Another Nordie thread

[geysir]

Whilst I don't mind debating such issues with the likes of Third Policeman and Co.Down Green etc, I find you a complete waste of time.

There is nothing to debate.
A sincere retraction will do. Until that time, your interference with my written word and presenting it as a quote in order to bolster up a baseless accusation will be regarded as a devious but vain action

[EalingGreen]

To put the record straight over the Milk Cup incident, I can't find the actual link, but this is what was reported on a Shamrock Rovers site at the time:

"im up here now in the milk cup with rovers 17s. i was talkin to a few cherry orchard and crumlin lads and they said that the orchard lads were shouting out up the ra to protestant people in the nearby estate.they also had Celtic and Ireland flags hanging out of there windows.both teams are now staying in hotels nearby."

I have to say, this has a ring of truth to it, since it would explain how these the Orchard lads came to the attention of their neighbours at 10 pm on a Monday night, far away from the actual tournament itself.

But I repeat, whether the flags and the Ra chants occurred or not, it in no way justifies such a disgraceful attack on them (as I indicated when describing the lads' apparent behaviour as "tolerable enough" and their assailants as "scum")

Anyhow, when originally replying to Bennocelt's request for more information on this incident, I gave a brief summary, which I stand by.

However, I do regret one thing, namely even bothering to respond, since I am still at a loss to know what this deplorable incident has got to do with the "November" play, the NI team, or our fans.

Frankly, had this involved e.g. a Geography Field Trip to the Giant's Causeway by a group of Dublin schoolboys, the incident is just as likely to have happened and would be just as despicable. In fact, the only difference is that it would have been harder to use as a stick with which to beat NI football fans. Again.

[kingdomkerry]

Do you ever get off the internet. Id say half the posts on this thread are yours. You need to get a life!

[geysir]

It gets better and better, Ealing Green only regrets one thing, that is, "bothering to respond".
How about regretting to neglect to mention in your post that the source of your information was someone else who said it came from the SR Ultra web site.

It appears he believes everybody must have done something wrong in order to be at the brunt of sectarian abuse, be it the Republic team, the Dublin kids, probably Mary McAleese as well when she was in Coleraine.

[co. down green]

To put the record straight over the Milk Cup incident, I can't find the actual link, but this is what was reported on a Shamrock Rovers site at the time

Where did you cut and paste it from if you couldn’t find the link?

Wishful thinking on your part. O'Neill and Jennings, interviewed after a commemorative dinner in Dublin, when they weren't going to want to say anything too controversial to embarrass their hosts)?

,

Or perhaps their playing days at Windsor Park were tarnished by their memories of being bombarded by sectarian taunts from their own fans.

For decades, in the face of truly awful sectarian behaviour at Windsor Park, much of it directed at many of the past Northern stars who were Catholic, the IFA did nothing. Nor indeed did Linfield, who were happy down the years to accept the title of `the Protestant club for Protestant supporters'.

Among those targeted in the worst days at Windsor Park was perhaps the greatest Irish soccer goalkeeper of all time, Pat Jennings, and later the current Celtic manager, Martin O'Neill -- even when he was the Northern Ireland captain. Indeed, who better to understand Neil Lennon's dilemma when he returned to Parkhead last week then his own manager?

[mypost]

Or the most recent (RoI 0-1 NI) game?

That wasn't a "game", that was a charity kickabout, albeit for a good cause. Up there as a result, in importance with testimonials.

The most recent serious game finished 1-1 in 1995.

[paul_oshea]

KK I think he took your advice and got a life...for a while at least

In fairness to EG, the milk cup incident hasn't really anything to do with the title, but we digressed as generally happens in forums on the internet, its like a mind map almost though on this thread. EG, though, if you didn't care for it, there was one simple response and none of the last 15 or so posts would have been necessary, and that response was, "what happened in the the milk cup was wrong, under any circumstance". You chose to defend it ( the funniest thing is that you didn't really agree with yourself deep down defending it I beleive ), knowing there was nothing to gain from it, but felt it somewhat reflected your own character/personality, by parking the blame at what caused the problem, and that "cause" being the school kids.

Anyway, 5 degrees of kevin bacon, perhaps Marie Jones knows someone in the said estate

[Den Perry]

Anyhow, since the FAI unilaterally tore up the Gentleman's Agreement with the IFA not to pick players from each others territory, I now have no affinity to the ROI team.
I can only regret that this happened to him, and also that some so-called Loyalist might have been depriving NI of a future international, for all he knew.
Anyhow, at least it could be argued that the lad in question has a legitimate excuse for not following NI. Shame, really, especially since if he could be persuaded to give us another chance and actually attend a game, he would see that he could do so without fear of being similarly abused these days.

Erm....both my nephew and I are from the south of the border..he played in Milk Cup with a Dublin club.....and you're trying to poach him for NI..hypocrite lol!!

[EalingGreen]

. EG, though, if you didn't care for it, there was one simple response and none of the last 15 or so posts would have been necessary, and that response was, "what happened in the the milk cup was wrong, under any circumstance".

I have absolutely no problem in putting my name to the following statement:
"What happened in Coleraine* was wrong under any circumstance". Nor has anything I've posted contradict such a Statement. But if some people misconstrue what I post, perhaps out of prejudice against me and what I believe, then there's little I can (easily) do about that.

* - I've inserted "Coleraine" since the actual incident occurred miles from the Milk Cup, long after the day,s play had finished and whose only MC involvement followed MC Officials arriving to defend the Dublin teams and re-accommodate them. The competition does not deserve to be tarnished in this way.

. You chose to defend it

Please quote where I defended the attackers, or what they did? Or even where I blamed the Dublin lads for provoking it.

[aidz1]

EG

Should you not be in slovenia

[EalingGreen]

EG

Should you not be in slovenia

What makes you think I might not be? Or haven't you ever wondered about the "World" part of the World Wide Web?

As it happens, I'm in Chicago (don't ask, long story), but I've found a Pub which is showing the game, so I'll be in Maribor in spirit.

[aidz1]

What makes you think I might not be? Or haven't you ever wondered about the "World" part of the World Wide Web?

As it happens, I'm in Chicago (don't ask, long story), but I've found a Pub which is showing the game, so I'll be in Maribor in spirit.

eh...cos it would be quite sad to be writing on here while on a NI trip abroad

[theworm2345]

As it happens, I'm in Chicago (don't ask, long story), but I've found a Pub which is showing the game, so I'll be in Maribor in spirit.

You lucky ******* Where are you watching? Fado? Gingers? The Globe? You may run into Fergie's Son there, I'll probably watch on my computer

[Fergie's Son]

What makes you think I might not be? Or haven't you ever wondered about the "World" part of the World Wide Web?

As it happens, I'm in Chicago (don't ask, long story), but I've found a Pub which is showing the game, so I'll be in Maribor in spirit.

Which pub are you going to watch it in? Few good ones around. I'll be in Fado on Grand and Clark on Wednesday for the Ireland/Cyprus match.

[third policeman]

Hi EG. Very best of luck against Slovenia. Hope you forget about Gibson and reciprocate. Hope you are enjoying Chicago.

[geysir]

I have absolutely no problem in putting my name to the following statement:
"What happened in Coleraine* was wrong under any circumstance". Nor has anything I've posted contradict such a Statement. But if some people misconstrue what I post, perhaps out of prejudice against me and what I believe, then there's little I can (easily) do about that.

------
Please quote where I defended the attackers, or what they did? Or even where I blamed the Dublin lads for provoking it.

Lets examine what you wrote seeing as you are persisting with defending what could be perceived as a level of mudslinging.
You stated as fact
"some of them hung Tricolours out their windows one evening"
and then suggested
"may even have sung some "party tunes"."
And went on to write
"Now whilst such behaviour ought to be tolerable enough, they were naive (imo) for not realising that this might cause a row with their neighbours"

If it was fact or fiction, you have no source for that info, not newspaper, eyewitness or police.
Your only source is someone who said it was someone who said it was an ultra keyboard warrior.

That might pass for believable standard of debate on the OWC board.
If we adopted that standard here,
then any idiot could easily write that those kids were attacked by a group of NI fans wearing NI shirts brandishing Union Jacks and may have even chanted Greysteel Greysteel, based on a post written in a discussion board in China.

Closer to home, we have the Derry Journal reports of the Linfield mob at Brandywell recently.
That there was a group of (say 50?) Linfield fans chanting Greysteel.

It is not in cloud cuckoo land to believe that 25 years ago there was also a group of spectators who shouted out Greysteel and Trick or Treat and could be heard when the team came out and could be heard when the Sash was being sung, as reported by eyewitnesses.
But no, nobody heard Greysteel 7 Ireland Nil.

[third policeman]

Just watching NI v Slovenia. No doubt you will argue (EG and Gather Round) that "Rule Brittania" is not a sectarian chant, and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with this essentially harmless patriotic ditty. However, it seems strange that the supporters of other British nations (ie Scotland and Wales) dont seem to have this one in their repetoire. But then maybe their singing is directed at encouraging their team rather than asserting a highly divisive and provocative political proposition.

[cheifo]

Hmmmmm...so a night in November is not worth seeing then?

[Paddy Garcia]

Had you asked me that question a few years ago, I'd happily have said ROI.

Anyhow, since the FAI unilaterally tore up the Gentleman's Agreement with the IFA not to pick players from each others territory, I now have no affinity to the ROI team. I'm not saying I actively want to see them beaten, but I'm not bothered when they lose. Indeed, when sitting in an Irish bar in Copenhagen a couple of years back, severely hungover after a hard-fought draw, I laughed as loudly as anyone when the TV showed the goals from the Cyprus v ROI game. (Curiously enough, none of the Bar Staff saw the funny side as we all sang "One Team in Ireland")

I'm sorry that you seem so bitter, perhaps its inevitable. I do hope the Irish fans don't end up the same though. It would be great if you could put these feelings behind you.

Funnily enough, the thugs referred to in these posts never really cause that much hatred. They are seen for what they are and thankfully readily dismissed.

[Gather round]

Just watching NI v Slovenia. No doubt you will argue (EG and Gather Round) that "Rule Brittania" is not a sectarian chant, and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with this essentially harmless patriotic ditty. However, it seems strange that the supporters of other British nations (ie Scotland and Wales) dont seem to have this one in their repetoire. But then maybe their singing is directed at encouraging their team rather than asserting a highly divisive and provocative political proposition.

Aye, I'd agree it was harmless and a laugh with maybe some self-parody thrown in.

It's hardly strange that Scottish and Welsh fans don't sing it. They're less appreciative of irony than we are

I'd recommend a visit to Slovenia- friendly locals, breathtaking scenery, nice little stadium close to full. One slight caveat- if ye're in Bar Blef by Ljubljana's Triple Bridge after last orders, steer clear of a Bosnian guy called Fouad. He'll buy ye drinks, but only if ye agree to help him cut off Doanld Rumsfeld and the other neo-cons' cocks. Last seen staggering uphill to the castle saying he was off to Chechnya.