To be fair EalingGreen makes some valid points, but at the end of the day it should be simple. If you live in the 6 counties you have a choice who to represent. Everyone knows the reasons why. There's no point us waffling on about it.
Only thing i'd add is that once you make that choice you should not be allowed change ur mind.
That is very reasonable JUANACE but when is the cut-off point for making up your mind?
I'm not going to argue with your point, Juanace, merely suggest that there might be another "simple" choice out there. Namely, if you are born/live within NI, you play for NI and if you are born/live within the ROI you play for ROI.Originally Posted by Juanace
After all, why should people within the 6C (your term) have a choice which is not automatically open to people within the 26C (or anywhere else in the world, for that matter)?
How do you not know the answer to that? (although you're probably wumming).
Of course I know the answer to that, Dm, which is why I did not seek to deny Juanace the right to his opinion.
Rather, I was merely trying to point out that there might be more than one opinion out there, something which appears to have passed you by entirely...
there might be another "simple" choice out there. Namely, if you are born/live within NI, you play for NI and if you are born/live within the ROI you play for ROI.
Your simple choice is to eliminate choice for NI born Irish nationals.
Fortunatly there is some precise and honourable legislation in the FIFA statutes to protect the civil rights of footballers from people like you.
Time to return to your nest Ealing Green and await furthur developments
because the answer (like the little boy tells the two tramps every evening) from FIFA will not be this evening but surely tomorrow.
And there was me thinking that there might be more than one "simple choice" out there in Ireland, seeing as there is more than more than one "Irish" international football team out there, as well.
Your simple choice is to eliminate choice for NI born Irish nationals.
Fortunatly there is some precise and honourable legislation in the FIFA statutes to protect the civil rights of footballers from people like you.
Time to return to your nest Ealing Green and await furthur developments
because the answer (like the little boy tells the two tramps) from FIFA will not be this evening but surely tomorrow.
Or do you envisage a situation whereby players from the 26C, for whatever reason, might be allowed which of the two Irish teams they represent?
Or indeed a situation whereby players from the territory of any Association (jurisdiction) might be in a position to choose to represent another Association, whether for political reasons, or no particular reason at all?
Trust me, if you could be sufficiently arsed to check back through my posts on this subject, you'd find that I have never actually prescribed any single "solution" to this particular conundrum.
Rather, I have tried instead to point out that there must be more than one way of looking at this, otherwise the solution would be obvious to everyone.
In which case, I am happy enough to await "further developments" at my "nest" - I may not be the nestling who is disappointed in all this!
P.S. I am not familiar with the story of the little boy and the two tramps.
Yes but is the above not a case of using Northen Ireland as an exception to prove a rule. Is this not a misplaced fear that this precedent is gonna cause annarchy in International football eligability criteria?
Why not? Commit to something. It appears to me you're understandably looking for an outcome that best suits NI. The only conundrum I see is that that can't happen without compromising the players right of choice of Nationality.
If you are bothered by the prospect of loosing eligable players to the Republic, I feel your frustration is misdirected in targeting perceived ambiugity in eligabiliy criteria.
P.S I'll work on my Net-iquette.
So back to O'Kane (or is it Kane?). Is he any good-should we be bothered about him the way we are with Gibson?
Will his brother The Undertaker play for NI or us?
I
I can certainly understand the call for NI to be an exception (though how it "proves the rule" somewhat escapes me. No matter) However, the fear that allowing such an exception will cause great difficulties elsewhere is not "misplaced", otherwise FIFA would not have had to tighten the eligibility rules in the first place. The birthplace/parent/grandparent/residency Annex was introduced in response to a genuine problem which had arisen. I personally have little doubt that it was done without regard to the unusual circumstances obtaining in NI. Whether FIFA now wishes to amend the Annex, declare an exception (or the non-application of it) for NI-born players, or is determined to apply it equally to all Nationalities, is the moot point.
Re your second paragraph, obviously I know which way I would like FIFA to decide. However, unlike the majority of posters on this Board, I can see the merit of the technical arguments both ways. Therefore I feel FIFA has to make a policy decision, which will inevitably disappoint one of its Member Associations or the other, which I imagine may be why it is taking so long.
Re your last paragraph, of course I am concerned at the prospect of losing players who might otherwise only be eligible for us. What supporter wouldn't be? But it is not a case of "perceived ambiguity". Rather, there is a conundrum to be solved which may only be determined by FIFA. Namely, do NI-born players automatically have dual footballing (NOT political or constitutional) nationality, which would thereby qualify them for either of two Associations?
Or, on the basis that one cannot be born in two separate "countries" (obviously!), do they need to satisfy one of the the additional three criteria (parent/grandparent/residency), now applied to every other footballer everywhere else in the world, when seeking to represent an Association in whose jurisdiction they were not actually born?
This is not our concern. Take it up with the British government about their policy of denying citizenship to Southern unionists who want it.
Why aren't you suggesting a recipricol arrangement. Simple choice of the player, or are you some sort of dictatorial fascist? Southern players if they choose can play for the North as well? Because you have that de facto arrangement already, and you know it.
The quality of the NI team is not so low as to not still be compiled of players from British teams. Two years in Britain and any Irish player can get a British passport. I'm sure this will be 'fast-tracked'. Then the player in question can play for NI. So the choice may not be automatically open to everyone, but it is almost universally open to professional footballers from the 26C to play for NI if they wished.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; You want to deny Northern nationalists the choice to play for what they regard as their country (Ireland, which is currently politically 26C but who they believe should be (as it was prior to 1921) 32C), but doing nothing to stop southerners or any other foreigners playing for NI.
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
from http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...e-1070276.html
Meanwhile, the FAI yesterday told Northern Ireland that they can forget about Darron Gibson following Tony Kane into Nigel Worthington's team.
Blackburn Rovers defender Kane has been called into Worthington's senior squad for next weeks' Euro 2008 qualifiers. This is despite the player switching to the Republic in October last year and playing in five under-21 internationals.
FIFA are processing the player's application for a change of allegiance from the North to the Republic. Worthington is determined to reclaim Manchester United midfielder Gibson, who made his senior Irish debut in Denmark. The Northern Ireland boss is adamant that Steve Staunton will not pick the player in a competitive game for fear of FIFA sanctions.
"Darron first played competitively for the Republic in October 2003 and FIFA only changed the rules in May 2004," insisted an FAI spokesman.
You mean like Tony Kane choosing the North because he wasn't good enough to get into any of the Republic Youth Squads?
So why have you been harping on for what seems like an eternity on here and on ourweecountry.com about the FAI tapping up the likes of Gibson, Kane (initially), Wilson and O'Connor and convincing them to switch associations adding that you would like to see FIFA take action against the FAI for this? This shows EG what a hypocrite you are. One rule for the North and another for everyone else. Take those blinkers off and grow up.
As for your last sentence, assuming Kane does actually accept the offer to return to the NI fold, it will be precisely because he has "made his own mind up"; otherwise, how else was Worthington going to "force" him into anything? Abduction at gunpoint?
Last edited by youngirish; 03/09/2007 at 9:34 AM.
Re tets post - Does this mean his applicaiton is still subject to "processing" & is therefore not yet ratified?
Even if the babies on ourweeminds and the IFA were to get this episode decided in their favour (which I think there are two hopes and one of them's called Bob), Gibson is ours as his debut preceded the Qatar incident.
Stan! Cap his Irish ass!
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
New boy here! Hi to all. Re: Kane/O'Kane, he's made his choice to switch back so let him on and good luck to him. Whatever his reasons are for going back to NI opportunity is most likely the biggest reason, he wasn't featuring much for us anyway and a senior call up looks even more unlikely. Worthington will no doubt put a bit of OWC spin on it but the reality is he is unlikely to be missed down south, talking of OWC there's a few posters on there that won't be best pleased to see the return of the 'prodigal son' judging from some of the bile spewed out on that rather long and tedious thread concerning Kane, Gibson, O'Connor and Wilson. Gibson's not for turning it would appear, I don't know about O'Connor and Wilson but I'm sure Nige will be sniffing about hoping he can persuade them to rejoin too. Good luck to Kane have a nice career, bye!
Re Kane, I have not discounted the possibility that he is merely picking and choosing on grounds of expediency. It is for the manager to ascertain a player's motives and try to predict his commitment accordingly. Worthington seems hapy enough with Kane on this latter point.
As for your second paragraph, I expressed my concern when Kerr (FAI) discontinued the decades old "Gentlemens' Agreement" brokered by FIFA and started selecting NI-born players. This concern is exacerbated by evidence that the FAI is not merely accepting approaches from NI-born players, but actively soliciting them. The two examples we do know about are Kieran McKenna and Chris Baird, both of whom clearly stated they were "tapped up" (but declined). Given the thoroughness of the FAI's scouting programme under Kerr, it is extremely unlikely (imo) that these were the only two. However, those who accepted are not likely to disclose the fact of their having been approached.
Consequently, if as I believe it may be, the FAI should not in fact be capping these players at senior level, then yes, I do want FIFA to take action. There is nothing "hypocritical" about wishing to see the Rules properly applied, it would only be so were I not to accept FIFA's determination if it goes against the IFA.
As for the individual players you cite, I don't think I posted anywhere that any of these four were "tapped" by the FAI. Do you care to prove me wrong on this?
Actually, since it was disclosed that Kane is returning to the fold, the reaction to him on OWC has been almost universally favourable, so it really is a very "few".
You have mentioned tapping up with regard to those aforementioned players. On the ourweecountry.com thread dealing with this there are numerous mentions of the word tapping up by yourself with regard to the players mentioned above. Don't make me find them. I couldn't be bothered sifting through 89 pages of absolute bile.
Last edited by youngirish; 03/09/2007 at 11:30 AM.
You made the claim, you back it up.
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