Next season's strike force

**cavan_fan** · 15/05/2007, 9:43 PM

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Certaintly not, it looked like he missed by at least a yard (and he seemed be to more placing it than blasting it too) Mind you he certaintly managed to find the back of the next when he headed (edit: I think he mis-kicked) into his own goal.
Anyway he is not going to get promoted, Southampton just lost penalties.

I'm now going to base a judgement on having watched him for 50 minutes. He seems an idle sod and offside all the time

**beautifulrock** · 15/05/2007, 9:49 PM

and Best took a very casual peno in the shoot out, looks good if it goes in but if it dosent well then.....

**eirebhoy** · 15/05/2007, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by reder

Oh, so a good run of games for the mighty Falkirk makes you international class all of a sudden.

You can put it whatever way you like but I've seen enough of Stokes to make a judgement on him. He's a great finisher, great positional sense and a player that probably won't be affected much by confidence because of his character. I think the confidence thing is important because many players go on a great run of scoring on a high of confidence, like David Healy for N.Ireland. Stokes doesn't seem to be a confidence player to me.

Originally Posted by reder

Richie Foran would have made the squad as a result of his motherwell form by those measures.

Excluding penos Foran scored 3 goals in the SPL this season and i've never been impressed with him.

**tricky_colour** · 15/05/2007, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I'm now going to base a judgement on having watched him for 50 minutes. He seems an idle sod and offside all the time

I would not make a judgement one the basis of just one game, he did some good work to set up a chance but that penalty looked pretty dreadful, maybe the own goal was unlucky, I just hope he does not have a habit of being "unlucky"!! First time I have seen him play really.

**youngirish** · 16/05/2007, 9:22 AM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

You can put it whatever way you like but I've seen enough of Stokes to make a judgement on him. He's a great finisher, great positional sense and a player that probably won't be affected much by confidence because of his character. I think the confidence thing is important because many players go on a great run of scoring on a high of confidence, like David Healy for N.Ireland. Stokes doesn't seem to be a confidence player to me.

Excluding penos Foran scored 3 goals in the SPL this season and i've never been impressed with him.

Eirebhoy you can't make a judgement on the International pedigree of a player when all he's done is bang in a few goals against opposition such as St Mirren and Inverness. It's a totally different class of football. Chances don't just come to you against good defences (unlike in the SPL). You have to work and make space to create them yourself. It's a totally different ball game and I said Stokes could easily struggle for Sunderland at the time of his move and I happened to be right (as always - it's a curse).

Anyway I think Stokes could be a good player in the future for Ireland but he's not at this present time good enough to be even on the bench irrespective of his goals in the SPL. Long and Murphy are both better alternatives at present. Next season is a big one for him.

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I'm now going to base a judgement on having watched him for 50 minutes. He seems an idle sod and offside all the time

As for Best we saw last night that he's no defender (as is the case with John O'Shea) but I think he has talent (unlike John O'Shea). I think he's a similar sort of player to our Clinton when he was younger but we'll see if he improves with age (Clinton unfortunately didn't get much better as he matured). He played a nice ball in for the second goal last night but his peno was cack. Still not sure he's commited to Ireland though.

**Stuttgart88** · 16/05/2007, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Still not sure he's commiteed to Ireland though.

One way to find out: call him up to replace Folan.

**eirebhoy** · 16/05/2007, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Eirebhoy you can't make a judgement on the International pedigree of a player when all he's done is bang in a few goals against opposition such as St Mirren and Inverness.

I can, I can, I can.

I'm sure you think Celtic are a bit mad paying �4.5m for a 21 year old who is only proven in the SPL? Definitely not in my opinion.

**youngirish** · 16/05/2007, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I can, I can, I can.

I'm sure you think Celtic are a bit mad paying �4.5m for a 21 year old who is only proven in the SPL? Definitely not in my opinion.

Not really. If he has proven that he can do the job in the SPL then that's exactly what they require and hence he's worth the money to them. Whether a Premiership club would pay anywhere near as much for the same player, I'd be surprised.

I haven't seen the lad play so I can't really comment though Scotland do have a good U19 team and he was captain of it as far as I know so he probably is decent.

**Torn-Ado** · 16/05/2007, 12:21 PM

Regarding the Stokes issue. The lad scored something like three hattricks and 14 or 15 goals in total in a half season in the SPL. Doing that in any league is a fine achievement. Especially for a young player.

Stokes will be a quality player. I'm sure of it.

**eirebhoy** · 16/05/2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Not really. If he has proven that he can do the job in the SPL then that's exactly what they require and hence he's worth the money to them. Whether a Premiership club would pay anywhere near as much for the same player, I'd be surprised.

Celtic won't sign players that they don't feel will be good enough for the Champions league. Their targets are no different to those of Newcastle, Bolton, etc. 2 or 3 premiership clubs actually offered more than Celtic for Brown (source: his agent).

There are plenty of players I'd have doubts about stepping up to Champions league / international level but I definitely think Stokes is good enough and will be a great player.

**Torn-Ado** · 16/05/2007, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Celtic won't sign players that they don't feel will be good enough for the Champions league. Their targets are no different to those of Newcastle, Bolton, etc. 2 or 3 premiership clubs actually offered more than Celtic for Brown (source: his agent).

There are plenty of players I'd have doubts about stepping up to Champions league / international level but I definitely think Stokes is good enough and will be a great player.

Hartley, Riordan and McDonald are anything but champions league level IMO.

**eirebhoy** · 16/05/2007, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

Hartley, Riordan and McDonald are anything but champions league level IMO.

Strachan is not going to sign a player that he thinks is good enough for the SPL but not the Champions league. If Celtic qualify for the CL next season Scott McDonald will play his part.

Anyway, my point is that you can judge a player in the SPL as easy as any other league imo. I've seen enough of Stokes and believe he's good enough for the Ireland squad.

**Torn-Ado** · 16/05/2007, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Strachan is not going to sign a player that he thinks is good enough for the SPL but not the Champions league. If Celtic qualify for the CL next season Scott McDonald will play his part.

Anyway, my point is that you can judge a player in the SPL as easy as any other league imo. I've seen enough of Stokes and believe he's good enough for the Ireland squad.

I agree with you about Stokes.

I don't agree with Strachan though.

**KopKiller** · 16/05/2007, 1:02 PM

Stokes might have the ability to be a quality international player, then again, he might not.

Lets face it, he has only scored goals against 2nd rate opposition so far (sorry that includes Celtic) and has hardly played as a striker for Sunderland so we will see how he gets on in the premiership next season, if keane thinks he is good enough to play that is, doesnt look good if David Connolly is fancied ahead of him.

In saying that, i dont think Murphy or Best can make international players either. I would be more hopefull of Keogh stepping up the grade, he looks quality from what ive seen.

But in reply to the original post, it is great that we have so many strikers to choose from, gone are the days when Gary Doherty was wheeled on for the last 10 minutes.

If we could only find a new top class central midfielder, perhaps even two we would be laughing.

**Torn-Ado** · 16/05/2007, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by KopKiller

But in reply to the original post, it is great that we have so many strikers to choose from, gone are the days when Gary Doherty was wheeled on for the last 10 minutes.

Yes but Doherty was usually wheeled on, not because the strikers were incompetetent but the midfielders who didn't have a creative clue in their heads.

**danonion** · 16/05/2007, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

Yes but Doherty was usually wheeled on, not because the strikers were incompetetent but the midfielders who didn't have a creative clue in their heads.

In fairness to Doherty we've had worse people up top in the last 10 minutes and there was that gane against Scotland...

**youngirish** · 16/05/2007, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by danonion

In fairness to Doherty we've had worse people up top in the last 10 minutes and there was that gane against Scotland...

Like who?

**jbyrne** · 18/05/2007, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by danonion

In fairness to Doherty we've had worse people up top in the last 10 minutes and there was that gane against Scotland...

agreed. doherty scored same crucial goals when coming on in last 10 mins or so v georgia, russia and albania from my memory.

theres no denying that we have suffered since we havnt had a target man up front. doyle is good an the ball and good in the air so hopefully he can fill the roll from now on to some extent