Irish UK Club Football Bangwagon Jumpers -Irish Footballs Number 1 enemy

**stampp** · 18/04/2007, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

A rather naive question about Irish clubs there Stampp. Of course Irish teams have generational support. We're not Australia or America - competitive senior association football has been around in Ireland since the late 1800's. The island even gave the game key developmental things like penalties and corner kicks.

...

So that's why I said to enjoy the sound of Irish accents round the Stadium of Light whilst you can. They'll all be gone within 5 years....

Good point about the penalty kick and history in Ireland. I just never saw that much interest in football when I lived there in the 70s and 80s - it all seemed to be about the 2 main gaelic games, so I wondered if there was really the same depth and history of passion and support for the football teams. But tbh, I just don't know.

The abrupt response to your last point - and don't jump to take this the wrong way - is that, viewed as a Sunderland supporter, it really doesn't matter much. As I said before, it's a traditional club with deep local support - at the end of the day if a few hundred fans come from Ireland to join 40000 mackems it's absolutely great and we'll really enjoy having them and hope they'll stay, but if they don't - well they'll be missed, but a few hundred isn't going to make much difference to the club, is it?

**gspain** · 18/04/2007, 1:52 PM

stampp, football is the biggest sport in the country by a long way. This may not be true in Offaly where you lived but very obvious in Dublin etc.

However this translates into support for the national team and for a premiership club as opposed to a local team. This support can be fickle too hence the huge recent interest in your club and in Reading (Kevin Doyle etc). Liverpool an dMan Utd would normally be the big 2 with Leeds very strong also

The Darlington analogy is a good one. The only benefit we have here is that these "fans" are as likely to change their allegiance much quicker. Some are incredibly loyal and do go to great lengths (and expense) to follow their team but others will jump on bandwagons.

**nedder** · 18/04/2007, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

stampp, football is the biggest sport in the country by a long way. This may not be true in Offaly where you lived but very obvious in Dublin etc.

However this translates into support for the national team and for a premiership club as opposed to a local team. This support can be fickle too hence the huge recent interest in your club and in Reading (Kevin Doyle etc). Liverpool an dMan Utd would normally be the big 2 with Leeds very strong also

The Darlington analogy is a good one. The only benefit we have here is that these "fans" are as likely to change their allegiance much quicker. Some are incredibly loyal and do go to great lengths (and expense) to follow their team but others will jump on bandwagons.

I think this thread is throwing up more questions than answers. football is the biggest sport participation wise, but gaelic games has a far larger following throughout the country. I think for many people football is entertainment, not a passion. I t was mentioned earlier in this thread about sunderland having a deep rooted history in their area, and unfortunately a lot of eL clubs don't have the same history or ties with the local community, I believe that this is the first area that should be worked upon to increase crowds and interest.

**BohDiddley** · 18/04/2007, 7:29 PM

Originally Posted by nedder

I t was mentioned earlier in this thread about sunderland having a deep rooted history in their area, and unfortunately a lot of eL clubs don't have the same history or ties with the local community, I believe that this is the first area that should be worked upon to increase crowds and interest.

If you take a shorter view, and choose to ignore the disparities in national populations, it is possible to say that many Irish football clubs don't have the roots spoken of (and that is easily supported by the paltry attendances) and then move on to dismiss the sport as dead or dying.
But if you look at it in the context of the span of club histories, it is patently false. Bohs was founded in 1890 (11 years after Sunderland). For most of its time, it has had significant support and has been an integral part of north Dublin.
The collapse in support came in the 70s and 80s, with the advent of televised British football and, especially, the similarly media-hyped rise of Gaelic games in Dublin. But Bohs hasn't gone away: the club, like many in the league, is revitalising itself, and the game can be rebuilt. In spite of Niall Quinn's beaming endorsements of Irish football, Sundireland, founded 2006, and with its roots in investor portfolios, isn't helping that process.

**stampp** · 19/04/2007, 6:48 AM

Originally Posted by BohDiddley

In spite of Niall Quinn's beaming endorsements of Irish football, Sundireland, founded 2006, and with its roots in investor portfolios, isn't helping that process.

I'm still having problems understanding this attitude - which has been expressed a few times on this thread, and indeed was the point of the thread's title.

It's not Sunderland's or Niall's responsibility to help Irish football. Niall has to do his very best for the club he is chairman of - and that's his full-time job. It's great if Irish investors are involved, and Irish fans, but the club is Sunderland - we don't exist to 'help the process' - we exist to be successful as Sunderland.

It seems self-evident, and yet there seems to be a feeling of resentment among some, that Niall is 'letting the side down'. Niall's side is Sunderland, and he is absolutely not letting them down - he has rescued them from the edge of oblivion.

**Colie** · 19/04/2007, 8:03 AM

There's a load of Irish players there. If in the Premiership who over here wouldn't want them to do well. Irish players competeing at the top level can only be good for the international scene so why wouldn't ya support them. Personally I'm up for whatever team on the day has most Irish players & after that I'm just hoping that any Irish lads over there have a good match. It's gonna come down to the fact (like every bloody LOI Vs foreign footy argument that has ever taken place here) that some of us actually support LOI & some support anything else. Quinny/ Sunderland ain't the cause/ reason for Irish footballs demise, sure it's been going on for years! I don't know why we even bother engaging in discussions like that of the last few pages cos in the end it always comes down to the same thing.

**BohsPartisan** · 19/04/2007, 8:12 AM

Personally I don't care. I hate Niall Quinn and I hate Irish Sunderland "fans", but not out of bitterness because Niall didn't invest in an Irish club, lets face it no one is going to invest in Bohs outside of sponsorship because - as we are a not for profit members club there will never be a return on that investment. I hate Niall Quinn because he is a gobsh'te plain and simple. Along with the likes of Bono he symbolises the side of Ireland I hate. (I'm obviously a begrudger) Why do I hate Irish Sunderland "fans"? For the same reason. They're morons. I don't want people like that anywhere near a league of Ireland ground. There was enough of them out when Shels played Deportivo in the third qualifying stage of the CL. Where are they now? (thats a rhetorical question by the way)

**gspain** · 19/04/2007, 8:16 AM

Originally Posted by stampp

I'm still having problems understanding this attitude - which has been expressed a few times on this thread, and indeed was the point of the thread's title.

It's not Sunderland's or Niall's responsibility to help Irish football. Niall has to do his very best for the club he is chairman of - and that's his full-time job. It's great if Irish investors are involved, and Irish fans, but the club is Sunderland - we don't exist to 'help the process' - we exist to be successful as Sunderland.

It seems self-evident, and yet there seems to be a feeling of resentment among some, that Niall is 'letting the side down'. Niall's side is Sunderland, and he is absolutely not letting them down - he has rescued them from the edge of oblivion.

OK i think the title of the thread is totally wrong. I don't think many people on here agree with it. I've no problem with Niall Quinn investing his and his investors money whereever he wishes. He is entitled to do that and he has a huge emotional attachment to Sunderland FC. I wish him well at Sunderland and thank him for his fantastic service to our national team.

However I and many others would prefer if he invested in a local club. In reality I think it is up to us here to promote our own domestic game. If one club here got half the hype Sunderland got then it would be a huge help.

**stampp** · 19/04/2007, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by gspain

OK i think the title of the thread is totally wrong. I don't think many people on here agree with it. I've no problem with Niall Quinn investing his and his investors money whereever he wishes. He is entitled to do that and he has a huge emotional attachment to Sunderland FC. I wish him well at Sunderland and thank him for his fantastic service to our national team.

However I and many others would prefer if he invested in a local club. In reality I think it is up to us here to promote our own domestic game. If one club here got half the hype Sunderland got then it would be a huge help.

Yep - good sense, IMHO. Niall has also said - more than once - that he doesn't envisage being chairman of Sunderland for as long as our last chairman. It may be that he will be looking for new challenges in a few years time. He may still get involved in the EL at some stage.

As you say - surely the best approach is to improve the domestic product - make it more exciting/comfortable/affordable/interesting/marketed... Casting envious eyes over the water just doesn't move anything forward.

**stampp** · 19/04/2007, 8:45 AM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

I hate Niall Quinn because he is a gobsh'te plain and simple. Along with the likes of Bono he symbolises the side of Ireland I hate.

Eh?

The side that comes back to a club simply because he loved it and the people, and wanted to do something about it?
The side that stuck up for his supporters when some over-reacting air-stewardess got them thrown off a plane and arranged for a fleet of taxis to take them home?
The side that sent the team bus to pick up more supporters at another away game after their own bus had been smashed by bricks thrown by some local thugs?
The side that makes him go round pubs and clubs around Sunderland meeting and talking to, and drinking with ordinary supporters?

So what side of Ireland do you prefer?

As you may gather, he's a legend around here - and gives a highly positive image for things Irish. Is that bad?

**Stuttgart88** · 19/04/2007, 9:02 AM

I live in London. I subscribe to The Irish Times online to keep in touch with news at home. I clicked on this morning's home page to see one of the headlines "Chelsea keep up pressure on United". Why should this be a front page headline in an Irish paper?

It's nothing tangible, but I always get the impression the best newspaper in Ireland treats the English league as being de facto our own league. Emmet ("The Republic" or "the South") Malone does a decent domestic piece from time to time. I think yer man in the Indo, McDonnell, does a decent job.

I'm as interested in English football as the next man, consider myself an Arsenal fan (predominatly of the armchair variety), but this emphasis is all wrong and drives me mad. Even if the focus was still markedly in favour of UK football, but if the emphasis was on any Irish involvement it'd be more appropriate.

I think Irish media interest in Sunderland is natural and for as long as they have several Irish internationals or near internationals in the team I'll wish them well. Even without the Irish, it's the type of club I like.

The thing is I see no reason for eL support and English support to be mutually exclusive. Why not go to your local club's games a dozen times a year and every few weeks go to England to catch better grounds, bigger crowds and world famous players? It's the polarized "eL good, Premiership evil" or "Premiership rules, eL is an embarrassment" that I find hard to understand. Even when I was a regular LOI goer I still had a big interest in English and Scottish football. 11-a-side.com has an editorial saying something like "Irish Devotion to Sunderland is all wrong". Who's "devoted"? Interested maybe, but are people really "devoted"?

**BohsPartisan** · 19/04/2007, 9:04 AM

Originally Posted by stampp

The side that comes back to a club simply because he loved it and the people, and wanted to do something about it?

Ah come on now do you really believe that?
Plus he's a member of Shamrock Rovers so theres another reason to hate him

What side of Ireland do I prefer? The side that supports Irish football. The side that doesn't go and live abroad to dodge tax on their millions.

**stampp** · 19/04/2007, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Ah come on now do you really believe that?
Plus he's a member of Shamrock Rovers so theres another reason to hate him

.

Yep. I think nearly all Sunderland supporters do - we buy into Niall just as Niall buys into us. We believe in one another - it's a bit of a marriage!

Ha'way, man - why leave the comfortable and easy TV studios for all the hassle of being a club chairman of the worst-ever Premiership team? You'd be mad...

**BohsPartisan** · 19/04/2007, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by stampp

Yep. I think nearly all Sunderland supporters do - we buy into Niall just as Niall buys into us. We believe in one another - it's a bit of a marriage!

Cue the Home and Away music.

Just like Tom and Pippa, this will end in tears!

**charliesboots** · 19/04/2007, 9:17 AM

Originally Posted by stampp

Ha'way, man - why leave the comfortable and easy TV studios for all the hassle of being a club chairman of the worst-ever Premiership team? You'd be mad...

Perhaps its to do with the 48,000 seater stadium and the huge amount of land around it that's owned by Sunderland, very easily developed and close to the metro line.

There wouldn't be a property developer or two among Big Niall's consortium by any chance would there?

**galwayhoop** · 19/04/2007, 9:18 AM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

The side that supports Irish football. The side that doesn't go and live abroad to dodge tax on their millions.

quinn is hardly living in sunderland to avoid paying millions in tax now is he

**BohsPartisan** · 19/04/2007, 9:23 AM

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

quinn is hardly living in sunderland to avoid paying millions in tax now is he

Was qualifying throwing Bono in there.

**stampp** · 19/04/2007, 9:26 AM

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Cue the Home and Away music.

Just like Tom and Pippa, this will end in tears!

By, but there are some cynical lads on here!

It's not like Niall has just suddenly arrived and charmed us all with his Irish blarney. The relationship has been on-going for a long time - we've 'lived together' many years before settling down...

It was several years ago, long before any thoughts of a takeover when he said, despite spells at Arsenal and Man City, that is was Sunderland that 'got under his skin'.