Emelka Onwubiko

[NeilMcD]

I've been following Ireland all my life, always had an Irish passport, never had a British passport, and never considered myself British or English. But I've just been called up for the British pie-eating team in the forthcoming World Pie-eating qualifiers. I haven't got enough talent to make the Irish pie-eating team which has been my life-long ambition. But anyway, I'm thinking of saying 'f*ck my principles, I love eating pies (favourite is Steak & Kidney, but am partial to a decent Melton Mowbray). Someone tell me if that isn't as much a move for convenience or career purpose than some of the players that have represented Ireland?
The wackiest claim to an Irish granny I've heard was a Serbian I met in Belgrade before the 1998 game. He was training to be an Serbian Orthodox druid, yet claimed he had an Irish granny. Obviously never heard of Ne Temere. He didn't even know where she was from either.

Exactly lopez thats why I have the thing at the end about convenience and doing it for career purposes.

[Closed Account 2]

The wackiest claim to an Irish granny I've heard was a Serbian I met in Belgrade before the 1998 game. He was training to be an Serbian Orthodox druid, yet claimed he had an Irish granny. Obviously never heard of Ne Temere. He didn't even know where she was from either.

Could he do a job at the back instead of O'Shea ??

[Fergie's Son]

The problems with assertions of "racism" is that they can be used to stiffle debate and free speech. It's often just as dangerous to claim someone is a racist, in an effort to stiffle debate, as it is for an actual racist to spout their nonsense.

I have no problem with this young man declaring for Ireland. He is an Irish citizen and is thus entitle to make such a declaration. I do, however, have a problem with this being used as an example about how great immigration is or how we're all just one big multi-cultural family. Immigration is a series issue for Ireland with serious ramifications. There are limits on how many people any society can accept (witness America's willingness to shut out the Irish when it suited them) and Ireland is no different.

[youngirish]

Don't like players using the Ireland team because they are not good enough for England (Morrison, Nolan). No problem with the likes of Kilbane playing for us.

Why God? Why is JOS Irish? Does he have an English Granny? If so and he is a proud Irishman he should have declared for them instead and stop turning up for our games.

[geysir]

I do, however, have a problem with this being used as an example about how great immigration is or how we're all just one big multi-cultural family. Immigration is a series issue for Ireland with serious ramifications. There are limits on how many people any society can accept (witness America's willingness to shut out the Irish when it suited them) and Ireland is no different.

You have been itching for a debate on immigration. Move it to "current affairs" or to "off topic"

[as_i_say]

he'll probably turn out to be another Kwame Ampadu so whats the big deal?

[Fergie's Son]

You have been itching for a debate on immigration. Move it to "current affairs" or to "off topic"

Why? This debate has clearly gone in that direction so shouldn't the entire thread be moved?

[Fergie's Son]

he'll probably turn out to be another Kwame Ampadu so whats the big deal?

Or another Andy Turner etc.

[Paddy Garcia]

Or another Paul McGrath etc.

[Fergie's Son]

Or another Paul McGrath etc.

In fairness, McGrath was raised in Ireland by an Irish mother. It's a little different than the likes of Turner.

[geysir]

Why? This debate has clearly gone in that direction so shouldn't the entire thread be moved?

Not quite in that direction, mostly the messages before yours were related to football and the thread. Why not let it be and not go down that direction?

[zenokelly]

If he's good enough to play for us why not welcome him with open arms because it seems to me by the sounds of it he has the heart.

Once he's not another Morrison!!!

[Fergie's Son]

Not quite in that direction, mostly the messages before yours were related to football and the thread. Why not let it be and not go down that direction?

I'm easy but the thread just struck me as heading towards the immigration topic. Will stick to the footie.

[Torn-Ado]

He lived here, went to school here and played football here and now he wants to play for us. No problem there.

I'm more interested in whether he can play ball.

[Nailer77]

You sound like you weren't born in 94. Irish born Italians supporting their land of their parents not their birth, not evidence of how some people don't consider their birthplace as relevant to identity?

What's happened in the last 13 years is that there are more than two, three, possibly four large ethnic minority communities in Ireland. Whether these groups offspring feel Irish will have a lot to do on how the Irish treat them, rather than where their mother's waters broke. The fact that the door to citizenship has been redrawn doesn't exactly help. But hey, I'm sure birthplace will remain the key, not those insignificant things like family, culture, and ethnicity.

A good man Lopez, I see you're one of those selective copiers, why not paste the whole of my post??? Like I said some might consider themselves Irish some might not. Its certainly not the nailed on certainty you presume it to be, but then you'd have probably noticed that if you'd acknowledged the whole of the post.

And why the rolly eyes and the assumption that I'm a young lad (though what you're point is there is beyond me), does it make you feel a bit more intelligent?

[lopez]

A good man Lopez, I see you're one of those selective copiers, why not paste the whole of my post??? ?

Why would I post comments I don't have issue with. Do you think that by picking a bit of your post, I've misquoted you?

Like I said some might consider themselves Irish some might not. Its certainly not the nailed on certainty you presume it to be, but then you'd have probably noticed that if you'd acknowledged the whole of the post.

The problem I have is with you claiming that a submission of an article isn't 'evidence.' Whatever you think of the quality of journalism of British newspapers, this was a first hand report of Irish born Italians supporting Italy (land of ancestors) against Ireland (land of birth). True: Not every Irish Italian supported Italy (neither the report nor would I suggest such a thing) but then not every Irish Italian supported Ireland which seems to be a general consensus of a few on this thread that a. Irish born abraod - you support/play for Ireland for purely mercenary reasons. b. live in Ireland for a minimum of four years (no need to be even born here), you're as Irish as a whiskey guzzling leprechaun.

To recap, let's see what you said. For the benefit of your sensitivities, I've included all of it, but will highlight the bit I take issue with.

Which is why I said 'some might'. And regardless of a referendum I said people born and raised in this country will likely consider themselves Irish and rightly so and as such can represent our national side without feeling like a foreigner, they certainly have as much right to do so as someone who had a granny from Mayo.

So no its not evidence and its less valued when you consider its 13 years old and that since 94 the country has changed beyond belief.

The second bit (evidence), first: It's an example that the children of immigrants will not always support their (new) country of birth, so don't be so naive as to think they do. And, you're right. The country has changed since 1994. Being born here no longer guarantees you Irish citizenship.

As for the first bit - 'people born and raised in this country will likely consider themselves Irish and rightly so' - says who? Says you? Have you got anything to back it up with, like a straw poll. As someone owing an 'allegiance' to a country that isn't where I was born, I know that this sweeping, and let's face it rather patronising, statement is a bogus crock of sh*te.

And why the rolly eyes and the assumption that I'm a young lad (though what you're point is there is beyond me), does it make you feel a bit more intelligent?

I really have no answer to this, apart from your naivity over matters of identity amongst 2nd generation immigrants. Perhaps the fact you took a week to respond to my slight says it all for me.

[Billsthoughts]

why dont you just open your own "2G Immigrintz Forum"
whether its anything from a youth international to the tour de france its all you ever talk about.

[Nailer77]

Like I said some might consider themselves Irish some might not. Its certainly not the nailed on certainty you presume it to be,

I'm just going to have to post that again Lopez, its not a black and white issue despite what you think, in fact the subject of the post should tell you that. And a newspaper article thats 13 years old is not irrefutable evidence, especially not in a country thats undergone the ethnic changes that this one has. Do all those kids born in the USA, Australia, the UK etc consider themselves Irish do you think? Or is it possible that some do and some don't? In fact I know its not so clear cut from meeting these people, but I was never of the opinion that these kids would ALWYS choose to be Irish over their cultural background or vice versa. I probably shouldn't have used the 'will likely' and instead should have used 'could possibly', you can have that one. But if someone born and raised here would like to consider themselves Irish then they will, despite the results of a referendum because we definetly won't be deporting these people born on this soil of foreign parents in 20 years time. And I'd imagine if they want to play football for us and they're pretty handy we'll be finding away around it too.

I'm very sorry I didn't realise there was a clock ticking on replies, I'll have to be more careful won't I! You do like a smiley don't you fella.

[lopez]

Like I said some might consider themselves Irish some might not. Its certainly not the nailed on certainty you presume it to be, [/I]


I'm just going to have to post that again Lopez, its not a black and white issue despite what you think, in fact the subject of the post should tell you that. And a newspaper article thats 13 years old is not irrefutable evidence, especially not in a country thats undergone the ethnic changes that this one has. Do all those kids born in the USA, Australia, the UK etc consider themselves Irish do you think? Or is it possible that some do and some don't? In fact I know its not so clear cut from meeting these people, but I was never of the opinion that these kids would ALWYS choose to be Irish over their cultural background or vice versa...

I know you don't like any of your post to be left out so I've wasted more space on this thread to please you. However, I'd like to know where did I say (presumably) ALWAYS, to all people of foreign parents ALWAYS choosing their parents country over that of their birth? I thought I used the word 'may' in response to the some generalisation that everyone with an Irish accent is Irish.

...I probably shouldn't have used the 'will likely' and instead should have used 'could possibly', you can have that one...

Yes you shouldn't.

...But if someone born and raised here would like to consider themselves Irish then they will, despite the results of a referendum because we definetly won't be deporting these people born on this soil of foreign parents in 20 years time. And I'd imagine if they want to play football for us and they're pretty handy we'll be finding away around it too...

I hope you're right, but I could imagine the same optimism one hundred years ago in Germany over the future of Jews there. Anyway, enough of the pessimism.

...I'm very sorry I didn't realise there was a clock ticking on replies, I'll have to be more careful won't I! You do like a smiley don't you fella.

You do that. And yes I do like a smiley. . I'd like a few more included, especially one that appears to be shaking some coffee.

why dont you just open your own "2G Immigrintz Forum"
whether its anything from a youth international to the tour de france its all you ever talk about.

Got something you'd like to get off your chest Bill?

[Billsthoughts]

yeah...try talking about football on a football forum....