Drogs vs Kiev the match part

[barney]

'Drogs, at times, played like schoolboys and, to me, that's down to bad coaching'.

Great! So it's just bad coaching. Get in Jose Mourinho and Drogs can win the Champions' League.

Even by the standards of Foot.ie, Barney, your post reaches new depths of mean spiritedness, gracelessness, vindictiveness, begrudgery, spitefulness, small mindedness and petty abuse. Why do you go and watch a 'standard of football' which you obviously despise? I can only presume you're a GAA bigot in disguise.

By the way, Kiev might have had 22 shots at goal, but only 8 were on target (due to some heroic blocking efforts by Gatland and Ewing, who should be given some credit). Drogheda had 5 shots on target and managed 48 per cent of the possession... and lost by a margin of ONE goal.

Oh my….

Begrudgery? Could you tell me how I'm begrudging Drogheda anything when I was there supporting them? Could you tell me how I'm being vindictive? Drogheda have done nothing to me and I have no inclination to get any sort of revenge on them. No neutral was happier than me when they beat Talinn.

Obviously there is a ceiling to what any side can achieve so Mourinho wouldn't win them the CL. You're deliberately missing my point. Drogheda didn't do many of the basics right the other night and that's indicitive of eircom League football. You can get defensive and stick your head in the sand and pretend we are on the right road. Like the ceiling I spoke about earlier in relation to coaches, there is a ceiling you will hit playing like Drogs did on Tuesday. If we want to eventually progress to the group stages or look like we could, we need our sides doing the basics better. If they don't, we will continue to see people supporting the English sides and languish where we are.

I don't despise the EL at all. I am a season ticket holder and contribute to my local club. I love going to the games and watching the team from my town play senior football. There are some harsh realities that have to be faced though and saying "Drogheda lost 2-1 so they were unlucky and put up a good fight. Well done to them" is not good enough in my book.

BTW I've no affiliation or affinity for the GAA. Interesting to see you made that assumption though.

[pineapple stu]

I'm confused. So because Drogheda were beaten by a vastly superior side, we should all give up the ghost?

Should all football fans just follow Man U or Real then?

Or do you have any sort of idea what being a football fan is about?

[paul_oshea]

Or the level of players. Without being unkind, we simply aren't as good as Kiev. Drogheda played as well as could be expevcted but the fact is they aren't good enough. No disgrace, and no real need for tribunals to find out why. The best team in Ireland (last year by a stretch) but not a top class european side. Anyone who was embarressed by that performance is either an idiot or detached from reality. Possibly both

EL supporters?! No way :shocked:

[barney]

I'm confused. So because Drogheda were beaten by a vastly superior side, we should all give up the ghost?

Is that what I said?

[TheBoss]

People can be too harsh at times, Drogheda got the best possible result they could of hoped for, nothing really more you can say.

[Sheridan]

EL supporters?! No way :shocked:

Except that idiotic quip doesn't ***king work on any level in the context of the post it was quoting, does it? Why not read the post instead of trying to be clever (never a good idea.)

[pineapple stu]

I'm confused. So because Drogheda were beaten by a vastly superior side, we should all give up the ghost?

Is that what I said?

I don't know; that's why I said I was confused.

Should we be expecting to match Kiev technically? Should we only be happy if the result is indiciative of the gap between the teams? Should we be embarrassed if the result is more than was possibly deserved? Do you think no other team in history has managed a late defeat when possibly they deserved to lose 3-0 or so?

I really don't know how you can think a 2-1 defeat against a team in the CL group stages ten times of the past 11 isn't a good result. Everyone knows Drogs are limited in the world view, everyone knows Doolin is a rubbish manager in the eL view, but ultimately, Kiev couldn't score more than the two and needed a last minute winner, so it's a good result compared to what was expected.

[passinginterest]

I think barney makes a few valid points about the style of play and standard of coaching in Ireland. At almost every level of the game her emphasis is place on pressurising the ball, making hard tackles, getting forward quickly, not passing in the back four. The continental style seems to place more emphasis on passing, ball retention and creating chances through individual skill and stretching defences by passing the ball from one side of the pitch to the other. Coaching kids to be more comfortable on the ball, more patient and more expressive couldn't be a bad thing. I think the changes are being made, although the emphasis on winning matches is still too much in the younger age groups.

It's quite impressive that Drogheda had 48% of the possession and that chances on target was 5 - 8. Kiev had a load of pot shots that brought their number of chances artificially high. I still wouldn't argue that with the theory that Drogheda were outclassed, but it wasn't nearly as bad as some would seem to suggest.

[pineapple stu]

I think barney makes a few valid points about the style of play and standard of coaching in Ireland.

Course he does. But his conclusion drawn from this (that all this back patting is ridiculous, and that the result wasn't a good one) is nonsense.

[Dodge]

EL supporters?! No way :shocked:

Have an ifraction for WUMing

I'd give you another one for completely missing the point too if it was my site...

[barney]

Course he does. But his conclusion drawn from this (that all this back patting is ridiculous, and that the result wasn't a good one) is nonsense.

Yeah it is ridiculous to say the result wasn't a good one. Shame I never said that.

[pineapple stu]

Is that what I said?

You said -

When people say they don't watch the EL because it isn't proper football, last night proved their argument.

I'm equating that with

So because Drogheda were beaten by a vastly superior side, we should all give up the ghost?

Feel free to give an alternate conclusion for me to derive.

[TonyD]

The eL is struggling for attendances. We can bury our heads in the sand and say 'well people are idiots for not going'/'they are barstoolers and don't know anything' but that simply isn't true. The level of football is very, very poor. Yes the atmosphere of live football is great and following your team from your town cannot be replaced by anything else but some people don't really want that from their football; they want a bit of quality as well as something they can identify with. Hence the 'barstooler' phenomenon.

Barney, you may have a point in some respects, and some people have been a tad overly defensive. But you're wrong on this point in my opinion. I've always held that the poor attendances at local games have little or nothing to do with the quality of football on offer. For example, do you think if Kiev were playing in Dalymount every week they'd get bigger crowds than Bohs currently do for their home games ? I'm pretty certain they wouldn't, and everyone here would readily acknowledge that Kiev are far superior to any LOI side. On the game itself I'd also give Drogs a bit more credit for at least making it a competitive game for Kiev. Yeah, they could have lost by more, but they were by no means embarressed against a team with far more resources, and that will always be the bottom line. Clubs with money will be of a higher standard than those with relatively little. In those circumstances. It may not be anything to throw street parties about, but it is progress.

[barney]

You said -



I'm equating that with



Feel free to give an alternate conclusion for me to derive.

I was pointing out that for those who don't watch football for the local association and plump instead for quality football coupled with something they can identify with, Wednesday night was justification for their preference. How often do you read a post on here saying "I can't understand why anyone would support an English club". Well this is why. Kiev (and I know they aren't English) were playing a different game to Drogheda the other night.

Personally, I love following my local team but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and say I have no idea how anyone wouldn't follow their local team first. If we want to fix the problem, or go part of the way to fixing it, then we need to acknowledge it. I certainly don't advocate giving up.

I'm talking stuff like five yard passes and some decent movement. That's pretty simple stuff with the right coaching. Were Drogheda ever going to match Kiev technically? No. Were they ever going to beat them? No. Was the result, in isolation, a bad one? No. Should, and could, they strive to improve the way that they play? Yes. Have they got the ability to do things in a more clever and intelligent manner? Yes.

My criticisms aren't of Drogheda specifically, they are of the eircom League in general. Wedenesday just happened to be a prime example of where we are going wrong. So too was the bloke directing the Shamrock Rovers kids to boot the ball long at every opportunity at Richmond Park.

[sadloserkid]

On a different topic how in God's name did Ollie Cahill win MOTM. Now I'll concede that I only saw the second half and he may have looked like the second coming of Pele in the first but all he did in the 45 minutes I watched he did nothing but deliever rubbish crosses, give possession away and get caught in possession. I thought he, more than most, was like an extra attacker for the Ukranians when they were turning the screw because he gave possession away so cheaply.

[pineapple stu]

I was pointing out that for those who don't watch football for the local association and plump instead for quality football coupled with something they can identify with, Wednesday night was justification for their preference.

Wednesday wasn't their justification no more than any other game of local ball. People like that can make up excuses at the drop of a hat.

[OneRedArmy]

Barney, the point you've raised about the lack of technical skills is a valid one, but its one that could be equally argued about the Premiership and that doesn't stop people watching that!

British, Irish (and some other European countries like Germany spring to mind) have from underage level, long favoured size and strength over speed, technical accuracy and footballing vision.

I'm calling red herring....

[barney]

Barney, you may have a point in some respects, and some people have been a tad overly defensive. But you're wrong on this point in my opinion. I've always held that the poor attendances at local games have little or nothing to do with the quality of football on offer. For example, do you think if Kiev were playing in Dalymount every week they'd get bigger crowds than Bohs currently do for their home games ? I'm pretty certain they wouldn't, and everyone here would readily acknowledge that Kiev are far superior to any LOI side. On the game itself I'd also give Drogs a bit more credit for at least making it a competitive game for Kiev. Yeah, they could have lost by more, but they were by no means embarressed against a team with far more resources, and that will always be the bottom line. Clubs with money will be of a higher standard than those with relatively little. In those circumstances. It may not be anything to throw street parties about, but it is progress.

You're right to an extent here. A lot of people I know, barstoolers, love a bandwagon to jump on and are event junkies. Similarly a lot of barstoolers I know have a great knowledge of the game and know good football when they see it. One of my mates in particular, a Man U fan who never goes to EL matches, has an absolutely fantastic grasp of the game.

Would attendances increase if, in isolation, the quality of football improves? Not by any great amount. But as the quality of football improves, the teams will do better, receive more media attention, and it'll be a snowball effect that'll bring in more supporters. It's very, very long term and no chance of it happening overnight. Facilities also need to improve considerably but when I see/hear of the new stadiums being built for Drogs, Bohs and Rovers, the new stand at the RSC and when I see the magnificent work Mick Wallace is doing at Wexford (an absolutely wonderful facility), I think we are on the right road in that respect.

But if we continue to do things as we are on the field, then things will remain the same for the most part. If we continue to just scratch our heads and say 'I can't understand people who support foreign teams' we are doomed.

[barney]

Wednesday wasn't their justification no more than any other game of local ball. People like that can make up excuses at the drop of a hat.

Wednesday night was a high profile game on RTE. Barstoolers, normally not exposed to the eL, will have watched it and anyone with a grasp of the game will have seen how far behind the eL is.

Also when you place an eL team on the pitch with a side like Kiev the point becomes more pronounced than when you have two local teams playing each other.

[pineapple stu]

No more or less than previous years.

Shels fared well against Depor and barstoolers didn't care. Drogs didn't fare as well against Kiev; the barstoolers still won't care.