Secret All-Ireland league talks at 'advanced' stage

**dublinred** · 12/12/2007, 8:00 AM

Originally Posted by David

I would agree with Not Brazil. Strongly in favour of AIL but on the basis that the two national teams remain. If they don't remain it won't happen, simple as that.

Not sure whether Wales is a country or a provience of England these days , but Cardiff and Swansea have being playing in the English league for years despite there being a Welsh league and there is no problems with the national team apart from the obvious that neither win very much these days. I think the AIL would be great a top divsion of 20 teams would avoid having to play the other teama 3/4 times and as previously suggested 2 lower divsion on a regional basis wih playoffs for promotion and relegation would work.

**MariborKev** · 12/12/2007, 9:14 AM

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre...breaking13.htm

This is the one I had heard the rumours about.....

**pete** · 12/12/2007, 10:43 AM

This seems to be a very serious proposal. It is clear clubs are seeking new means of boosting revenue as they don't see any potential in the status quo. Clearly some people see potential in the league. IMO some business people have probably see the bargain transfer fee deals in recent season & realise that some talent in the league & with more professional base could increase those fees substancially.

**dcfcsteve** · 12/12/2007, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I suppose you're right as far as Derry City are concerned, but arguably they are in the Eircom and suffering any associated financial inequality against other Eircom teams, by choice. That is, they could always opt* to return to the Irish League.

Correction - City had NO choice when we joined the LOI in 1985, as the IFA repeatedly rejected our advances to rejoin the IL. It's only recently since you've all seen the potential and colour the team brings to a league that you're keen to have us in - shallow b@stards.

Since the FAI were so gratioous as to bring us back to life, we haven't a bean of intention of snubbing their kindness by going back to bed-down with the dinosaurs of the IFA/Irish League Management Committee. Also - the EL is a league going places - mostly upwards - whilst the IL continues to be on a slow downwards descent, so we have no real choice with an eye to the future either.

So in reality - we had no choice at the start, and we still effectively have no choice now. Tough titties IL - we won't be back.

**Blanchflower** · 12/12/2007, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Correction - City had NO choice when we joined the LOI in 1985, as the IFA repeatedly rejected our advances to rejoin the IL. It's only recently since you've all seen the potential and colour the team brings to a league that you're keen to have us in - shallow b@stards.

Not a correction, since EG was talking in the present, and - as you admit - the IFA would not now block Derry City's return to NI football.
(Incidentally, was it not the League that blocked Derry's return?)

**R�iteoir** · 12/12/2007, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by londonred

Not sure whether Wales is a country or a provience of England these days , but Cardiff and Swansea have being playing in the English league for years despite there being a Welsh league.

Not strictly correct there londonred

Cardiff, Swansea, Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare Athletic, Newport AFC, Wrexham and Colwyn Bay have played in the English Leagues for the past century or so.

Before 1992 Wales had no national league of it's own - and had to set one up under pressure from UEFA.

They had a "Welsh Cup" which is still played today - but prior to 1992 allowed English clubs from the Border Counties to play in it with the winners (or the highest fnishing Welsh club if an English team won it) going into the European Cup Winners' Cup - I remember Worcester City taking on Barry Town, Swansea and Cardiff regularly in it.

The formation of the League of Wales saw the start of a bitter dispute between the Football Association of Wales (FAW) and those non-English League clubs who wanted to remain part of the English football league. The 'Irate Eight', as they were dubbed, consisted of Bangor City, Barry Town, Caernarfon Town, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport County, Newtown and Rhyl.

Prior to the inaugural season, Bangor City, Newtown and Rhyl returned to play in Wales. However as Rhyl's application to join the league was late, they were placed in the second level of the pyramid system. Because of FAW sanctions, the remaining five clubs were forced to play their home matches in England. Following a season in exile at Worcester City, five became four, as Barry Town joined the Welsh league system.

A court ruling in 1995 allowed the remaining four clubs to return to Wales to play their home matches while still remaining within the English system; despite this victory, Caernarfon Town decided to join the League of Wales.

However, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil and Newport County remain in the English league pyramid system.

**dcfcsteve** · 12/12/2007, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by R�iteoir

Not strictly correct there londonred

Cardiff, Swansea, Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare Athletic, Newport AFC, Wrexham and Colwyn Bay have played in the English Leagues for the past century or so.

Before 1992 Wales had no national league of it's own - and had to set one up under pressure from UEFA.

They had a "Welsh Cup" which is still played today - but prior to 1992 allowed English clubs from the Border Counties to play in it with the winners (or the highest fnishing Welsh club if an English team won it) going into the European Cup Winners' Cup - I remember Worcester City taking on Barry Town, Swansea and Cardiff regularly in it.

The formation of the League of Wales saw the start of a bitter dispute between the Football Association of Wales (FAW) and those non-English League clubs who wanted to remain part of the English football league. The 'Irate Eight', as they were dubbed, consisted of Bangor City, Barry Town, Caernarfon Town, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport County, Newtown and Rhyl.

Prior to the inaugural season, Bangor City, Newtown and Rhyl returned to play in Wales. However as Rhyl's application to join the league was late, they were placed in the second level of the pyramid system. Because of FAW sanctions, the remaining five clubs were forced to play their home matches in England. Following a season in exile at Worcester City, five became four, as Barry Town joined the Welsh league system.

A court ruling in 1995 allowed the remaining four clubs to return to Wales to play their home matches while still remaining within the English system; despite this victory, Caernarfon Town decided to join the League of Wales.

However, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil and Newport County remain in the English league pyramid system.

To build on that, the League of Wales was only created in 1992 as a pre-emptive defensive measure by the FAW to protect their presence in the UK's permanent seat on FIFA bodies, which is often under attack from less well reprsented regions (particularly Africa).

This whole 'league to have an international team' issue is a complete red herring, as it's very easily surmountable. You could have an all-island league, and then at some sort of level underneath individual leagues north and south, and that would be suffice. As it is the FA's themselves that nominate which teams take their Euro slots, thewy could nominate the teams for the AIL.

The bigger issue anyway is that, as we have a unique history, I have no doubt whatsoever that we would receive special dispensation - even if there was a perceived problem.

**dcfcsteve** · 12/12/2007, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

Not a correction, since EG was talking in the present, and - as you admit - the IFA would not now block Derry City's return to NI football.
(Incidentally, was it not the League that blocked Derry's return?)

As I said - we have no choice. The 'choice' of leaving the progressive nature of the EL, which gave us a home when our own supposed footballing authorities wouldn't, and returning to the increasing shambles that is the IL is in reality not a real choice. Just because the IL long for our return doesn't make it a valid option for our club.

The IFA and ILMC were two parts of the same system that existsed in 1970's northern Irish football. Harry Cavan (President of IFA for about 30 years, and general bigot) played a key individual role in determining the Brandywell as unsuitable for European football as far back as 1964, and in us not making it back into football once we were out. The IFA then went and named a youth cup after him to honour his wisdom......

But we digress.....

**dcfcsteve** · 12/12/2007, 12:48 PM

The plot thickens :

Originally Posted by Irish Times

There was confusion last night over moves to develop an All-Ireland League as it emerged that, in addition to preliminary work by some Southern clubs to explore the possibility of establishing a 32-county top flight, a second, apparently more advanced, process is under way.

It is understood Fintan Drury, who heads up the Irish end of the British-based sports agency Platinum One and also advises St Patrick's Athletic owner Garrett Kelleher, has been working on a business plan for a league involving the leading clubs from both sides of the Border.

Drury could not be contacted for comment last night but is said to have recruited the former Derry City managing director Jim Roddy to work on the process and both men have held meetings with representatives of clubs as well as a number of politicians to gauge support for the new league.

Officials at several clubs confirmed Drury's involvement and there appears to be plenty of enthusiasm for his proposals.

It seems Drury intends that Platinum One, a company traditionally associated with player management and organising tours and tournaments involving clubs like Manchester United, Barcelona and Seville, would play a central role in the scheme.

The company would source the money to start the new league and would presumably handle commercial and broadcasting aspects of its operation.

The move has become public as club officials confirmed a second process has reached the point where four representatives of clubs in the South have been asked to approach selected Northern outfits this side of Christmas with a view to talks.

This second initiative is the product of five meetings held in Dublin over the last two months. Most have been held in the IFSC offices of Arkaga, the company that owns Cork City, and initially the group was limited to a few of the League of Ireland's big clubs but has been steadily expanding.

One of the early intentions of this group appears to have been to look at ways of challenging the league's new rules on the percentage of turnover that can be paid to players, though that move appears to have hit the rocks early on as it emerged a significant number of the clubs actually supported the rule.

Talk of an All-Ireland league proved more popular, though, and Roddy (again) and representatives of Galway United, Bohemians and Drogheda United were nominated to open talks with Linfield, Glentoran, Glenavon and maybe one other Irish League club.

The whole process is, however, still at a formative and informal stage, as one of those involved explained. "Some of the talk has been a bit exaggerated," he said. "The clubs are keen to see where it can go, but it hasn't gone anywhere yet."

While many leading clubs are clearly enthusiastic about the prospect of playing in a single league, selling the idea to the two associations will be a major challenge for either grouping.

Drury's prospects would not be helped by the fact his relationship with the FAI's key figure, John Delaney, is understood to have been strained since Brian Kerr lost his job as Republic of Ireland manager two years ago.

Previously Delaney had hired Drury to renegotiate Eircom's sponsorship contract with the FAI but it is possible Roddy, who has strong connections on both sides of the Border, would lead any talks with the associations.

Achieving recognition from the governing bodies would be critical for public funding and European football but another club official suggested yesterday the organisations might have to row in behind the initiative - whoever was driving it - if the two existing league's were effectively stripped of their best clubs.

This proposal seems much more plausible/exciting to me, as it involves a professional sports firm who you would expect would know a thing or two abotu marketing football products and making sports appealing.

The only question would be what wuld hppen if it didn't succeed for them. I guess they'd just leave us with what we have now, but we need to try something to step-change the future direction of the league anyway.

**OneRedArmy** · 12/12/2007, 12:51 PM

More pertinently, whose the leaky source?

It couldn't possibly be the FAI......

**dcfcsteve** · 12/12/2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

More pertinently, whose the leaky source?

It couldn't possibly be the FAI......

I'm not so bothered about that - these things all come our sooner or later in some way.

**MariborKev** · 12/12/2007, 12:57 PM

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...cle3245335.ece

Linfield rule themselves out.......

**dcfcsteve** · 12/12/2007, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by Maribor

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...cle3245335.ece

Linfield rule themselves out.......

An AIL without Linfield wouldn't work in the long term - but could in the short term, with the aim of coaxing Linfield into it sooner rather than later.

If the major clubs in the north apart from the Blues left the IL to play in an AIL, Linfield would be left with the crumbs of a league. Especially if the new league was launched with great razz-matazz, TV coverage, decent crowds etc, I wouldn't see it taking long before Linfield got involved.

It would be a difficult start without the Blues, but there shouldn't be any single-club veto on a proposal like this (feckin' Unionists with their vetoes.....

)

**Steve Bruce** · 12/12/2007, 1:42 PM

I think Linfield being part of it would create more razz-matazz than any other single club.

Whether some people like to admit it or not, Linfield are regarded as the biggest, most successful, most recognisable club on this island.

I'm happy with this announcement, But if an AIL still goes forward, good luck, I'll still be watching Linfield dominate Irish League football as per usual.

PS: If Linfield don't agree, neither with Glentoran and visa versa.

**Blanchflower** · 12/12/2007, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

As I said - we have no choice.

You do have a choice - and you choose to stay in the Southern league.

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The 'choice' of leaving the progressive nature of the EL, which gave us a home when our own supposed footballing authorities wouldn't, and returning to the increasing shambles that is the IL is in reality not a real choice. Just because the IL long for our return doesn't make it a valid option for our club.

It is a real choice - what you are saying, though, is that the reasons for choosing to stay in the Southern league greatly outweigh those for re-joining the Irish League.

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The IFA and ILMC were two parts of the same system that existsed in 1970's northern Irish football. Harry Cavan (President of IFA for about 30 years, and general bigot) played a key individual role in determining the Brandywell as unsuitable for European football as far back as 1964, and in us not making it back into football once we were out.

The Irish League blocked your re-entry to the League: not the IFA. Derry City remained a member of the IFA even after it left the League. (Presumably it left the IFA in 1985?)

**OneRedArmy** · 12/12/2007, 1:52 PM

Oh sweet Jesus not again

**Steve Bruce** · 12/12/2007, 2:00 PM

hardly relevevant lads to an AIL.

**passerrby** · 12/12/2007, 2:06 PM

someone is drip feeding this twaddle to the papers ( i wonder who ) in the hope that this will grow legs but when it comes down to it there is no support from the eircom league which by the way is 22 clubs or the irish league ,the FAI or IFA . a number of the so called big clubs are attempting to get there hands on more money at the expense of everybody else, f*"k im

**Tony_Montana** · 12/12/2007, 2:19 PM

Monaghan fans should not be try and hold the rest of the league back, we are true warriors in the very ancient form. Monaghan will and you will always play the role of the submissive weaker pray and bow to us. Your cessation of existence grows closer as you type my friend.