QuoteI looked up Foggia. Three relegations in five years!
Dundee United went from UEFA Cup finalists to Scottish First division in 8 seasons, not quite as dramatic or steep though.
Didn't Swansea shoot up the divisions and slide back down in succession? MK Dons are another team. FA Cup winners in the 1980's, dropped from Premier Division to bottom flight in the space of a decade. I think Swindon had a fairly steep fall from Premiership to bottom flight too.
I looked up Foggia. Three relegations in five years!
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Yes, basically. Our rise was mostly built on the back of money though, like Leeds.Originally Posted by Poor Student
We're coming back up though now so Cardiff had better watch out next year
They were in Division 4 when Al Fayed took control less than ten years ago, and hadn't been in the top flight for forty years when they won promotion a few years ago.
Opps. Trouble is I remember them playing the top flight 40 years agoWhere have all those years gone? I just assumed they had been knocking around the 1st division since then. Didn't realise Dodi's dad took them all the way from the old 4th. May be he'll open a Harrods in Sheffield.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
We seem to forget Fiorentina. They certainly recovered well after there spectacular capitulation. It's good to see them doing relatively in Serie A. I always thought their fans added a bit of colour and flavour to Serie A.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
Not entirely true. David O'Leary attended an interview for the job where HE asked the interview panel -essentially Ridsdale -"what do you want from the team and what do want from me?" The answer he got involved consistent challenges for the title and even more consistent CL qualification. O'Leary answered along the lines of "fine ... but it's going to cost X amount because we're going to need him, him, him, him and him to join the club if we're going to deliver what you want".
If it had been Arsene Wenger, Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or anyone else they could only have given the same answer. That Ridsdale was playing fast and loose with vast amounts of other peoples money which there was no real capacity to repay was essentially none of David O'Learys business.
And in defence of Ridsdale(these are uncertain waters for me) -if this man, now an absolute hate figure for many Leeds supporters, had sat down over a pint with those same supporters back a decade ago and said "look we're facing the near unbroken mid-table mediocrity endured by the Evertons, Villas, Spurs' etc... unless we try something brazen to crack open the Man U-Arsenal-Liverpool closed shop. Here's what I propose..." I'm guessing a good number would've backed him and if the gamble had come off none of them would've been condemning him for recklessness with their clubs existence ...he'd be glorified as a cavalier, high roller who took on the establishment and won.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Article on Leeds' decline here in today's Daily Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai...1/sfnmot01.xml
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Yes IF it had come off but you have to wonder where he was getting the money from. Cause unlike Chelsea who did pull it off, iirc, they didn't have a big mega-rich sugar daddy. That's why Ridsdale shouldn't have gone the way he did.And in defence of Ridsdale
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
Going back a bit, Pro Vercelli were the most successful club in italy before professionalism turned them from a fantastic side into a small club in a small town. Dropped like a stoned from Serie A and they are now in Serie C2A...
...although I've gotten them back to serie A in football manager
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That's different though - they were kicked out of the league and reformed. Leeds, and the others being mooted, have been relegated of their own inability.
A few others, I suppose -
Northampton went from Division Four to Division One in five seasons, and back to Division Four in the next four seasons. Three promotions and three relegations in 9 seasons.
Swansea did the exact same.
Scarborough were in Division Three a few years ago - relegated by Carlisle keeper Jimmy Glass' injury time winner in 1999, I think - and have now been relegated from Conference South (or North, can't remember). I think this is far down as any former league club has gone without going broke and starting again.
In Italy, Castel di Sangro's rise to Serie B is well known; they stayed up in 1996/97, but were relegated to Serie C1 in 1997/98, to C2 in 2001/02, to Serie D in 2002/03, to Eccelenza (sixth level) in 2003/04 and to the regional leagues in 2004/05. They were top of the Abruzzo regional league Group A after 19 games of this season.
For the record, this is Fulham's third spell in the top flight. They spent 15 years in the bottom two divisions before Al Fayed took over.
Very true - Managers as a breed look for the money, its up to the Chairman to weigh up whether its provided or not. The incapacity to pay had **** all to do with O'Leary's role.Not entirely true. David O'Leary attended an interview for the job where HE asked the interview panel -essentially Ridsdale -"what do you want from the team and what do want from me?" The answer he got involved consistent challenges for the title and even more consistent CL qualification. O'Leary answered along the lines of "fine ... but it's going to cost X amount because we're going to need him, him, him, him and him to join the club if we're going to deliver what you want".
If it had been Arsene Wenger, Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or anyone else they could only have given the same answer. That Ridsdale was playing fast and loose with vast amounts of other peoples money which there was no real capacity to repay was essentially none of David O'Learys business.
And in defence of Ridsdale
Quoting years at random since 1975
I hate to argue with a Leeds fan, but having just heard Ridsdale on Radio 4's "On the Ropes" this morning, I have to say that there is no defence of Ridsdale, none. A local lad, he supported them since childhood. He was successful in business, so was invited onto the Board as a Non-Exec Director. After seven years, he became Executive Chairman (handsomely remunerated, I might add).Not entirely true. David O'Leary attended an interview for the job where HE asked the interview panel -essentially Ridsdale -"what do you want from the team and what do want from me?" The answer he got involved consistent challenges for the title and even more consistent CL qualification. O'Leary answered along the lines of "fine ... but it's going to cost X amount because we're going to need him, him, him, him and him to join the club if we're going to deliver what you want".
If it had been Arsene Wenger, Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or anyone else they could only have given the same answer. That Ridsdale was playing fast and loose with vast amounts of other peoples money which there was no real capacity to repay was essentially none of David O'Learys business.
And in defence of Ridsdale
He then proceeeded to "chase the dream" as he saw it. In order to try to compete with the top clubs, he borrowed huge amounts of money, at exorbitant interest rates, from lenders who retained a financial interest in the players (i.e. if it went wrong, the club took the hit, but if it went right, the lenders took the profit).
The only possible way Leeds could service these debts was by qualifying for the Champions League every season which, as we all know, simply cannot be guaranteed*. As an experienced businessman and football director, Ridsdale either knew this and took a chance anyhow, or knew it but wouldn't admit it, or didn't know it. Whichever, the buck stops with him and he should have resigned as soon as it became apparent, to allow a successor the best possible chance of turning it round. Instead, he clung on until supporter abuse forced him out. Even now, he denies responsibility, blaming others or just "bad luck".
We all dream; I'd like to live in a big house by the river. If I borrowed every penny I could from everyone I knew, added to whatever mortgage the bank would give me, I might just manage it some day. But when (not if) I find I can't make the repayments, then I know I'll be repossessed, the bank will get whatever is left, and it's my friends and family who will be shafted. At that stage, I wouldn't receive too much sympathy if I blamed those who lent me the money, or my "bad luck" that interest rates rose.
As for O'Leary, it is correct to say that any manager will spend whatever money the Board will sanction. However, there is still an onus on him to recommend the right players at the right money. Leeds spent £12million on Robbie Fowler when they already had six other strikers at the club; they paid way over the odds (£6M?) on an average player, Seth Johnson, and apparently offered him four times the wages he was expecting, without his even having to negotiate. A Board of Directors is entitled to expect expert advice on technical matters from their most senior employee. O'Leary clearly did not supply that.
Further, his record at Villa merely demonstrated what was disguised at Leeds by his early (apparent) success at Leeds; namely, he's not a good man manager. In both cases, he took over the team and by telling everybody how good they were and how much he liked them, they responded by upping their game. He added to the squad by signing anyone he could, regardless of value. Then when the gloss wore off, and some of the senior players began to see through him, he turned to the youngsters, who were still "star-struck" by him. Then, when the better players moved on and the kids began to struggle, he variously blamed their youth, the Board (for not sanctioning more purchases), bad luck, injuries etc etc etc - everything but himself.
Through it all, however, he'll have angled and spun to keep the right people happy, whether these be the Board, the supporters, the Press or whatever, until the inevitable caught up with him. Then again, as Tony Cascarino always says, he's the sort of Manager who might not remember the name of his Youth team captain, but will never forget the Chairman's Wife's Birthday!
Leeds were always going to be in trouble with Ridsdale and his cronies in charge; O'Leary merely ensured the fall was quicker and further than it might otherwise have been.
* - Apparently when Liverpool were at their peak, they used to budget for 42 League games, one FA Cup game and one League Cup game during the coming season. Any additional revenue from Cup runs, Europe etc was a bonus, with the extra to be spent the following season on player transfers (which qualified as a tax write-off).
Last edited by EalingGreen; 01/05/2007 at 1:18 PM.
I'm just playing devils advocate in relation to Ridsdale. He used Leeds fans as yet unborn as collateral to secure loans and I'll never forget it.
As for O'Leary -or Cascasrinos opinion of him - while O'Leary, his character and managment skills are far from flawless -I know who I'd rather be sat next to on aeroplane making an emergency landing, I can guess who'd jump out before me or after me and I can guess who's more likely to be found face down in a ditch with a bullet in the back of his skull too.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Theres a couple of nice youtube videos about this, but I like this one best
Richie Cresswell....what a ****ing liability!
Lovely.
The tit who made it goes for the "look on Leeds fans face" line before cutting to a shot of the crown of someones skull and then flashing a three year old file picture of a child from the day we dropped out of the premiership AND THEN mispells PRICELESS.
Are the Fás supervisors watching what the second chance candidates are up to when they're supposed to working on their ECDL at all at all at all?
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
PS - see my earlier post on this for clarification.
MK Dons and Wimbledon FC are not the same team, they're merely related.
The MK Dons club and supporters agreed to hand over Wimbledon FC's miniature FA Cup trophy (that winners get to keep) and all the other WFC paraphenalia they had to Merton Borough Council (which contains Wimbledon) only last October.
So even Franchise FC themselves have publically acknowledged that their claim on Wimbledon FC's history is scant and not worth physically clinging on to.
AFC Wimbledon are the heirs to Wimbledon FC. Same badge, same colours, same fans, same part of London, same heroes. None of these can be said re the MK Dons.
Steve, I couldn't care less. The point of the thread is not to split hairs over MK Dons/Wimbledon. The same entity has plummeted from the top flight to the bottom flight.
He also claimed Richard Cresswell cost £1,150,000 MILLION-that's £1,150,000,000,000,000 or 150 thousand trillion pounds to the rest of us.
No wonder Leeds are in a bit of a financial pickle......
It's a mere £1,150,000,000,000 - 1000 times less than you accuse Mr Ridsdale of wasting.
Also, I don't think that's a typo at the end, but rather an allusion to Leeds fans' genital problems.
Most of these Leeds fans look like a bald version of Elton John.
On Saturday Ridsdale was blaming Dave O'Leary, that he just couldn't say no to big Dave. He has a point though when he says the slide coincided with Dave's book.
Is there any other big team whoose decline started with a book?
Could any book, even a book by O'Leary be so catastrophic?
Maybe the audio version could enduce a mass outbreak of overwhelming nausea.
Imagine anyone forking out cash to buy a book by D O'L.
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