Munster Senior Cup 2006/07

**magpies** · 03/01/2007, 10:03 PM

I think the Munster Senior Cup should be taken more seriously by Junior Clubs who have won their local leagues. Junior clubs should have nothing to fear, and going into games as underdogs can often help

Newcastle West from the Desmond League beat Youghal Utd 4-1 away in the first round and lost on Pens to Passage Utd after a 2-2 draw. Kilarney Celtic have now reached the quater final of the competition beating some of the best from the Munster Senior League and now play Passage. I also fancy them to beat Passage and reach the semi final.

Any thaughts Lads

**hooperlooper** · 04/01/2007, 5:36 AM

with all due respect to newcastle and killarney,passage are just after moving to the msl in cork from the aul premier,a division in which they had spent the last 3 or 4 seasons just avoiding relegation by the odd win,youghal for all there efforts havent been able to reach the higher divisions for a while now and dont look like they ever will,there good junior clubs in a competion thats a joke,cork city,waterford,limerick{rip} and ramblers,its just a pre season game to them,rockmount get a good run in it and it helps them kick on for the msl season finale,but other than that what purpose those it serve.cork city have won it 7 or 8 times in the last 10 years,it was only kept on to keep the msl senior sides happy seeing as they are the only senior league in munster and the entire senior league gets to play in it,yet only the winners of all the other junior leagues get an invite,no doubt that some one from tipp,lim or waterford will say that they dont do well in it that much either but there to busy winning the mjc with there own junior teams each yer to try to have a senior league ,they think its safer to play under the cloak of junior rather than mix it with the big senior teams,,,,,,,,,,,i feel better now for lettin all that out ,good question though magpie

**C.T.F.C** · 04/01/2007, 12:06 PM

So all the better junior sides across Munster should exit their respective leagues thereby diminishing the standards of those leagues

OR the other sides in these leagues could attempt to match and surpass the top sides within their leagues

Just a thought.

**hooperlooper** · 09/01/2007, 8:49 AM

no,not at all,i understand that by asking teams to make the step ut to senior may look like its daunting and not a good prospect for the future of those leagues, but by the same token by leaving those teams that are deciding to remain junior are only keeping down the poorer teams in those leagues,clonmel for instance could easily play senior level,as would peakvilla,st michaels or a host of other so call junior clubs but they choose not to because there is much more chance of success when you are a big fish in a small barrell so to speak,by having a senior league it helps clubs that have an existing set up to try a little harder to try to reach the senior standard,junior football is the backbone of grassrooots football but if competion is not fair across the board at junior level it is the senior and league of ireland who suffer because weaker teams at a junior level are being beaten yeat in year out by teams who themselves sould be competing at a higher standard and therefore the players who should come through thr junior ranks are being put off because there either playin with succesful junior sides and they like bein in the comfort zone or they are playin with poor sides and have no confidence in themselves,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the senior munster cup should be made open to any side who feel that they can compete at a senior level,while knowing that at the same time it is a competion for only the best sides in munster,how dose that sound

**wilhelm2** · 09/01/2007, 12:04 PM

the problem that the msl is not an "msl" but a cork senior league
if the senior league is serious about its name then more representation from the rest of the province is necessary.

there are clubs in waterford , sth tipp and limerick who have the facillaties and the infrastructure to step up to the higher level
clonmel , michaels , fairview, carrick and waterford crystalto name a few

but the right incentive for these clubs to go intermediate must be fortcoming

clonmel town and michaels in sth tipp are in a celtic/rangers spl type scenario
each of them know at the beginning of the season that to win the league all the have to do is finish above the other,

the league knows this also ,that is why they dont get them to play until the end of the season.

thus allowing them a clear run at the bigger competitions thus bringing accolades to the league

the fai and mjc become the holy grail for the likes of these clubs.

so one cant blame them for staying where they are??

the allowing of junior clubs in to the msc is a farce
get this scenario
an msl team draws a junior team in the senior cup

all the junior players are free to also play in the junior cups
while if a second team msl player who would usually play with the juniors
plays then he cant play junior football for the season.

i suggest that all the winners of each junior league get promoted to league
making it a sort of "champions league if you like"

that wouild be a real munster league , whether there status would remain junior or intermediate would be open to debate

any comments?????????????

**hooperlooper** · 09/01/2007, 12:31 PM

a few years back the msl had limericks reserve side and a team from kerry playing,they droped out cause of the travelling and the fact that each week theyt were playing a team of equal or better standard,any one can apply in this day and age,there no reason for anyone to complain,cork and kerry teams playin the wcb league,the red house league,the desmond league,ect ect all have teams playing that are from different counties within the same league,the mjc should be for clubs of a junior standard,the senior cup should be for teams that are either senior or that fulfill the senior cup critera but are classed as junior,you might not have to go senior but you should at least if you feel you can be given the chance to compete ,regarding the qualification of players a or b,at the start of a season at the moment you must apply for the mjc or msc depending on how you are classified,your first side for the senior cup or your first team for the mjc simple as that,the msc and mjc are club competions not team competions ,for example,if rockmount put only a team in for the msc and none for the mjc then every player registered for rockmount can play in the msc,if they only put in a mjc team then it is only the players registered under junior and minor can be used,the winners of the respective junior ;leagues should be allowed entry to the msc as part of the agreement to keep playing the competion,otherwise they might as well call it the cork senior cup

**Hoops 1967** · 09/01/2007, 2:36 PM

Excuse my ignorance here but.....
So if you play in the munster senior league you can't play in the junior fai and mjc?
Does that mean that when fairview won all those fai's that probably teams in the msl were better than them?
How come the msl have a team in the oscor traynor cup?

**hooperlooper** · 09/01/2007, 4:36 PM

no.1.......the msl has 3 senior divisions and 3 junior divisions,the senior classed divisions compete in the msc and the fai intermediate cup,those players who compete in those cups are not able to play in the mjc or the fai junior cup ,the junior divisions compete in the mjc and the fai junior,different competitions for different grades

no.2...........fairview won those fai juniors cause everybody knows that they were an excellent junior club who should have been playing at senior level but because there league did not want to lose its junior status played in the junior rather than the senior fai,through no fault of there own ,they just yook advantage of the fact there league had,nt a senior league,

no.3.........fairview play in a junior league to there own detrament,senior league dose not mean that senior teams are better,it means that they require certain standards to enter the league,standards that junior teams might no be able to achive for some reason,be it money,facilities ect i have no doubt that there are many junior sides in munster that are better than msl sides but the junior tag brings with it a mind set of boggy pitchs and teams with matching jerserys and different coloured shorts and socks,even though you know thats not true,when you hear senior you expect the best,even if there not,football wise,players like to play with teams that have senior name tags,they look down on junior players,me i personally think senior is just a load of stuck up teams who dont want to mix it with ordinary junior clubs,thats just my opinion,but they have all the money and they get all the publicity,you have to admit that

**hooperlooper** · 09/01/2007, 4:43 PM

no.4.......sorry i nearly 4got,the msl cannot use there senior players in the oscar traynor beause its a junior competion for junior players,the msl has 3 junior divisions so it is the junior teams from the msl that take part,,,,,,,,the msl or munster senior league when it started had teams from all over munster in it with some reserve teams from the munster league of ireland teams,but gradually because of the cost of travelling it compressed into what it is today,basically all cork sides

**duffbeer** · 09/01/2007, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by hooperlooper

me i personally think senior is just a load of stuck up teams who dont want to mix it with ordinary junior clubs,thats just my opinion,but they have all the money and they get all the publicity,you have to admit that

In dublin the same football snobbery exists, however on the other hand it's the junior game that gets all the publicity, perhaps due to the sheer numbers who play the grade.

I think Clonmel Town will win the FAI this season with Killester also in there, but reckon Waterford crystal, pike, peake etc are sides that could actually eclipse the seasoned campaigners in MSL.

scrap the grades, your either pro or amateur in reality. your club might be on a different level with facilities, but the players are generally not really good enough for irish pro, which makes them amateur. thats the way the rest of europe works.

**hooperlooper** · 09/01/2007, 5:31 PM

im envolved with an aul team in cork,a big club but we have no desire to enter the ranks of the senior league,basically because if we did go senior we wouldnt be able to play in the AOH,which is the holy grail of football in cork,the fai and mjc are not very realistic targets for cork junior teams because of the amount of extra rounds we have to play,3 prelim b4 we even get to the first round,plus theres over 240 sides from the aul,msl,shipping league and the west cork league enter,for only 4 to go into the open round draw,go figure,...........how many entered in lim or watrfd, or the tsdl and yet they have the same or more in the open round,i,m not cribn thems just the facts

**callyno3** · 14/01/2007, 4:01 PM

[QUOTE=fai and mjc are not very realistic targets for cork junior teams because of the amount of extra rounds we have to play,3 prelim b4 we even get to the first round,plus theres over 240 sides from the aul,msl,shipping league and the west cork league enter,for only 4 to go into the open round draw,go figure,...........how many entered in lim or watrfd, or the tsdl and yet they have the same or more in the open round,i,m not cribn thems just the facts

[/QUOTE]

7 cork teams qualify for open draw of FAI
The reason that Limerick/Tipp/Waterford fare better than Cork teams is becase the best teams in those counties play junior and the best teams in Cork play senior. IMO

**hooperlooper** · 18/01/2007, 9:56 AM

the best teams ar'nt all in senior ,they just have the best facilities,thats why its called the senior league,because you have to meet the critera for senior league ststus to gain entry,not necesserely have a good side,there plenty of ****e teams in the msl,prem and junior and the nrest of munster play junior as i have already ststed is because they have more chance of winning the junior comps rather than the senior,lack of bottle,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,

**callyno3** · 22/01/2007, 1:23 PM

I'm not saying all the teams in the senior are the best teams. But the top senior teams like avondale and rockmount and possibly mayfield castleview who realistically are the next best teams in the county of cork to cork city/ cobh ramblers. where as in limerick the top teams below limerick city pike, fairview, ballanty etc all play junior waterford the same and in alot of counties the best team plays junior

**The Gaffer** · 22/01/2007, 1:35 PM

Would I be correct in saying, that to date, Waterford Crystal are the only Junior Club to win the Muster Senior Cup by beating Cork City 1 nil in the Final?