If Nord Iron has Qualified

[gspain]

Are you calling Noely a liar?

I was at the game in 78. Nasty atmosphere. Big fight on the Rugby training pitch behind the East stand between NI "fans" and the Gardai. Nowhere near as bad as the England game in 95 though.

Links from 1978 are you serious?

Check out the Irish Times archive from 1978 sept 21.
nice picture of our Gardai pumping skulls on the front page.
Report on the inside.

I note the smiley but I wasn't calling anyone a liar.

I was there. I can remember the away support on the north terrace, a large crowd if not a full house, a poor game.

I would like to know the extent of the trouble. An Irish Times report would be eprfect so can you post that here for those of us without a sub.

[lopez]

I worked with this bloke who was there as a NI fan. There was no doubt that there was an 'off' at this game. But to be fair there was also an 'off' at my first game at Lansdowne Road against Spain between a healthy bunch of Spanish students and some Irish fans. No political history there.

I suppose, it was par for the course back then I suppose. People talk about Shamrock Rovers Casuals at the moment, but from 1981 to probably the Belgium game of 1986, football violence either occured or was close to the surface at all Ireland games (mostly away, but at home if there was a sizeable support located in the home fans) with the Swiss and England games of 1985 the worst. I can't see how anyone can deny it. If they do they weren't there IMO.

[geysir]

I note the smiley but I wasn't calling anyone a liar.

I was there. I can remember the away support on the north terrace, a large crowd if not a full house, a poor game.

I would like to know the extent of the trouble. An Irish Times report would be eprfect so can you post that here for those of us without a sub.

I thought Kevin Myers would be compulsary reading for you
I don't have a sub for the Irish Times Archives. Front pages of old editions can be viewed, sort of, on line. There is a picture of the Gardai dealing with fans on the training pitch.
On the Dundalk History webpage there are newspaper accounts (jpg imaged) posted about the Linfield riots there in 1979. The worst football related violence I have seen. Uefa officials found Linfield culpable for the riots.
As mypost wrote that´s what happened then and is not part of the present day experience.

[Lionel Ritchie]

As mypost wrote that´s what happened then and is not part of the present day experience.

Except that's not quite what mypost wrote. I believe I'm quoting him accurately when he says they "caused mayhem in Dublin". What I've heard described is a relatively limited skirmish, both in size and geographical spread, involving a number of thugs getting "drive-thru" justice from the thin blue line and good enough for them.

Hardly the appalling vista "caused mayhem in Dublin" conjures up though.

[geysir]

Except that's not quite what mypost wrote. I believe I'm quoting him accurately when he says they "caused mayhem in Dublin". What I've heard described is a relatively limited skirmish, both in size and geographical spread, involving a number of thugs getting "drive-thru" justice from the thin blue line and good enough for them.

Hardly the appalling vista "caused mayhem in Dublin" conjures up though.

If we are quoting mypost then this is what he wrote

Afaia, their fans came down in '78, and caused mayhem in Dublin. From '89 onwards, they behaved themselves very well. Part of this was down to the fact they were banned from travelling in the first place.

You are more accurate in the mayhem bit in Dublin 1978.
There was a huge security alert for that 1978 game at Lansdowne, there was some localised mayhem as in baton charges by the Guards, either the National Front types were not enough in numbers determined to create real mayhem or the Guards were there there in sufficient numbers.
There was mayhem in Dundalk.

[Noelys Guitar]

I worked with this bloke who was there as a NI fan. There was no doubt that there was an 'off' at this game. But to be fair there was also an 'off' at my first game at Lansdowne Road against Spain between a healthy bunch of Spanish students and some Irish fans. No political history there.

I suppose, it was par for the course back then I suppose. People talk about Shamrock Rovers Casuals at the moment, but from 1981 to probably the Belgium game of 1986, football violence either occured or was close to the surface at all Ireland games (mostly away, but at home if there was a sizeable support located in the home fans) with the Swiss and England games of 1985 the worst. I can't see how anyone can deny it. If they do they weren't there IMO.

The trouble at the Spanish game happened in the East stand. About 15 idiots moved from the south terrace and got into the East stand and attacked the Spanish students. The fighting at the Belgium away game in 81 was probably the worst. Again a small number ot troublemakers (mostly QPR/Irish fans from Shepherds Bush) got into a fight with some Belgium Skinheads. Started about 4 mins into game. Stopped by cops. Then started again after Belgium scored.

[lopez]

The trouble at the Spanish game happened in the East stand. About 15 idiots moved from the south terrace and got into the East stand and attacked the Spanish students. The fighting at the Belgium away game in 81 was probably the worst. Again a small number ot troublemakers (mostly QPR/Irish fans from Shepherds Bush) got into a fight with some Belgium Skinheads. Started about 4 mins into game. Stopped by cops. Then started again after Belgium scored.

I was on the south terrace that day and it was under the old East stand terrace.

Belgium was before my time, but I remember there were reports in the Evening Standard and Capital Radio of trouble on the ship going over.

This was I'm afraid a culture of London Irish football fans going into Irish games and finding more than a few Dub/Cork soul mates. My first game at Holland that september certainly showed there was no difference on this aspect of the game from what I'd seen in England. I was at the Double Diamond Pub in Rotterdam with my dad and a group of Irish fans set fire to the Dutch flag (some London Irish and some Dubs). An elderly couple complained about this but were given short shrift. A Limerick lad I got to know said 'That was out of order burning the Dutch flag. Couldn't any of youse c*nts find a Union rag to burn?' Then there was an impromptu 2 mins silence for the Hunger Strikers followed by a rendition of the SS, to which a London Irish biddy (well to a fifteen year old she was old but probably in her thirties) got a slap from her boyfriend for walking through it.

Then all hell broke loose because these two punks/skinheads (Dubs living in London I later found out) attacked a black man - and I don't think it was because they thought he liked soul - and this was broken up by a big Dutch bloke flying out of his house and laying into Sid and Nancy in defence of the black man. The police suddenly arrived (no doubt over the flag burning) in sufficient numbers to arrest the punks and persuade the Irish fans to get back to drinking. For a fifteen year old, this was quite an entertaining afternoon. Didn't think my dad was as impressed though.

[Noelys Guitar]

I was on the south terrace that day and it was under the old East stand terrace.

Belgium was before my time, but I remember there were reports in the Evening Standard and Capital Radio of trouble on the ship going over.

This was I'm afraid a culture of London Irish football fans going into Irish games and finding more than a few Dub/Cork soul mates. My first game at Holland that september certainly showed there was no difference on this aspect of the game from what I'd seen in England. I was at the Double Diamond Pub in Rotterdam with my dad and a group of Irish fans set fire to the Dutch flag (some London Irish and some Dubs). An elderly couple complained about this but were given short shrift. A Limerick lad I got to know said 'That was out of order burning the Dutch flag. Couldn't any of youse c*nts find a Union rag to burn?' Then there was an impromptu 2 mins silence for the Hunger Strikers followed by a rendition of the SS, to which a London Irish biddy (well to a fifteen year old she was old but probably in her thirties) got a slap from her boyfriend for walking through it.

Then all hell broke loose because these two punks/skinheads (Dubs living in London I later found out) attacked a black man - and I don't think it was because they thought he liked soul - and this was broken up by a big Dutch bloke flying out of his house and laying into Sid and Nancy in defence of the black man. The police suddenly arrived (no doubt over the flag burning) in sufficient numbers to arrest the punks and persuade the Irish fans to get back to drinking. For a fifteen year old, this was quite an entertaining afternoon. Didn't think my dad was as impressed though.

I was outside the Double Diamond at the same time Lopez! There was a well dressed Dutch guy trying to get the Irish crowd to have a go at the Surinam guys about 2 streets down. It was the first time I had ever seen anything like that. He was some type of neo-nazi. He disappeared when people just ignored him. I can remember the cops surrounding the bar in large numbers. But they were not aggressive in anyway. That punk who the cops arrested was from Dun Laoghaire but was living in London. He was picking fights with everyone. I did'nt see any attack on a Black guy but I was half ****ed so missed that.

[KevB76]

I would support Northern Ireland, particularly if they'd qualified and not us. I like to see them do well, likewise England, Scotland and Wales. I cant help feeling a certain affinity to our close neighbours, I'm not concerned whether the sentiment is reciprocated.

[gspain]

I thought Kevin Myers would be compulsary reading for you
I don't have a sub for the Irish Times Archives. Front pages of old editions can be viewed, sort of, on line. There is a picture of the Gardai dealing with fans on the training pitch.
On the Dundalk History webpage there are newspaper accounts (jpg imaged) posted about the Linfield riots there in 1979. The worst football related violence I have seen. Uefa officials found Linfield culpable for the riots.
As mypost wrote that´s what happened then and is not part of the present day experience.

The frontpage visible without a sub is virtually impossible to read and the photo virtually impossible to see.

I don't see the relevance of changing the subject to the Dundalk v Linfield game. I wasn't att he game but have spoken to a number of people who were there and I believe it was pretty bad.

[lopez]

I was outside the Double Diamond at the same time Lopez! There was a well dressed Dutch guy trying to get the Irish crowd to have a go at the Surinam guys about 2 streets down. It was the first time I had ever seen anything like that. He was some type of neo-nazi. He disappeared when people just ignored him. I can remember the cops surrounding the bar in large numbers. But they were not aggressive in anyway. That punk who the cops arrested was from Dun Laoghaire but was living in London. He was picking fights with everyone. I did'nt see any attack on a Black guy but I was half ****ed so missed that.

What a coincidence! Don't remember the neo-Nazi although I got there when the drunkeness was in full swing. There were these two drunken Dutch fans who walked through singing a quirky song like something Max Bygraves would sing.

I remember the punk was from Dun Laoghaire now as I got to know someone later who knew him. He had a mate with him too though. Completely bonkers as he had a (tricolour) Prodigy hairstyle ten years before its time (I saw him again a year later b*ll*xd at Liverpool Street Station going to the next Holland game). His passport photo was of him screaming apparently.

The Police were alright too. I think the fact that the punk was having a go at everyone explains why he didn't get help from the other Irish fans when the Dutch bloke attacked him and his mate (This happened around the corner from the pub in a residential street). Since then the whole area has been floored. The Double Diamond pub is as much history as the brewer/beer itself. It's all new offices when I was last there in 1996.

[geysir]

The frontpage visible without a sub is virtually impossible to read and the photo virtually impossible to see.

Virtually impossible, agreed.
I can make out 3 Gardai doing something with fan 1/2 on the ground on the training pitch.

I don't see the relevance of changing the subject to the Dundalk v Linfield game. I wasn't att he game but have spoken to a number of people who were there and I believe it was pretty bad.

The subject of the thread is would you support NI if they had qualified not the history of violence.

mypost mentioned mayhem from distant days but better behaved now.
You seemed skeptical of reports of violence
"I was at the game in 1978 as a kid and don't remember any trouble"
"Even if there was trouble in 78 it was a long tme ago"
I know there was trouble I was there, Noely gave his account. It was in the papers at the time.
There is a tenuos link to the Dundalk game in that context, same time, same type of National Front mob looking for and creating aggro. Football fans from NI travelling South were as welcome as the plague then.

Now it is different, glory be.

I wasn't att he game but have spoken to a number of people who were there and I believe it was pretty bad

You shouldn´t just take the word of fans
The whole riot is well documented with the news reports posted on the Dundalk website

[an_ceannaire]

Think I might have misrepresented myself as a bit of an auld Hoop hugging semtex loving RA head in my original post. Funny thing is, I am anything but. If Linfield met Cork in the Setanta I would shout for Linfield!! Cant abide those Langers!! As i said i have absolutely nothing against your average Norn Iron fan as an individual, and I have nothing whatsoever against any of their players. Excepg KG but thats just cos he is a Knobend. But mob mentality kicks in and when you have a team, who have a sizeable minorty/small majority of fans who claim to hate me, not knowing me, just because I have the audacity to come from the South.......sorry , I could never support them. Ulster Rugby is different. Different type of support, still mainly unionist, but minus the vitrol and the hatred. I would support Ulster against everyone except Munster/Leinster. But I cant bring myself to support OWC. Too much recent history and incident.
Does this make me a bigot? I am sure in many of your eyes, yes. And fair enough. But I guarantee you just as many, even if they wont admit it would understand my viewpoint and quietly agree

[jmurphyc]

Here's an article from the Irish Times Archive that mentions violence at the match in 1978 (hope this works):

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/arc...327EF701828716

[KevB76]

But I guarantee you just as many, even if they wont admit it would understand my viewpoint and quietly agree

Are you cupcakes in disguise ?

[gspain]

Here's an article from the Irish Times Archive that mentions violence at the match in 1978 (hope this works):

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/arc...327EF701828716

The link doesn't work as you need a sub - can you post it.

[jmurphyc]

Scuffles Between Rival Fans After Big Match Flop

By Colm Boland

A number of scuffles and stone-throwing incidents between rival fans following yesterday's scoreless draw international soccer match in Dublin between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Shortly after the end of the game hundreds of spectators had to dash for safety as two groups of youths exchanged a hail of stones near the Dodder Bridge exit from Lansdowne Road.

The incident was followed by a baton charge by Gardai who used their truncheons on a number of Northern Ireland youths.

There were also scuffles at the Havelock Square end of the ground after the match and at the Lansdowne Road railway station where special trains carrying Northern supporters were leaving for Belfast.

The European Championship game - the first between Northern Ireland and the Republic - saw one of the biggest security operations ever mounted by the Gardai for a sporting occasion in this country. An estimated 45,000 attended the game. Between 8,000 and 10,000 Northern fans came to Dublin for the match.

The Northern Ireland Secretary, Mr Roy Mason, who attended had an armed Special Branch escort but most of the security was to guard against trouble in the terraces. Spectators were stripped of beer bottles and other possible missiles before the game by gardai who manned barriers at all approaches to the ground and asked everybody to show their tickets.

The match itself - dismissed as a great bore by supporters of both teams - passed off without any serious trouble. The terraces were caged off from the pitch by high fences erected for the occasion, and gardai stood in groups right around the grounds.

It was after the game that trouble erupted. The rush to the exits had started minutes before the end of the game. Tempers became frayed when thousands of people were blocked at Lansdowne Road because the railway crossing was closed to allow trains through.

Near the Dodder Bridge exit

Continued on Page 5

© 1978 The Irish Times

[Noelys Guitar]

Scuffles Between Rival Fans After Big Match Flop

By Colm Boland

A number of scuffles and stone-throwing incidents between rival fans following yesterday's scoreless draw international soccer match in Dublin between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Shortly after the end of the game hundreds of spectators had to dash for safety as two groups of youths exchanged a hail of stones near the Dodder Bridge exit from Lansdowne Road.

The incident was followed by a baton charge by Gardai who used their truncheons on a number of Northern Ireland youths.

There were also scuffles at the Havelock Square end of the ground after the match and at the Lansdowne Road railway station where special trains carrying Northern supporters were leaving for Belfast.

The European Championship game - the first between Northern Ireland and the Republic - saw one of the biggest security operations ever mounted by the Gardai for a sporting occasion in this country. An estimated 45,000 attended the game. Between 8,000 and 10,000 Northern fans came to Dublin for the match.

The Northern Ireland Secretary, Mr Roy Mason, who attended had an armed Special Branch escort but most of the security was to guard against trouble in the terraces. Spectators were stripped of beer bottles and other possible missiles before the game by gardai who manned barriers at all approaches to the ground and asked everybody to show their tickets.

The match itself - dismissed as a great bore by supporters of both teams - passed off without any serious trouble. The terraces were caged off from the pitch by high fences erected for the occasion, and gardai stood in groups right around the grounds.

It was after the game that trouble erupted. The rush to the exits had started minutes before the end of the game. Tempers became frayed when thousands of people were blocked at Lansdowne Road because the railway crossing was closed to allow trains through.

Near the Dodder Bridge exit

Continued on Page 5

© 1978 The Irish Times

Great stuff. The Gardai handled that day very well.

[sligobhoy67]

I cant believe some people on here are saying they would get behind Bigot F.C. if they qualified. I cant think of a team I would support less. Infact I would support Englandshire against Bigot F.C.

[Not Brazil]

I cant believe some people on here are saying they would get behind Bigot F.C. if they qualified. I cant think of a team I would support less. Infact I would support Englandshire against Bigot F.C.

The irony in this post made me chuckle.