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Thread: Comparison of Irish clubs in Europe versus Scottish clubs in Europe

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    Coach tiktok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever View Post
    Pittodrie is a sh!thole of a ground. Freezing cold all year round, and full of seagull cr@p
    Full of Seagull crap? It gets more like the Carlisle grounds with every post.

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    Good chance SPL could lose auto CL place in a couple of years if overtaken by a few countries. SPL teams have poor record of negotiating the qualifying rounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim till i die View Post
    On the facilities thing.

    Is Pittodrie for example, really that much more comfortable for watching a match than Turners Cross is??
    Having been a season ticket holder in the past at Pittodrie and currently one at TC I can safely say Pittodrie is a far superior ground and that no LOI ground is better than any of the SPL grounds. (the atmosphere however at Pittodrie isn't as good as the box).

    Even taking out the old firm the SPL (and notwithstanding the recent European results) is clearly of a higher standard - it stands to reason - they have a captive market - with less interest in the Premiership than here (though it is substantial) - no GAA/Munster rugby to compete with - long tradition with much bigger media infrastructure etc. It would often be the case that the combined total crowds at the LOI of a Friday night would approximate to one big gate at Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen (& not inlcuding the Old Firm) - saying that they seem to have the same ol mal administration etc etc as we do but all in all it is a bigger league - bigger crowds - better players - better standard (doesn't rock my boat as much as the LOI though!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Having been a season ticket holder in the past at Pittodrie and currently one at TC I can safely say Pittodrie is a far superior ground and that no LOI ground is better than any of the SPL grounds. (the atmosphere however at Pittodrie isn't as good as the box).

    Even taking out the old firm the SPL (and notwithstanding the recent European results) is clearly of a higher standard - it stands to reason - they have a captive market - with less interest in the Premiership than here (though it is substantial) - no GAA/Munster rugby to compete with - long tradition with much bigger media infrastructure etc. It would often be the case that the combined total crowds at the LOI of a Friday night would approximate to one big gate at Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen (& not inlcuding the Old Firm) - saying that they seem to have the same ol mal administration etc etc as we do but all in all it is a bigger league - bigger crowds - better players - better standard (doesn't rock my boat as much as the LOI though!).
    Take the Old Firm out of the SPL and within a few seasons that league wouldn't be much better then the LOI. As it stands the top few teams here would hold their own in the SPL. It's not a very good league.

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    Stats Man TheBoss's Avatar
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    The only way to settle this, is by putting the SPL sides into the Setanta Cup

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    Seasoned Pro gspain's Avatar
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    I've no doubt that Celtic and Rangers are well ahead of our league.

    I think otherwise our top teams would be very competitive with the middle order of the Scottish premier.

    Hibs were stuffed home and away by Elfsborg this summer for example. Pats beat them at home and drew away.

    Gretna's defeat by Derry is still a record home defeat for Scottish sides in Europe.

    However we don't have the facilities of the middle order Scottish sides. I've been to grounds like Airdrie and Falkirk in recent years and they have facilities far ahead of our league. I know there are bad grounds too but by and large their grounds are well ahead of ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim till i die View Post
    Using the European exploits of Irish clubs which grossly overspent to achieve said exploits as a barometer for the standard of the League of Ireland is every bit as silly as using Gretna as a barometer for the state of the SPL
    Real Madrid are in debt to a tune of 160 million pounds. Hmmm... looks like they've overspent to achieve success in Europe too. It's not uncommon. Best way to judge this is results on the pitch. LOI is obviously not as far behind Scotland as it once was.
    Last edited by A face; 28/11/2008 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Fixed quotes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram72 View Post
    Take the Old Firm out of the SPL and within a few seasons that league wouldn't be much better then the LOI. As it stands the top few teams here would hold their own in the SPL. It's not a very good league.
    I wouldn't agree with you at all - there is pretty much the same population as the island of Ireland - there is no GAA (so where here every own and village has a GAA club there there is a local football club) - rugby isn't as popular as here - the fixation on the Premiership isn't as much as here - they are football mad and have been consistently since the 19th century (more urbanised and industrialised historically) - the facilities are far better accross the board- the media interest is a factor of ten more than here. Even taking out the old firm there is much more support - much more money - much more local players than here - ergo it is of a better standard (nothwithstanding individual results in Europe - taken over the long term they are much more successful inlcuding winning trophies and not just the old firm) . As regards the Old Firm the remarkable thing is that how the other clubs have persisted even though it is quite clear they haven't a chance of winning anything (Hibs brought hundreds of supporters over to Cork a few years ago for a friendly (as regards recent results in Europe - we have punched above weight they have mucked it up). Personally I prefer the LOI but I often think we say these things about other leagues (the Irish League comes to mind) just to make ourselves feel better - it doesn't make it true.
    Last edited by Northern Light; 28/11/2008 at 1:16 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoss View Post
    The only way to settle this, is by putting the SPL sides into the Setanta Cup
    That might actually be worthwhile, if they'd be willing. It'd up the competition and the interest. Might even pique the interest of a few bhoys in the LoI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John83 View Post
    That might actually be worthwhile, if they'd be willing. It'd up the competition and the interest. Might even pique the interest of a few bhoys in the LoI.
    Celtic and Rangers wouldn't touch it with UCD's, and I can't see why the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc. would be bothered either to be honest

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    Quote Originally Posted by jebus View Post
    Celtic and Rangers wouldn't touch it with UCD's, and I can't see why the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc. would be bothered either to be honest
    I meant excluding the old firm. There'd just be no point including them. You're right though, it'd be hard to sell the other teams on it.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightstory View Post
    Real Madrid are in debt to a tune of 160 million pounds. Hmmm... looks like they've overspent to achieve success in Europe too.
    You honestly can't see the difference??
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    Comparing European results between leagues is always tricky as teams enter at different stages, but just look at last year. Aberdeen reached the last 16 of the UEFA Cup, beating Copenhagen 4-0 and drawing with Bayern Munich at Pittodrie, and Rangers reached the final. OK, this year has been the other extreme with Scottish clubs doing very, very badly, but seriously, what's the best result an Irish side has achieved in Europe in recent years? None of them have made even the group stages of a European club competition. I don't mean to sound disrespectful but there is a clear gulf in class between the Irish and Scottish leagues in my view. I'd say the Eircom League is closer in quality to the Welsh Premier than the SPL, I'm sure you'll all love me for saying that
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    Actually according to the UEFA ranking system we are virtually halfway between scotland and wales ( and thats with with the old firm included). From next season we close the gap to scotland even more. Take away celtic and Rangers and theres not a huge difference as results have shown. You mention Aberdeen - Bohs knocked Aberdeen out of europe a few seasons ago despite playing more than one half of one of the legs with only ten men.

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    It's all relative though. Welsh teams have beaten Irish ones in Europe the past too, as I'm sure Longford Town fans would tell you. There's also the summer football factor which unquestionably gives Irish teams an advantage in Europe compared to Welsh and Scottish ones, yet the Scots are still significantly ahead of you guys. According to wikipedia the Welsh coefficient is 2.331, ROI 7.332 and Scotland 33.375. There are a total of 25 places between Scotland and Ireland and only 11 between Ireland and Wales. In no way does that make Ireland halfway between Scotland and Wales.

    I'm not sure I really accept the whole 'take away the Old Firm' argument either. Yes, they're atypical of the SPL, but so are the top teams in every league. I'm sure if you took away the top 4 Premier League teams England's record in Europe would not be as great. Similarly the top 3 in Spain or Italy. You can't leave out the Old Firm just because they're atypical.
    Last edited by Cymro; 01/12/2008 at 5:16 PM.
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Worth noting as well that the top teams in the League of Ireland have had to bankrupt themselves to get where they are now. While I'm sure there's money problems in Scotland, you don't have half the league giving out wage cuts, reigning champions going broke three years in a row, etc. Form next year, the gap will start to grow noticeably again.

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    yeah like elfsburg.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jebus View Post
    Celtic and Rangers wouldn't touch it with UCD's, and I can't see why the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc. would be bothered either to be honest
    the Scottish clubs not competing in Europe maybe who would be between 6th-9th who would have been hibs, falkirk, hearts and Inverness ct.

    Inverness would be a long trip from cork
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Having been a season ticket holder in the past at Pittodrie and currently one at TC I can safely say Pittodrie is a far superior ground and that no LOI ground is better than any of the SPL grounds. (the atmosphere however at Pittodrie isn't as good as the box).
    i would think turners cross would be up to spl standard at this stage (unless capacity is too small) bar that i would agree with you on the facilities
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    The improvements to Turners Cross have been great and it is the best we have got in the league - nonetheless it is second rate (in terms of facilities) - I'm not bitchin about it - I love the place but an inpartial comparison to truly modern facilities would say that for a modern stadium - the seats are cramped - the main stand only gives partial protection from the rain, the accesses are too constrained and the facilities for supporters are pretty shabby (oh and the new shed leaks).

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