Dawkin's God Delusion

[jebus]

Scapegoated for it but denied it strenuously. He refers to the ten commandments in his teachings.

Of course he would, they were probably the biggest moral guidelines at the time, if he is to talk about morals at that time he would have to refer to them. And dare I say that some of those commandments ain't so bad a moral guideline to have?

See this is what I mean. What you believe is closer to Budhism or dare I say it, Jedi-ism than Christianity.

Won't deny that, I've studied Budhism too and find a lot of it useful, and George Lucas wasn't always unable to see the sunshine because he had his head up his own arse either

For what its worth take a few steps in a materialist direction and you have my views on the universe.

I'd rather not take those steps to be honest

Again thats pretty much central to being a Christian.

Not thinking Jesus is the Son of God? Or having respect for someone preaching love and tolerance?

[BohsPartisan]

Believing he was the son of God.

I'd rather not take those steps to be honest

Ah come on, the ground is solid over here.

[finlma]

Jebus,

Your beliefs seems a little muddled to me and certainly not the beliefs of a Christian. Perhaps you should envestigate other religions such as Buddhism.

Religion isn't a pick and mix thing - you don't just have the bits you believe in and the bits you don't. It either exists in 1 format or doesn't at all.

I'm still waiting on a Christian to give me a good reason why god exists?

[dahamsta]

I don't agree with that at all finmla tbh, I think that if anything, that's how religion should be. People should ignore all the bloody idiots and books telling them what to do and decide what they'd like to believe, and use that to lead their lives. That's what I've done, and I'm happy as a pig in poo with my mish-mash of weird beliefs. More importantly, I'm no harm to anyone with it, unlike the bloody fundamentalists.

adam

[BohsPartisan]

And dare I say that some of those commandments ain't so bad a moral guideline to have?

6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 7you shall have no other gods before me.

Hmmm...Not really applicable to me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 9You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me, 10but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation* of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Bit harsh don't you think? Would footie teams count as "false idols"?

11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

Not very nice either.

12 Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 13For six days you shall labour and do all your work. 14But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you. 15Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.

Hmmm...six day week? Don't fancy that much.

16 Honour your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

This is fine but do we need god to tell us that (disclaimer, its fine as long as your parents treat you well, if they are alco scumbags who sell your bed linnen to feed their drink habit I don't see why you should honour them.

17 You shall not murder.

goes without saying, yet when some of the Israelites made a gold calf to worship god ordered Moses to kill 'em. He also ordered various Israelites to wipe out various tribes.

18 Neither shall you commit adultery.

But what if you're a woman (or man) who's spouse treats you mean, should you stay keen?

19 Neither shall you steal.

Not even in the Robin Hood sense?

20 Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour.

Fair enough

21 Neither shall you covet your neighbour’s wife.

So is the wife the property of the neighbour?

Neither shall you desire your neighbour’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Slavery is fine though.

[osarusan]

Hmmm...Not really applicable to me.

He said some of them. Choosing ones that dont apply to you and using them is hardly a good arguement.

Bit harsh don't you think? Would footie teams count as "false idols"?

Would they count to you? As false idols for a religion you dont believe in?

Not very nice either.


Hmmm...six day week? Don't fancy that much.

Why the joke? Or are you really a socialist who doesnt value hard work?


This is fine but do we need god to tell us that (disclaimer, its fine as long as your parents treat you well, if they are alco scumbags who sell your bed linnen to feed their drink habit I don't see why you should honour them.

goes without saying, yet when some of the Israelites made a gold calf to worship god ordered Moses to kill 'em. He also ordered various Israelites to wipe out various tribes.

But what if you're a woman (or man) who's spouse treats you mean, should you stay keen?

Again, why the jokes?

Not even in the Robin Hood sense?

Fair enough

So is the wife the property of the neighbour?

Slavery is fine though.

Do you really think Jebus thinks that? Or thinks Christianity defends that?

Bohsparstisan, I admire a lot of your posts on here, but have to say this was a pretty weak post.

You say that anybody who does not adhere to the Christian guidelines is not a true Christian, which I disagree with. Jebus believes (I think)
that the simple message of Christianity is to be good and honest to others. Hardly deerves to be mocked.

As somebody who constantly has to defend his political beliefs with the idea that the examples given are evidence that the perpetrators do not follow those beliefs correctly, you might have more tolerance for the point he is making.

[BohsPartisan]

My point in that post is illustrated in the quote at the top it is not to ridicule Jebus's beliefs which I have no problem with. In fact if you'd read the introduction to The God Delusion, you'd see Dawkins has no real beef with the type of beliefs held by Jebus.

[finlma]

That's what I've done, and I'm happy as a pig in poo with my mish-mash of weird beliefs. More importantly, I'm no harm to anyone with it, unlike the bloody fundamentalists.

adam

I hear what you're saying Adam and it might make you happy but at the end of the day its not the truth (or is it??). Only 1 thing can happen to you after you die and its the same thing that will happen to everyone else, there can't be a filtering system with people going to different heavens and so forth.

I'm really interested to hear what Christians think will happen to the likes of myself, BohsPartisan, all Islams, Jews, Mormons, Buddhists, Hindus when we die. We will be able to come into your heaven or do we have to go and smash rocks when we meet our maker Beelzebub? This isn't directed at you Adam but perhaps Jebus or Osarasun.

Also an interesting point being made here is that the Bible teaches you do be a good person, moralistic, etc. Well I don't believe a word of it and I'm a law abiding, kind, caring person.

[dahamsta]

I don't really believe in heaven or hell, nor do I not believe in them, if you get my point. I certainly don't believe in the bible, and I reckon if there really was a Jesus, then he was probably just another bible thumper (with another bible, obviously); that's assuming he wasn't generally considered a Waco waiting to happen.

I have a set of morals and ethics that probably originate in christianity/catholicism because I was raised as such until I was 12 or so, but it all seems pretty obvious to me and I reckon I'd have them whether I had or not. However I do reckon that that middle ground between belief and non-belief in something in particular is a belief in and of itself. Call it agnosticism if you need to label. I don't, unless I meet someone that needs labels. I generally don't think it's worth talking about in general conversation.

I'm not really sure what truth has to do with it. There's a difference between belief and knowledge. I can differentiate between them.

adam

[Poor Student]

Fair comment but alot of that is based on contensious historical "evidence" (hearsay).
Somthing on the Essenes - it seems two Foot.ie posters are experts on this:

BP, I don't want to get into the whole "Was Jesus an Essene?" question. It's something I'm barely versed on, but I just wanted to point out to you that there were varying schools of thought within Judaism back then. There was at least a very clear Sadducee and Pharisee tradition. The Essenes are not as well understood, and it's possible the term encompassed a lot of fringe non-mainstream groups. The Quamran community where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found is believed to have been an example of an Essene community. Anyway, Sadducees believed in a very literal and harsh interpretation of Torah Law whereas the Pharisees believed in a more interprative approach supplemented by a strong oral tradition. You can't just say he was a Jew and as such believed in something set. He seems to have been neither a Sadducee (those would have been the High Priests who pushed for his execution or a Pharisee (they're mentioned somehwere negatively in the New Testament).

[Lionel Ritchie]

PS. 1st Corinthians 6:9-10, homosexuals will not be allowed into heaven.

...except on the last saturday of each month. then it's all gay all day.

[BohsPartisan]

...except on the last saturday of each month. then it's all gay all day.

Cosmopolitans half price!

[jebus]

I'm really interested to hear what Christians think will happen to the likes of myself, BohsPartisan, all Islams, Jews, Mormons, Buddhists, Hindus when we die. We will be able to come into your heaven or do we have to go and smash rocks when we meet our maker Beelzebub? This isn't directed at you Adam but perhaps Jebus or Osarasun.

Well I don't believe in a Heaven or Hell, well not the ones as set put in the Bible anyway, so I think whatever you do with yourself in your life, good or bad, you won't get judged on it at the end. As I said, I'm more guven to believe in a life force running through everything, so when you die I think you go back into said life force.

As for an earlier point you made about me being muddled about my beliefs, I'm not at all, just have different ones to you, but I know what I believe and what I don't. And IO sthink dahamsta handled your point about not being able to pick and mix different religions well, so I'll just say that I agree with everything he said in that post

[Raheny Red]

What happens to Atheists when they die? What sort of 'ceremony' is there

[strangeirish]

What happens to Atheists when they die? What sort of 'ceremony' is there

Dunno. Wonder what they say when they have an orgasm?

[BohsPartisan]

What happens to Atheists when they die? What sort of 'ceremony' is there

Ceremonies

Dying as an Atheist in America

Dunno. Wonder what they say when they have an orgasm?

I usually say "You're Welcome!"

[jebus]

I usually say "You're Welcome!"

It beats "I owe you one" any day of the week

[Vitruvian Man]

Dunno. Wonder what they say when they have an orgasm?

They cry "I DON'T BELIEVE IT" in their best Victor Meldrew voice.

[Lionel Ritchie]

...I've just read a stat in Dawkins' God Delusion that somewhat disgusted me.

Seemingly 3% of people would not rescue a drowning child from a pond if they risked ruining their favourite trousers in the process.

If true that means there's about 180 million people out there who deserve to be pushed off a cliff.

[John83]

Don't believe everything you read.