Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread

**Macy** · 01/02/2007, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Just one other small point, if the supporters raised 10k and tried to buy ollie out, they would still be taking on 10mil euro debts, which they would have to prove they could pay for, along with the differnce the sale of the grounds.

The club would still have the ground, which would cover the debts, and it's not beyond Dublin City Council doing similar to what South Dublin did for Rovers. If they said they'd never rezone it for property developers without Shels being looked after then there is no benefit to the property sharks of forcing shels out of business.

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

have associated shels as being a club moving forward, doing things and going places, they haven't read or heard much about ollie byrne

Only if they never watched or listened to a sports report, probably sneering, that contained Shels threatening legal action, more often than that accompanied with Ollie spouting rubbish. If they hadn't associated the two, at the very least they would've had an opinion on the league formed out of this nonsense, saying that "sure the leagues a joke decided in the court rooms". I can't see how they'd be anyone living in this country that follows football that wouldn't have heard Ollie on the radio.

**Schumi** · 01/02/2007, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

But if thats the case than we may as well jack in the LoI altogether. By that token we will never get the kind of fans we need to support a full time Irish football league that can push on in Europe. All we will get is more Shelbourne style disasters at other clubs who chase glory

That wasn't my point. People who don't support EL clubs thinking that Shels are great is much less important than clubs running themselves properly to avoid such collapses in the future. Shels' current problems aren't what's wrong, it's their previous way of doing business.

**paul_oshea** · 01/02/2007, 1:47 PM

The club would still have the ground, which would cover the debts

Are you sure thats the case for say that amount of money? If the ground is worth 16m isnt that a shortfall of 4million euro which they would have to pay for to the current club owner(s)

you would be surprised, i just asked 3 lads on msn, who play football every week and support arsenal and liverpool respectfully, they both follow cross-channel football fairly intensely. I asked the question: have you heard of ollie byrne, one goes ah ya the footballer ( this lad is from blanchardstown ), the others didnt know.

**Macy** · 01/02/2007, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

If the ground is worth 16m isnt that a shortfall of 4million euro which they would have to pay for to the current club owner(s)

Shels without the fans is dead. If Ollie loves shels so much he's have no problem with such an arrangement, particularly as �3million of the draw down appears to have been effectively taken from the club to allow him to build his own share level.

**Jerry The Saint** · 01/02/2007, 2:05 PM

Originally Posted by londonred

The bit in bold in very interesting , it seems that Pats are getting invited because Setanta don't want their cameras to cross the shannon and fat Pat prefers the chippers around richmond park.

and because the regulations above do not take into account a club declining to take their place;
and you shouldn't expect that placing 5th in a competition would entitle you to enter a 4-team invitational tournament;
and Pats were the actual runners-up in the Cup instead of just a Dublin team picked at random;
and, yes, the fact that viewing figures show that games involving Pats consistently draw larger television audiences also helped the commercial television company to decide who should get in under these exceptional circumstances.

**hoops1** · 01/02/2007, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Shels without the fans is dead. If Ollie loves shels so much he's have no problem with such an arrangement, particularly as �3million of the draw down appears to have been effectively taken from the club to allow him to build his own share level.

Thats a very interesting point.

**DvB** · 01/02/2007, 3:15 PM

IfShels cease to exist i'd imagine a short term deal could be agreed between SRFC & DCC, we need a ground to use for a season, DCC have one lying around not being used, hey presto, we look after the day to day running of the place, cover insurance etc, we're happy, DCC are happy, bobs your uncles friends girlfriend!

Shels will be the ex bird, crying into her pillow with My chemical romance cd's blaring 24-7!!

Gear!

**bigmac** · 01/02/2007, 3:18 PM

Two points.

Firstly, there's no point arguing about the rules and regulations because nobody has yet pointed out any particular passage where it says - "In the event of a team declining the invitation to compete....".
This means that the situation as it exists is not covered by the rules, and hence can be interpreted in whatever manner the organisers decide.

Secondly, my opinion in this case is that the spirit of the law has been upheld, if not the letter (which clearly is ambiguous - see above). The European situation, if it arises, will result in the same decision as the Setanta Cup, and I doubt that there will be the same argument on this messageboard.

Hoever, having said all that, the rules are open to interpretation and people are free to interpret them as they so wish.

**BohsFans** · 01/02/2007, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by dublin15bohs

Id welcome them back to Dalymount and im sure the board would too

lol

**wws** · 01/02/2007, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by bigmac

Two points.

This means that the situation as it exists is not covered by the rules, and hence can be interpreted in whatever manner the organisers decide.

well done
penny drops
its a non issue to be honest

the SSC is a media driven event by a niche commercial station - its only footballing status is that it has the joint blessing of the IFA and FAI its not the league or the cup of a national association under UEFA

**Cluba06** · 01/02/2007, 4:26 PM

If shels fold could there be the opportunity that Dundalk will get to fill their place in the premeir league next season? Or if shels are expelled from the league down to the first division will we get promoted?

**pete** · 01/02/2007, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cluba06

If shels fold could there be the opportunity that Dundalk will get to fill their place in the premeir league next season? Or if shels are expelled from the league down to the first division will we get promoted?

Were not Waterford next on the IAG list?

**DmanDmythDledge** · 01/02/2007, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Were not Waterford next on the IAG list?

Yeah.

**Mental Man** · 01/02/2007, 6:45 PM

Yes it was on local radio here today that if shels fold the next team in line with the rankings in Waterford United ,and as they finished 13th then the yare automatically promoted.
Just heard also and it was posted up on BTiD that Paul Lennon of The Star newspaper will be on our favourite footie show here on WLR on saturday morning ,its called Terrace talk, brill programme, seemingly there is BIG NEWS gonna break on the programme and Paul is gonna announce it !
I have a feeling its PAYBACK TIME (i hope)

**BohsPartisan** · 01/02/2007, 6:54 PM

Big news will be that The Star will be giving out free copies of the paper at the first Waterford home game!

**Poor Student** · 01/02/2007, 7:15 PM

Originally Posted by Mental Man

Yes it was on local radio here today that if shels fold the next team in line with the rankings in Waterford United ,and as they finished 13th then the yare automatically promoted.
Just heard also and it was posted up on BTiD that Paul Lennon of The Star newspaper will be on our favourite footie show here on WLR on saturday morning ,its called Terrace talk, brill programme, seemingly there is BIG NEWS gonna break on the programme and Paul is gonna announce it !
I have a feeling its PAYBACK TIME (i hope)

I just don't get the attitude in Waterford. You last season was diabolical on the pitch. Had you managed to somehow been given that deus ex machina clemency by the IAG then you should have considered yourselves extremely fortunate, yet for some bizarre reason you seem to feel hard done by and let down. You now consider this possible lucky shot at getting a Premier Division place your devine right. Yes I know you were getting things in order off the pitch etc. etc. but you know that had that saved your hides that was just mere fortune. You're owed nothing and deserve nothing.

**Gareth** · 01/02/2007, 7:17 PM

DCFCSteve, I guess I'll reply to your post as it suggested a way of overthrowing an owner of a football club. My first question is Have you ever met Ollie Byrne and do you really think fans attempting to bully him into selling up the club would actually impact at all? I would say it would only serve to do the opposite. I think the first and only question I want answered is, knowing Ollie, does anyone think he would sell 99% of his stake in Shels, if fans asked him to or even boycotted games? Our attendances were low enough some of you would say that you may not notice a boycott!!!

Even in the toughest times for Shelbourne FC, Ollie remained at the helm, so do you really believe a bunch of fans could have successfully made him give up the club after Deportivo, or our 4th league win in a few years etc.

Lets say Shels fans attempted to do what Rovers fans did. There is a HUGE difference, in that there is a potential asset of 20million ish. Debts in common alright, but that asset is something that would make a deal with fans even more difficult to broker, especially when times were prospering on the field. But all this is beside the point, cos people will argue fans didn't try, and Shels fans will argue it would have been pointless, or they didnt know, and you will allsay But we told you etc etc.

The reality in my humble opinion is no man woman or demigod coul dhave shifted ollie from that club without some form of AMAZING deal on the table, and fans would never be in the position to do that!!!

**Mental Man** · 01/02/2007, 7:34 PM

Oh you dont have to remind me or any other blues fans as to how bad we were, Kerley F**ked us up big time by trying his own hand at negotiating wages with our best players and the result is that we had nobody, granted since Gareth Cronin came there has been a big difference, our gripe was these stupid bloody playoffs at the end of the season which made no difference to us or Dundalk afterwards except unnecessary expense for both clubs
The criteria that the IAG laid out to us was adhered to properly by the club, but when you see whats happening at the moment up in Tolka, then you have to ask yourself serious questions as to how in sweet jesus was shels given a licence, i hope this will all be revealed in the so-called FAI investigation, actually either us or Dundalk should go up, if you ask me the whole thing was a farce and will be a farce if nothing is done to shels.

**pineapple stu** · 01/02/2007, 8:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mental Man

The criteria that the IAG laid out to us was adhered to properly by the club

You didn't finish that far ahead of Shels in the off-field stuff, so I'd wonder to what extent Waterford actually did sort their affairs out last year.

Can't argue with the rest of your post, except to note that nothing proper will come of the investigation.

**DannyInvincible** · 01/02/2007, 8:32 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Shels qualified through winning the league. Since they withdrew their league winnning place is then given to Derry. Derry would then basically be league champions and FAI cup champions and under Setanta cup rules the cup runners up would then get the place.

If the case is that Derry are taking Shelbourne's place as champions, shouldn't Derry be moved to Shelbourne's group, and St. Pat's take the spot in the group left by Derry?