NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

**geysir** · 29/08/2007, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Gibson, whose professed lifelong affinity to the ROI only is perhaps questionable, considering he has disclosed that a falling out with an IFA coach over being allowed leave from the NI team he was playing for (to attend a trial at MU) was partly behind his switching. .

How about the more likely scenario -Perhaps not questionable Irishness' - perhaps it is as both Darron and his parents say it is.
I detect a reluctance to accept that it is possible for a young footballer to be fully Irish. A reluctance to accept the value of what is included in the GFA on the nationality issue.

(even if he seemed happy enough to play for us as a youth).

FIFA have determined based on years of experience that young kids such as Darron should not be tied to a country even if they appeared happy at the age of 16 to do so. Who knows how happy he was, maybe he realised at 17 that he was not so happy.
FIFA allow a young player plenty of time, up to the age of 21 before making a final decision.

**RogerMilla** · 29/08/2007, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Or put it another way: how would ROI fans feel if the UK and Irish Government came to some sort of agreement, for purely political (i.e. non-footballing) reasons, which suddenly meant that all ROI citizens were suddenly eligible for a UK Passport, so that a section of your player pool now had the option of representing England? It would not ever be likely to be many players in practice, but even if it was only a few who were attracted by the huge extra money, prestige etc associated with playing for England, that would be significantly to the detriment of your team, especially since it would likely be the better players.
There would be a serious outcry in the Republic, of that I'm certain.

There would be no outcry because no one would play for england. EG you really have no idea of our mindset at all. I admire you for your efforts at interaction but you just don't get it.

**fhtb** · 29/08/2007, 1:17 PM

Fhtb what are your own views on this matter?

I believe you are one of those unique individuals who were born and bred in the south yet support NI so I think we would find your opinion illuminating on this subject?

Simple enough really - I believe the 3 basic rules should be adhered to.

btw - i qualify to support NI via the 2nd rule...

**gspain** · 29/08/2007, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Darron is ruled eligible now. No matter what FIFA may change in the future he will remain eligible. And he would not be allowed to change even if he wanted to.

He is not allowed to change now. However if FIFA rule (they have not ruled on this) that he is ineligible then he would be allowed to declare for NI if he wanted to.

**gspain** · 29/08/2007, 1:20 PM

I don't understand how Maik Taylor qualifies under the new rules.

He was born in Germany, holds a British passport however he has not lived in NI for 2 years, nor has a parent or grandparent born in NI.

He qualifies for NI because he qualified under the old rules. However had he not played International football before now I can't see how he could now declare for NI.

**Maroon 7** · 29/08/2007, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by fhtb

Simple enough really - I believe the 3 basic rules should be adhered to.

btw - i qualify to support NI via the 2nd rule...

You support NI because you lived there for 2 or more years?

I thought it would be have been because of something more meaningful or substantial.

**geysir** · 29/08/2007, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

He is not allowed to change now. However if FIFA rule (they have not ruled on this) that he is ineligible then he would be allowed to declare for NI if he wanted to.

On what specific rule or precedent are you basing this?

**fhtb** · 29/08/2007, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Maroon 7

You support NI because you lived there for 2 or more years?

I thought it would be have been because of something more meaningful or substantial.

sorry i thought you were refering to the dryer machinations. You can read much more of this on owc but basically if NI didn't exist I wouldn't feel Irish. I like the place so much/needed to get a job/an education, I moved there. Quite a few in my position did and do the same thing.

**Maroon 7** · 29/08/2007, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by fhtb

sorry i thought you were refering to the dryer machinations. You can read much more of this on owc but basically if NI didn't exist I wouldn't feel Irish. I like the place so much/needed to get a job/an education, I moved there. Quite a few in my position did and do the same thing.

Well that all sounds a bit odd but fair enough.

But to be fair you could hardly have any complaints then about the likes of Darron Gibson wanting to play for ROI.

**fhtb** · 29/08/2007, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Maroon 7

Well that all sounds a bit odd but fair enough.

But to be fair you could hardly have any complaints then about the likes of Darron Gibson wanting to play for ROI.

I understand where he's coming from (up to a point).

But, the issue is about FIFA eligibility not the whims of a few border hoppers like me or him.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 29/08/2007, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by fhtb

I understand where he's coming from (up to a point).

But, the issue is about FIFA eligibility not the whims of a few border hoppers like me or him.

I might've asked you this over on OWC a good while back FHTB but ...does this mean that in the event you were good and able enough to play football professionally you'd happily resign yourself to playing for ROI? ...leaving your two year residency aside now as we can assume you wouldn't get called up if it was an IL side you were playing for?

**fhtb** · 29/08/2007, 2:40 PM

I'm a realist. I accept there's a border - if FIFA's rules prevented me playing for OWC, so be it. But you'se would be getting a great asset mind, so i'd shut up about this whole thing if I were the FAI

**gspain** · 29/08/2007, 4:29 PM

>>>Originally Posted by gspain
He is not allowed to change now. However if FIFA rule (they have not ruled on this) that he is ineligible then he would be allowed to declare for NI if he wanted to.>>>>>>>

Originally Posted by geysir

On what specific rule or precedent are you basing this?

Basic natural justice. If FIFA rule he is not eligible to play for us he cannot be tied to us for International football. He would then be eligible for NI.

**geysir** · 29/08/2007, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by fhtb

I understand where he's coming from (up to a point).

But, the issue is about FIFA eligibility not the whims of a few border hoppers like me or him.

Nor fortunatly is it based on IFA perceptions of what FIFA statutes are about.
It is about FIFA statutes protecting the right of footballers in choosing the country that gives them automatic citizenship. Cast in stone.

**geysir** · 29/08/2007, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

>>>Originally Posted by gspain
He is not allowed to change now. However if FIFA rule (they have not ruled on this) that he is ineligible then he would be allowed to declare for NI if he wanted to.>>>>>>>

Basic natural justice. If FIFA rule he is not eligible to play for us he cannot be tied to us for International football. He would then be eligible for NI.

Where did you dig that up from

I asked on what FIFA statute is that based on or is there a precedent that you can refer to.
I can hardly quote your idea of what natural justice is.

**NeilMcD** · 29/08/2007, 4:53 PM

I think what GSpain is saying is that if FIFA rule that he cannot play for the Republic of Ireland it therefore means that he should play for Northern Ireland and they cannot also rule that he cannot play for Northern IReland as he already played for the Republic of Ireland.

That is why they are not going to rule on it at all.

**geysir** · 29/08/2007, 4:57 PM

Then residency rules okay, he can play for England

**EalingGreen** · 29/08/2007, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Where did you dig that up from

I asked on what FIFA statute is that based on or is there a precedent that you can refer to.
I can hardly quote your idea of what natural justice is.

Although Gspain's reasoning is valid enough (imo), it doesn't actually need "natural justice" to support it.

In this whole issue, the one single certainty which should not be overlooked is that Gibson was unquestionably eligible for NI.

Of course, if his switch to the ROI is confirmed by FIFA, then he is now tied in. However, if FIFA eventually determine that he should not have been told he was eligible for ROI, it is still open to the player to pursue an international career with NI (should he choose).

There was a precedent a wee while back whereby Brian McLean had represented Scotland, his country of birth, as a youth player. He then wanted to represent NI, his parents/grandparents(?) birthplace.

Due to a typical screw-up by the IFA, they omitted to register his switch during an amnesty period for over-21's. FIFA therefore determined he should not subsequently have been allowed to represent NI. He is still eligible for Scotland, however. (Though whether they will ever pick him is highly unlikely, as it happens)

**geysir** · 29/08/2007, 5:01 PM

I don't know what part of this people do not get
a letter from Heinz Tannler, Director of FIFA's Legal Division, and Corina Luck, Head of their General Legal department stated 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'."
Sent to the IFA on OCT 2006.
in reference to the present situation of Irish citizens born in the North declaring for Ireland

This mythical waiting for a FIFA ruling,
its like they are all Waiting for Godot