Supporting British teams

[pineapple stu]

I think his point is that Irish people spend a couple of hundred going to England because they think it's the best league in the world when, for less money, they could actually watch a game in the best leagues in the world. It shows up the ignorance of a large proportion of Irish-based EPL fans.

[BohsPartisan]

I think his point is that Irish people spend a couple of hundred going to England because they think it's the best league in the world when, for less money, they could actually watch a game in the best leagues in the world. It shows up the ignorance of a large proportion of Irish-based EPL fans.

That applies for Chelsea. L'pool, manu but I can do a trip to Goodison for about 100 quid if I get the flights at the right price. Maybe a little more when spending money is taken into consideration. Tbh I'd go to a football match wherever I was. If I'm going abroad I always check to see will there be any footie matches on in the vacinity when I'm there.

[Peadar]

Tbh I'd go to a football match wherever I was. If I'm going abroad I always check to see will there be any footie matches on in the vacinity when I'm there.

Which links back to the point which I was making about people being fans of football and wanting to see it wherever they can.

[Poor Student]

I know people are frustrated at the EPL absorbing most of the eL's potential fanbase but I find a lot of these comments annoying. Serie A, EPL and La Liga are the three best leagues in the world by some distance. A lot of posters tend to smugly say "Pfft, La Liga and Serie A are better anyway" as if it's carved in stone fact. Before someone suggests the co-efficients make it fact, the difference between the leagues is marginal and does not compare the strength of the rest of the leagues which didn't qualify for Europe. Serie A has been ridden with corruption (which detracts from it as an entertaining spectacle if you ask me) and has a style of play which a lot of people find unappealing. The attitude that "ignoring the eL for foreign football is bad, but La Liga and Serie A are better anyway" seems like a bitter cheapshot and somewhat anti-English.

[Bomb Landsdowne]

DCFC Steve. I have a video clip of that very incident(recorded at 5am) Im the lad who slept on your shelf in Stuttgart. Will post it up when i get back to Ireland. In Poland at the moment, on the lock as usual. See you lads in Cyprus and good luck against PSG. Thanks for letting me sleep on the shelf.

Brian.

[BohsPartisan]

a few points id like to make without taking points out of other posts.

3.above mate wont come to united park because he went to school in drogheda and cant stand the accent.we only live 5 miles from drogheda

Can't blame him for that. Now go eat your "maaas Baaa"

[bigmac]

Tbh I'd go to a football match wherever I was. If I'm going abroad I always check to see will there be any footie matches on in the vacinity when I'm there.

I'm in the same boat as you, seen plenty of teams play in the UK and anytime i'm in London on business or to meet friends, I always try to take in a game (I've a soft spot for Arsenal myself). To me, it's a real treat to see some of the world class players in action - even from a young age, seeing Paul McGrath play in the flesh, Dennis Bergkamp, Alan Shearer - I don't subscribe to the theory that the EPL is the best league in the world but as a football fan I love watching real quality players. In saying that, I'd rather Waterford overhauled Bray than Arsenal win every trophy available.

On a separate point, what do people here think about the Italians who come over to support Cork? Why are they not classed in the same vein as barstoolers?

[Plastic Paddy]

Kevin Kilbane's local team is, I believe, Preston. Not sure why you needed to ask . The fact that he's 2nd or 3rd generation Irish doesnt stop that. Due to his Irish background, it wouldbe perfectly understandable if he had a strong preference for an Irish team. Though as most Irsh people don't even have that, I'd be bloody shocked if a Preston-born 2G did.

Thanks for spelling it out. I was making the point as a rejoinder to those posters who "aren't British therefore don't support a British team". You obviously can be Irish and support your local team even though that team is British.

The situation is very clear PP. To support a team like Celtic because of their Irish heritage, whilst at the same time turning your back on the numerous teams who actually are Irish is nothing short of absurd ! It really is. If you want to support a team with an Irish connection, why the feck not support one in Ireland ?!?

Quite simply because of the "special case" you referred to earlier. Celtic is a club of the Irish diaspora. That's the difference. As a 2G, I'm not "proper" Irish nor am I "proper" British (I have lost count of the number of times snide comments have been levelled at me by "real" Irish due to my accent - and this whilst watching Ireland ffs!) I am however, a full-blown real-deal member of the Irish diaspora and find concert with this expression when watching Celtic.

In any case, I've been to the Showgrounds, to Terryland Park and to St Mel's Park enough times over the years to try and feel something for one of the sides "local" to where my parents hail from. Failed on every occasion. And not just because of the poor quality of the football on show either; the overall experience in each case just didn't do it for me. In contrast, going to Celtic Park those first few times just blew me away; from standing in the Jungle as a teenager to watching the closing twists of stopping Rangers' bid for ten-in-a-row. Even now I still get excited when the trip north is to watch Kilmarnock or Falkirk on a wet January afternoon.

If you picked those teams to suggest what should a nationalist do if their local side has a perceived unionist/British ethose, then the answer surely isn't to pick a British team to support is it ?

I did and, despite your assertions, to many people the answer runs contrary to your view. One of my close friends is a nationalist and a football fan from Ballycastle - he has Ballymena, Coleraine and Larne as the nearest IL sides to choose from, none of which appeal for the reasons you state. He feels no connection with any other Irish club - Shelbourne may as well be Sheffield Wednesday to him. So, given the strong tradition of Celtic support locally and the means to travel regularly to CP, Celtic is his club.

Anyway, in all of this I think people are missing a crucial point about the nature of football support. It's fairly obvious what the drivers are that underpin many of the people posting here - a connection with their local area, an expression of support for Irish football, knowing everyone inside the ground, whatever. All very noble but you all overlook the point that in an increasingly time-poor society, watching football to many people, especially when Sky makes it so accessible, is just another form of entertainment. That puts it in competition with going to the cinema, playing the PS2/DSD (or whatever) and even going shopping (dammit!)

With this in mind, those who criticise barstoolers are failing to understand the essence of the football-watching experience for them. I'm not defending them (because I also think your average barstooler just doesn't get what it means to truly follow football) but I am saying that, unlike the majority of posters here, I think their reasons for watching football are perfectly valid even if it means their allegiances are somewhat harder for your die-hard "fan" to understand.

PP

[hoops1]

PP what attracts you to the Irish team? Would you not class yourself as
English with Irish parents and not Irish. I would be very interested to hear your views on this. I ASK THIS QUESTION IN GOOD FAITH NOT TO WIND YOU UP!

[Peadar]

Would you not class yourself as
English with Irish parents and not Irish.

Oh dear!
I can see right inside Pandora's Box and it aint a pretty sight!

[Plastic Paddy]

PP what attracts you to the Irish team? Would you not class yourself as English with Irish parents and not Irish. I would be very interested to hear your views on this.

Don't worry hoops1 - it's a perfectly acceptable question and I'm happy to answer in the same spirit. I regard myself as Irish. I hold only an Irish passport. I think of myself as an Irish child born and raised in England. Think of Kevin Kilbane's connection with Ireland and you have a parallel. So it's completely logical for me to support Ireland. Ironically it's only ever other Irish who seem to have a problem with my definition of myself as Irish, but there you go.

Oh dear!
I can see right inside Pandora's Box and it aint a pretty sight!

I'm mellowing out in my old age Peadar...

PP

[dcfcsteve]

Quite simply because of the "special case" you referred to earlier. Celtic is a club of the Irish diaspora. That's the difference. As a 2G, I'm not "proper" Irish nor am I "proper" British (I have lost count of the number of times snide comments have been levelled at me by "real" Irish due to my accent - and this whilst watching Ireland ffs!) I am however, a full-blown real-deal member of the Irish diaspora and find concert with this expression when watching Celtic.

In any case, I've been to the Showgrounds, to Terryland Park and to St Mel's Park enough times over the years to try and feel something for one of the sides "local" to where my parents hail from. Failed on every occasion. And not just because of the poor quality of the football on show either; the overall experience in each case just didn't do it for me. In contrast, going to Celtic Park those first few times just blew me away; from standing in the Jungle as a teenager to watching the closing twists of stopping Rangers' bid for ten-in-a-row. Even now I still get excited when the trip north is to watch Kilmarnock or Falkirk on a wet January afternoon.

PP - This thread isn't about 2G's - its about Irish people, born and bred in Ireland, who loyally follow everything local and Irish in every sport bar football, but yet turn their backs on local, Irish soccer teams in favour of adopting foreign clubs as if they were as local to them as their parish GAA side. 2G's are clearly a special case, and that isn't meant in any prejorative sense. Celtic would appear to fulfill a similar role to the Irish national team for you, as you have no direct first-hand link to any specific Irish area/club (because you wreen't born in Ireland. Again - not a pejorative statement in any way).

Leaving the diaspora experience aside, can you not see the absurdity of Irish people loyally supporting local and Irish teams in everything from rugby to tiddlywinks, but then supporting foreign clubs in soccer only as if they were a local side to them ?

I did and, despite your assertions, to many people the answer runs contrary to your view. One of my close friends is a nationalist and a football fan from Ballycastle - he has Ballymena, Coleraine and Larne as the nearest IL sides to choose from, none of which appeal for the reasons you state. He feels no connection with any other Irish club - Shelbourne may as well be Sheffield Wednesday to him. So, given the strong tradition of Celtic support locally and the means to travel regularly to CP, Celtic is his club.

Shelbourne may as well be Sheffield Wednesday to your friend, but there are other much more local Irish sides that would reflect the nationalist persuasion of a Northern Irish football supporter - if that was what was important to them in choosing a football team. Cliftonville would be an obvious example - and North Belfast is not all that far away from Ballycastle. Dare I say it, some would probably view Derry City or even Shamrock Rovers as fiulfilling such a role for them as well. If Irish heritage/connection was a key motivator to your friend in choosing a football, surely you must realise that it was strange of him to overlook the teams within Ireland who are Irish in favour of one outside of Ireland with an Irish connection. Understandable yes - given that that is what most Irish people do. But strange nonetheless when viewed objectively. It would be like a Dubliner going to Birmingham regularly to sit in an O'Neills pub, because he loved the whole Irish pub experience.......

Anyway, in all of this I think people are missing a crucial point about the nature of football support. It's fairly obvious what the drivers are that underpin many of the people posting here - a connection with their local area, an expression of support for Irish football, knowing everyone inside the ground, whatever. All very noble but you all overlook the point that in an increasingly time-poor society, watching football to many people, especially when Sky makes it so accessible, is just another form of entertainment. That puts it in competition with going to the cinema, playing the PS2/DSD (or whatever) and even going shopping (dammit!)

There are 2 different types of Irish people who follow foreign football whilst ignoring the local variety. Barstoolers are indeed in the category you describe above - people just looking for something entertaining to fill 2 hours of their life. They rarely go to live football anywhere, so whilst we can all snear at them they are not in my mind the arch-villians of the piece here. The other type are the tens of thousands who actively support foreign football whilst refusing to do so for the home-grown variety. Those who pour onto boats and planes every weekend to watch "their" team in grim English, Scottish or Welsh towns and cities, or locations even further afield. Those who spend hundreds if not thousands of Euro/pounds each year following a team they selected for most likely spurious reasons in the first place, but who they now treat as if they were as local to them as their nearest pub and the school their kids go to. Society is indeed increasingly time-poor - which makes the decision to spend days travelling overseas to watch 90mins of club football even more absurd from a time point of view, when you have a local brand of the product available right on your doorstep. If people really are that time poor, then why are they ignoring local avaialbility and instead spending so much time travelling overseas to do what they would never do in any other sport or walk of life - i.e. supporting foreign over Irish.

Irish people's support of everything local and Irish in every walk of life bar football is quite simply psychologically indefensible when viewed objectively. The nation should be perched on a psychiatrist's couch to work out how the hell this happened, and what 'therapy' is required to reverse such a societal anomally/blindness.

[Vitruvian Man]

There are 2 different types of Irish people who follow foreign football whilst ignoring the local variety. Barstoolers are indeed in the category you describe above ... The other type are the tens of thousands who actively support foreign football whilst refusing to do so for the home-grown variety. Those who pour onto boats and planes every weekend to watch "their" team in grim English, Scottish or Welsh towns and cities, or locations even further afield.

We need a lable to descibe this second type of "fan". How about...


Gloryholer


I think that covers both the letter and the spirit of what they are doing.

[BohsPartisan]

Its not just in Ireland though, there are French bar-stoolers who only watch Serie A.
As I've said before Bohs come first but I love my trips to Goodison. Its not just going for "90 minutes of football" but its a social thing. I go over with some other lads (the friend who I most often go with is a GUFC fan.) and its just a great buzz.

[Peadar]

As I've said before Bohs come first but I love my trips to Goodison. Its not just going for "90 minutes of football" but its a social thing.

Like I've said before, in my opinion, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone on this forum. I would argue that by going to other games makes you a better Bohs fan by giving you a greater appreciation of the game.

[BohsPartisan]

Crown exchequer benefactors?

I presume you buy only Irish products then when you do your shopping?

[hoops1]

I think to people on this site football is more important than
what shampoo you use.

[BohsPartisan]

No. but I do buy Irish sometimes.

So you buy Brittish as well? For shame.

I think to people on this site football is more important than
what shampoo you use.

Yeah but I was remarking upon his "Crown exchequer benefactors" remark.

[endabob1]

but thats not true, if you look at the attendances of championship and league games, a lot of them are over 10,000, in the lower leagues some teams get well over 5000..................any eircom team would love to get these kind of attendances

There are 50 million people in England and 4m in Ireland.
There are 92 League clubs in England and 21 in Ireland
The bare facts suggest there are too many clubs in Ireland to be even contemplating the type of support you get at English Grounds.
As far as competition from other sports go you have the GAA (where the Championship now competes dircetly through the summer months for support)and the increasing popularity of Rugby, both international and provincial.
In England there is a 12 team premiership in Rugby, most of whom groundshare with (rent from, therefore provide revenue to) fooball clubs, that is the sole competition for supporters and Rugby here still attracts its core suport from the "old school tie" supporters.
You're not comparing like with like there fella.

I actually agree that you should support your local team but I'm not going to demonise anyone for supporting a team from anywhere else for whatever reasons they see fit.
It's up to the Eircom Leage and the FAI to make the league more attractive, they need to invest in the facilities so when Derry draw PSG they can accomodae more than 3,000 people ditto for Cork/Shels etc...
Acadameys need to be set up NOW to stop young players going to England and getting lost in the system, keep them in Ireland, employ top coaches and raise the standard in the league.
Both these things require money but it will pay long term dividends.
Maybe Bohs influx of cash will see them lead the way in investment in a youth acadamey to add to their swanky new stadium.

[BohsPartisan]

No. No shame in being an Irish and British football fan. Once you're a fan of an Irish club.

Well then we're on the same page.