove that it is? And by the way we were removed from the list of non professional countries before with the lad citing no consensus, but then when nobody was looking they slipped it back in where obviously there still is no consensus.

I know what you are all thinking. TLDR. Haha, I'm just having a rant.

[Dodge]

Signing in as another former wiki editor here. Way too many eejits looking to keep the numbers down for some reason I'll never understand