Your rightOriginally Posted by youngirish
I apologise but you see my point?!
I haven't manufactured anything. FIFA haven't ruled on the issue and it is still under consideration for over 18 months.
DG has a right to Irish citizenship. That is not in dispute. It is open to interpretation whether or not he qualifies to play for the RoI football team. I think he does but it is not cut and dried.
Maik Taylor would not qualify for NI now but the rules are not applied retrospectively. He did qualify when he was first picked.
Your right
IF FIFA rule that he is ineligible for us then he will be allowed play for NI. He has however stated it is us or nobody.
No need for apologies I abuse everyone on the site.Your right
thats about all you do!!
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Why wouldn't he qualify now? He's a naturalised British citizen. He can pick any of the four British teams provided he hadn't played for someone else in a full international. Don't the four British teams have an exemption?
Their player options are probably double to what they admit too. There are more naturalised British citizens in Britain than there are people in the whole of O6C. That's where they can pick their players from in the unlikely situation of all nationalists, and the odd rotten prod, 'defecting' to Mexico.
And don't give me this 'we want our own players from our own wee country [sic.]'. The IFA have had no problem picking naturalised Britons for years, which sort of damages the poor, victimised IFA picture they are currently portraying. As does the previous booing of these players they claim to love and not want to let go. Won't mention the death threat as that was, according to some on ourweeminds, Uncle Gerry and Martin with a 20p piece, who made that call.
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
By FIFA's Legal standards this is a ruling. Why do think they are still considering it? In particular reference to the present situation, Oct 2006.
"letter from Heinz Tannler, Director of FIFA's Legal Division, and Corina Luck, Head of their General Legal department stated 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'."
Only by the IFA interpretation, not by FIFA Legal dept. as evident in the letter from Oct 2006 and as evident by the consistent FIFA arbitrations over the yearsDG has a right to Irish citizenship. That is not in dispute. It is open to interpretation whether or not he qualifies to play for the RoI football team. I think he does but it is not cut and dried.
I don't know Maik Taylor's status.Maik Taylor would not qualify for NI now but the rules are not applied retrospectively. He did qualify when he was first picked.
Darron is ruled eligible now. No matter what FIFA may change in the future he will remain eligible. And he would not be allowed to change even if he wanted to.
Which, to the devastation of many Northern Ireland 'fans', he has no intention of doing!
Why can’t they just leave it? Even if they are successful in proving Gibson should not be playing for us, all that will come out of it is a young 19 year olds dream of playing for the country he always dreamed of will be shattered. He has made it clear he does not want to play for the North so that should be the end of it.
In their defence, they are also looking at the wider issue. There are a number of young players born in the North who have chosen to play for us. Of course, this is irritating those north of the border and they would like FIFA to rule that this is not a legal move. This is what is being debated, however badly I believe it has been debated. Mainly down to the fact that I don't see where the debate arises from, he has an Irish passport, therefore he can play for Ireland!
You are quite correct that Maik Taylor would still qualify, since the specific Exemption to which you refer in FIFA's Regs is still in place.
However, you greatly overstate the actual availability of naturalised Britons who would both play for NI and whom we would also have. The vast majority live in Great Britain, so would inevitably opt first for England, Scotland or Wales who between them offer a wide range of standards. Which explains why in the last 30 years, there have been only two that I can think of whom NI have picked that way, (both keepers, as it happens).
The first was Trevor Woods who gained a solitary cap as a second half substitute in a game vs Liechtenstein in 1995. Being Jersey-born, had he not been eligible for a British Association, he would not have been eligible for any international team, which is hardly fair imo. (It was the same with Matt Le Tissier, even if England never knew how to use his talent properly!)
The second was Taylor. Although born in Germany (father was in the forces), afaik he was brought up in South Africa, at a time when it was not a member of FIFA, so international football was not an option available to him. And by the time SA was readmitted (1992), Taylor had moved to England, where he was starting his playing career with Farnborough Town.
Further, it is 8 years since he made his debut for NI; since then, no Naturalized Briton has played for NI under the UK Passport exception, nor even been seriously considered (to my knowledge). Indeed, both Sanchez and the IFA publicly took a hard line on not picking players with some NI connection when the subject was raised a couple of years back.
Anyhow, whilst interesting in its own right, this deviation towards discussing the cases of Taylor and Woods has no real relevance to the Gibson case, since both are specifically covered by a FIFA exemption in a way which Gibson is not (whether he is eligible for the ROI by another means or otherwise)
Lee Trundle turned down Lawrie Sanchez IIRC.
As the IFA have consistently pointed out, this is nothing personal against Gibson. If he doesn't want to play for NI there is no way we could or would force him (even if he seemed happy enough to play for us as a youth).
However, there may well be other players who aren't actually bothered either way i.e. they just wish to play football, without regard to political considerations, and will pick the most attractive options open to them.
As such the IFA risks a significant dilution of an already small player pool, which in itself would be bad enough. But invariably the players concerned were first discovered and nurtured by the IFA, inc. Gibson, whose professed lifelong affinity to the ROI only is perhaps questionable, considering he has disclosed that a falling out with an IFA coach over being allowed leave from the NI team he was playing for (to attend a trial at MU) was partly behind his switching.
Further, all the Northern players who have been selected, plus those who have been approached but declined, are from the Nationalist community, so that the NI team risks being turned into a de facto Unionist-only team, through no fault of its own and completely contrary to its wishes.
And, of course, we are only facing this situation now because the FAI, under Brian Kerr, unilaterally broke a Gentleman's Agreement, brokered by FIFA in 1950(?), whereby the FAI agreed not to select Northern players and the IFA not to select Southern players (which both had been doing). which again would be bad enough, were it not for the fact that with the Agreement broken, the flow of players is only ever going to be one way, to the disadvantage of only one party (and not the one which broke the Agreement, either).
Or put it another way: how would ROI fans feel if the UK and Irish Government came to some sort of agreement, for purely political (i.e. non-footballing) reasons, which suddenly meant that all ROI citizens were suddenly eligible for a UK Passport, so that a section of your player pool now had the option of representing England? It would not ever be likely to be many players in practice, but even if it was only a few who were attracted by the huge extra money, prestige etc associated with playing for England, that would be significantly to the detriment of your team, especially since it would likely be the better players.
There would be a serious outcry in the Republic, of that I'm certain.
I don't know any NI fans who would be "devastated". And even the MU fans would be considerably more upset if for some reason we lost Jonny Evans (or even young Craig Cathcart).
From what I can gather, the reaction has ranged all the way from disappointment Gibson's not available, through not being bothered about him if the player himself is not bothered about us, to a minority(?) who resent him for choosing as he has done.
For myself, whilst I find it disappointing that his preference is for another team, I am in no position to wish him ill; indeed, if it should turn out that FIFA finally considers he should be eligible, then I wish him good luck in his career.
Equally, should FIFA decide he is not eligible, then I would be quite prepared to welcome him back for consideration for NI (even if it is v.unlikely he would avail of that option)
18 pages down lads only another 70 to go on this topic and we have outdone OWC.
Except that in FIFA's 3 main criteria on eligibility, holding a passport is not mentioned once.
When it comes down to it, FIFA will judge based not on bi-lateral political settlements to which they are not signatories, but to protect the interests of their member associations. Losing the dubious ability to select players outside of the FAI's jurisdiction will do no harm to their credibility long term, losing the ability to select from all sections of the community in NI would do untold damage to the IFA.
Depending on the amount of bile this post attracts, this is probably my first & last on this board/thread.
You are not on OWC now, you are welcome, and thats a fair post. we wont come on saying something like "grow a pair of balls will ye" or use such a terms as "northern prod" etc, as i noticed to me at least a term of the same emotional effect was used to describe a poster on your site from ROI.Depending on the amount of bile this post attracts, this is probably my first & last on this board/thread.
EG, in fairness your second last post was a very fair post and for once I couldn't sense any hidden subtext of bitterness. On that fair play.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Why on earth would your post attract any amount of bile? Or, as I've seen one poster on the OWC's mirror thread, have you come here to feel oppressed?Depending on the amount of bile this post attracts, this is probably my first & last on this board/thread.
The holder of an Irish passport is a de facto Irish national, citizenship is the means by which FIFA test eligibility, QED. We don't hand out passports/citizenship willy-nilly [anymore], you know.
I'm glad you read usIt's just a few of the posts I've read on this thread aren't exactly on topic.
FIFA test eligibility based on whether the player -The holder of an Irish passport is a de facto Irish national, citizenship is the means by which FIFA test eligibility, QED.
1) Born in the country
2) Lives in the country for a period of at least 2 years
3) parents/grandparents born in country.
The extra-territorial decree by the Republic on what it thinks an Irish citizen would appear to be irrelevant to the above straightforward rules. As I said there is a lot for OWC to lose in all of this, less so for the FAI.
ps O'Shea don't confuse passion for hatred!!!!
Since 1880
Fhtb what are your own views on this matter?
I believe you are one of those unique individuals who were born and bred in the south yet support NI so I think we would find your opinion illuminating on this subject?
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