Potentially eligible players thread

[OwlsFan]

Watchable documentary on Wayne Rooney last night, if a bit too softly softly. Frequently mentions his grandparents but never in the context of them being Irish.

[DannyInvincible]

This relates to Grealish specifically but also provides an insight into O'Neill's approach to dual nationals and his thoughts on persuading such players to commit in light of being accused of demeaning our integrity by "traipsing after" Grealish by Eamonn Sweeney: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31585433.html

The Ireland manager has taken umbrage at suggestions that the FAI were humiliated by the Aston Villa winger, arguing that he gave the player space to make a decision as opposed to putting pressure on him to stay in the green jersey.

O'Neill is bemused by the reaction to Grealish's English call and criticism centred around the Irish reliance on players born outside the country.

"I never prostituted myself in any way, shape or form trying to get Jack Grealish," said O'Neill, when asked his reaction to last week's developments.

"I never chased it. I never chased Jack Grealish at all. I think Jack Grealish and his father would readily admit that. In fact, I've actually been accused of the other thing - of not chasing it up.

...

"Jack Grealish had a decision to make. Jack Grealish was born in England, his father was born in England and therefore he made a decision to play in England so that's it. It's absolutely and utterly his and his father's decision so it's fine because I left it in their hands."

The 63-year-old was informed of the youngster's verdict by his father Kevin and does not think that the input of agents was a factor in his choice. After Grealish turned down a call in the summer, a representative from the Stellar Group was present at a subsequent meeting between the protagonists.

"I had a very decent meeting with himself and his father and the agent was there as well at the same time. I don't think it (agent) was a factor at all.

"You'll have to make your mind up about this," continued O'Neill, "Whether, as some journalists are saying, you go and prostitute yourself about taking players who were not actually born in the country.

"Naturally, I would love if every single of one of these players were born and bred here but that may not necessarily be the case."

For what it's worth, I think Sweeney's article is poor. He makes a fair point in relation to our reliance on Irish nationals born outside of Ireland (even if he does seem to rather casually dismiss their personal feelings on Irish identity), which isn't ideal considering there's so much risk attached to it (as we saw from Grealish deciding to opt for England after years with us). As for his criticism of O'Neill's approach to Grealish, however, I think it's way off the mark. I think O'Neill handled it spot-on. He gave a young player time to make a difficult decision without exerting pressure; that's very reasonable. To accuse him of "whoring" himself is ridiculous; I never once got the impression that O'Neill was chasing after Grealish begging, so accusations of demeaning behaviour on O'Neill's part are misplaced. He also had a go at the FAI over the eligibility issue and seems to be in denial with regard to the agency of northern Irish nationals who opt to play for their country. Of course, the (intentional?) oversight of this fact logically enables him to accuse the FAI of "poaching/luring their promising young players/Catholics". He also accuses the FAI of having tried to persuade Jermaine Pennant to play for us. I thought Pennant was simply ignored when he voiced a sort of lukewarm interest, no?

[DannyInvincible]

Watchable documentary on Wayne Rooney last night, if a bit too softly softly. Frequently mentions his grandparents but never in the context of them being Irish.

It's on BBC iPlayer here, for anyone interested and with access: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...hind-the-goals

[paul_oshea]

It's funny how you can have a feeling of being on the exact same wavelength as a journalist and thinking they really are spot on and then they write something you completely disagree with and discredits the journalists themselves.

maybe he was stuck for a piece.

[Stuttgart88]

Sweeney is usually very good

[boovidge]

He makes a fair point in relation to our reliance on Irish nationals born outside of Ireland (even if he does seem to rather casually dismiss their personal feelings on Irish identity)

Which I found pretty insulting really. He could have written a decent article about how Ireland should be growing its domestic game instead of relying on the English system for players (Irish born or not) but instead went on a pathetic rant that undermined the good points he did make.

[DannyInvincible]

Which I found pretty insulting really. He could have written a decent article about how Ireland should be growing its domestic game instead of relying on the English system for players (Irish born or not) but instead went on a pathetic rant that undermined the good points he did make.

Completely agree. I wasn't remotely defending that aspect of what he wrote. I was overlooking it, because it's a pretty lame point. Maybe I phrased that badly. The fundamental basis of what he was saying had merit, but he went about it in completely the wrong manner. It's not necessary to denigrate the identity of second or third generation Irish or the identity and agency of northern-born Irish nationals in order to emphasise the point that our reliance on players who've been developed outside of the FAI's system is a major issue requiring attention.

[Irwin3]

That article by Sweeney is a disgrace. He is all over the place. He says that we all know it is wrong to pick players with one Irish grandparent, when Grealish has three, so it would be right to pick him?? He talks about Keown playing for England and puts words in his mouth 'an Englishman should play for England', when Keown's own son chose to play for Ireland?? He also laments the opportunities that Donegal-born Gary Doherty has taken from Irish players?? An absolute clown.

[Olé Olé]

That article by Sweeney is a disgrace. He is all over the place. He says that we all know it is wrong to pick players with one Irish grandparent, when Grealish has three, so it would be right to pick him?? He talks about Keown playing for England and puts words in his mouth 'an Englishman should play for England', when Keown's own son chose to play for Ireland?? He also laments the opportunities that Donegal-born Gary Doherty has taken from Irish players?? An absolute clown.

The points re Doherty and Keown really, really irked me as they just demonstrated appalling lack of knowledge and/or research which is inexcusable when going off on such a tirade.

Then there was the simplification of the players from the North playing for us are "Catholics" and "Northern Ireland's achievement is even more impressive when you consider that in recent years we've been poaching their players."

I also found this very insulting: "For most of our imports an Irish cap is nothing more than an admission of failure."

The most embarrassing pile of crap I've read in a long time from someone who I thought would know better. I'd love for DI to pen a response to this. There's ample material to use as foundation for arguing most of his points.

[boovidge]

Completely agree. I wasn't remotely defending that aspect of what he wrote. I was overlooking it, because it's a pretty lame point. Maybe I phrased that badly. The fundamental basis of what he was saying had merit, but he went about it in completely the wrong manner. It's not necessary to denigrate the identity of second or third generation Irish or the identity and agency of northern-born Irish nationals in order to emphasise the point that our reliance on players who've been developed outside of the FAI's system is a major issue requiring attention.

Sorry Danny, hope you don't think I was having a pop at you! It was the article that ****** me off, not what you said.

[DeLorean]

I'd love for DI to pen a response to this. There's ample material to use as foundation for arguing most of his points.

I usually enjoy Sweeney too to be honest but, yeah, go get him Danny!

[Deckydee]

Watchable documentary on Wayne Rooney last night, if a bit too softly softly. Frequently mentions his grandparents but never in the context of them being Irish.

Hi OwlsFan,

Despite this name, Rooneys Irish-Ancestry is very very weak and or as Woy would say tenuous. According to what I know, only ONE of this grandparents are actually Irish, just one (Patricia Fitzsimons) but that's it. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-26359427.html The other 3 I have never heard anything about, so its really grandparent and not grandparents for him anyway. Officially Rooney is a fifth-generation Irishman but that link, I cannot find.

If your such a brit, remove the irish/celtic cross mate. http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynami...000/214922.jpg

[Deckydee]

That article by Sweeney is a disgrace. He is all over the place. He says that we all know it is wrong to pick players with one Irish grandparent, when Grealish has three, so it would be right to pick him?? He talks about Keown playing for England and puts words in his mouth 'an Englishman should play for England', when Keown's own son chose to play for Ireland?? He also laments the opportunities that Donegal-born Gary Doherty has taken from Irish players?? An absolute clown.

This article is a DISGRACE. Never mind the whole article but his choice of words on Keown are wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Mr. Sweeney please have a look at the following article:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/the-...gland-1.270762

More importantly to Keown, having played for England at under-18 and under-21 level, he did not make his full debut until he was 26. "I could very easily have played for Ireland and at one stage efforts were made to try and switch to the Republic of Ireland. I thought, and the club felt, I'd have a better international chance. But the rules in those days were that if you played at under-18 level then that was that. The decision was made very young."

That ceiling was then raised by FIFA to under-21 level, but only after Keown had played it. If there is any Keown regret today it is well-buried - he has, after all, won 28 England caps - but in that fallow spell before his first senior appearance against France in 1992, Keown wondered about the injustice of having to choose so early.

"Between the ages of 21 and 26, in those five years I never played international football, and in that period Jackie Charlton tried to get me to play for them, to lift the ruling. Before I played for the under-21s I put a brake on it because I thought I could play for the Republic. Then they (FIFA) said I couldn't, then they changed the rules.

Not to mention this: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31054134.html

[Lionel Ritchie]

A very poor article by any standard. A phoned in piece of claptrap by the standards ES has set himself. Poorly researched, demanding black and white where grey is prevalent, a one dimensional poorly informed slant on the north-south dynamic in which he does everything wrong but mention the GFA.

Has he an interview coming up for The Sunday World or something?

[DannyInvincible]

I usually enjoy Sweeney too to be honest but, yeah, go get him Danny!

The most embarrassing pile of crap I've read in a long time from someone who I thought would know better. I'd love for DI to pen a response to this. There's ample material to use as foundation for arguing most of his points.

I've put something together for yous: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com...amonn-sweeney/

Let me know if there's anything I've overlooked or could articulate better!

[tetsujin1979]

Noticed that comments have been disabled on Sweeney's article, and the comments that were there have been removed.

[Olé Olé]

I've put something together for yous: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com...amonn-sweeney/

Let me know if there's anything I've overlooked or could articulate better!

Nothing overlooked. Hit all the points I could identify but wouldn't be able to articulate or explore as well as you. Brilliant stuff.

Loved the parallel with the Algerian national side. Here's a quick breakdown of the squad by birth:
GK
3 of their 4 goalkeepers born in Algeria, one in France
DF
Carl Medjani- Born in France and played for them until under- 21
Faouzi Ghoulam- Born in France and played for them until under-21. Plays for Napoli now so could be expected to be close to/in the France squad
Of the rest, 5 are Algerian-born and 2 are French-born
MF
Feghouli, Brahimi, Taider and Mahrez are all cracking players that were born in France. Taider's career has regressed but the other 3 could reasonably be expect to be selected by France and probably would be.
Of the rest of the midfielders in the squad, all 4 were born in France too
FW
Slimani and Belfodil are the best-known here with both being born in Algeria. However, Belfodil played underage for France.
The other 3 were born in Algeria also.

So, that's 13 players born in Algeria and 13 born in France but not one of the midfielders was born in Algeria and Brahimi and Mahrez are, at present, their best players, I would imagine.

[gastric]

To accommodate Stu, putting this article on Crowley here. It seems Crowley might be a bit on the arrogant side and I read somewhere in the last few days that he can be difficult to work with. Should get on really well then with our assistant manager.


http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...ring-1.2385850

[SkStu]

Interesting that he remains pretty non committal to either side. He's with England, would be very easy for him to use that to make this go away if his mind is made up. Even the "well I'm with the England u19s now, just want to do well with them and focus on getting time at Barnsley/Arsenal" line could have closed the door (while maybe leaving it unlocked).

[Olé Olé]

This one could run on. Grealish waited until he had established himself at Villa before switching to England. Crowley is, similarly, stating a desire to focus on getting his game at club level. As we can remember, Grealish was happy to play for us while with Notts County- a similar position to Crowley on loan at Barnsley in League One.

I guess it's good that contact has been initiated and he seems non-committal. I'll be delighted if this lad ends up representing us. Would be a reminder to some of the cynics (e.g. Eamon Sweeney) that some of the disapora actually do give a damn.