Two British soldiers shot dead in Antrim..

[TheBoss]

I'm just watching Prime Minister's Questions on BBC - the British just don't get it do they..? Britain this, our country that. The dissidents lap up the kind of language they are using.. It is this kind of language that gives support to the extremes. Just look at how Scottish nationalism is on the rise at the same time as Gordon Brown espouses the UK as 'one country' and British as a 'national identity'..

But he is right, United Kingdom is a country, Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland are not nations, they are part of the one identity. They are just areas, like the provinces in Ireland.

[pete]

I'm just watching Prime Minister's Questions on BBC - the British just don't get it do they..? Britain this, our country that. The dissidents lap up the kind of language they are using.. It is this kind of language that gives support to the extremes. Just look at how Scottish nationalism is on the rise at the same time as Gordon Brown espouses the UK as 'one country' and British as a 'national identity'..

Do words force someone to murder? Does it make any difference to you?

[holidaysong]

But he is right, United Kingdom is a country, Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland are not nations, they are part of the one identity. They are just areas, like the provinces in Ireland.

Wrong. Most people living in Wales, Scotland and England have their own national identity rather than a British one. Search Google for Moreno scale data on national identities for each of these countries for evidence of this.

Do words force someone to murder? Does it make any difference to you?

Of course words don't force someone to murder but ignoring minority identities alienates the people in those groups. Increased alienation leads to a greater chance of using violence to assert their identity.

It makes a difference to me in so far as I'm currently doing a masters on theories of nationalism and ethnic violence, focusing on Northern Ireland.

[shantykelly]

Do words force someone to murder? Does it make any difference to you?

no they dont force someone to murder, but as we've seen int he north for so many years, words DO have a powerful effect, especially emotional, virulent rhetoric aimed at people who fear what they neither know nor understand.

[Gather round]

The IRA & Sinn Fein members by extension must have an idea who is involved. They surely know who uns the RIRA as presumably they were in the IRA at some stage before breaking away

Sinn Fein's leaders- like the DUP, the PSNI and the British Govt. know who runs the RIRA and CIRA, even if not yet who pulled the triggers. Basically because all the 'mainstream' paramilitaries have been infiltrated for years.

There is no change in Republican thinking in regards to civilian workers for the Crown forces, its just the likes of Adams would have you believe things were so different back then. For militant republicans the only thing that has changed is former republicans are now administering British rule in a Northern Irish assembly when down the road sits a British Army barracks

Noted you prefer not to offer your own opinion, but surely republican thinking has changed- unless you think the non-militant, Sinn Fein leadership aren't republicans any more?

I'm just watching Prime Minister's Questions on BBC - the British just don't get it do they..? Britain this, our country that. The dissidents lap up the kind of language they are using.. It is this kind of language that gives support to the extremes

You can hardly be surprised that the British parliament describing paramilitary murders of British citizens in Britain reacts thus. The reaction wouldn't have been different had the murders been in, say, Roermond or Gibraltar. I very much doubt that paramilitaries are much influenced by ranting British politicians, let alone expressions of horror (however predictable) after murders.

Just look at how Scottish nationalism is on the rise at the same time as Gordon Brown espouses the UK as 'one country' and British as a 'national identity'...

British unionist politicians (by which I mean almost all those in England, Scotland and Wales who don't support SNP and Plaid Cymru, as well as the Ulster variety) have been talking up a Brit national identity for decades (centuries). Yet support for Scottish independence fluctuates a lot (and has fallen significantly since the Icelandic economy collapsed), while in Wales it's never been a runner. I wouldn't read anything into Gordy's slogans.

I don't think they'll succeed. There's almost zero popular support for terrorism in Ireland at this stage, and that's the only thing that allowed the IRA to continue so long

Even allowing for tacit support from DUP and UUP politicians, and some collusion from the British Army, the UDA and UVF ran a paramilitary campaign for decades without any real electoral backing.

[ArdeeBhoy]

But he is right, United Kingdom is a country, Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland are not nations, they are part of the one identity. They are just areas, like the provinces in Ireland.

Hmm, this is the same crowd who've spent a lot of time just bickering over whether there should be a tinpot GB football team (as in the Scots, Welsh & N.E. Ulster don't want it), which in the strict geographical sense wouldn't even include the North......

If they're not a seperate member of the U.N., I'd say that makes them pretty fortunate to have their own side, when areas like Kashmir, Kurdistan & the Basque Country, for instance, all have more credible rights to exist?