Current feelings about the team

**elroy** · 06/09/2006, 9:09 AM

We all know the big game for now is the Czechs at home, no messing we need a win!! You have to win your games at home, simple as that!
We need a good win and performance in Cyprus to raise the spirits and confidence going into the Czech game.
I feel with a little bit of tinkering, particularly in midfield that this team can go places. Everytime JOS gets the ball he wants to get rid straight away, not the attributes of a good CM, therefore we need someone to come in there, who is more composed and confident on the ball.
Finnan should be on the right, otherwise when hes on the left everytime he goes forward the chances are wasted as he has to turn back on his right to cross.

The other thing is the age of this team, given,carr and kilbane to the best of my knowledge were the only guys on sat over 30, we have a very young team! Good chance they'll come good yet

**NeilMcD** · 06/09/2006, 9:44 AM

Well the old argument goes which would you rather a better team on paper with a poor inexperienced manager or an average side withh a top class manager. I feel that Stauntons management could bring us down to be on a par with Wales with the astute managment of Toshack

**wws** · 06/09/2006, 9:47 AM

Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes.

**NeilMcD** · 06/09/2006, 9:53 AM

Well look at Greece at Euro 2004 or Porto also. Notts Forest won 2 European Finals with not world Class teams. There are cases where if you get a good manager in you can achieve more than if you had a poor manager in. The duty of a manager is to get the maximum out of his team.

**wws** · 06/09/2006, 9:58 AM

I don't subscribe to tactics, never have, never will, but I was just using this thread to quote Brian Clough

**NeilMcD** · 06/09/2006, 10:31 AM

Sure why were you giving out that Staunton was put in charge as clearly you dont think it makes any difference whatsoever. Is this pure Wind up stuff?

**colster** · 06/09/2006, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by wws

Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes.

I don't think it is as easy as that. Of course players are responsible but they need to be prepared and organised correctly. A player needs to feel comfortable and confident in the role he plays on the pitch. There's a lot more to tactical preparation than the formation. If it were soley about the players then why have a manager? Why is M O'Neill doing so much better with the same players that D O'Leary had.

**youngirish** · 06/09/2006, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by wws

Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes.

Not true IMO. In that case why bother with managers? We might aswell have Brady or Dunphy running the team then (please God no).

**wws** · 06/09/2006, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by youngirish

Not true IMO. In that case why bother with managers? Also how can Martin O'Neill (a good manager) come in and totally turn around Villa with almost the same players that O'Leary had 3 months beforehand.

first of all the words above posted by me are a direct quote from one of the games greatest managers, Brian Clough.

second of all your line above is a classic case of everything thats wrong with football commentary by ppl these days - O'Neill has had only a handful of games yet you've already deemed him as completely "turning around" aston villa - it doesn't stand up to any objective reasoning. even o neill will admit that it well take a long time before any definitive judgement can be made on the matter

basic level of organisation is a minimum, nay expected of any competent professionals - most managers can do this - it doesnt require genius "tactics" plucked from the heavens and used only by the chosen few. what the players do on the pitch is down to their abilities and decisions made on the spot - not in reference to a tactics board - ireland have relatively poor players (in the global scheme of things) therefore only have basic heart and work rate to contribute - no "tactics" in the world can transform these guys into better players

i dont blame staunton, he inherited the same poor squad kerr was lumbered with, though he got a lucky break with doyle

**MyTown** · 06/09/2006, 11:23 AM

Given Slovakia's trouncing of Cyprus & how relatively well the Welsh did against Brazil in White Hart Lane last night, I think we have much more than the Czechs to worry about. I've written our chances of a trip to Austria/Switzerland completely off.

**NeilMcD** · 06/09/2006, 11:23 AM

Brian Clough indeed was a genius of a manager because of the simplicity of his managment. However I think Clough liked to portray it as more simple than it actually was. There is many styles of managing a team, from the fiery Ferguson hair dryer stype, to the calm collected syle of Wenger, the O Neill style which only appears on match day etc.

I think Brian Cloughs quote is a bit glib and I agree players do win games but it is also possible for an average bunch of players to over achieve due to the manager that they have. I think we have some poor players and some really good players. Its up to the manager to get them to over achieve. I think with Brian Kerr they probably reached the level they were at. Mc Carthy over time got the team to over achieve. It will be interesting to see how Staunton gets on but so far he has started along the same lines as Mc Carthy did.

**wws** · 06/09/2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Brian Clough indeed was a genius of a manager because of the simplicity of his managment. However I think Clough liked to portray it as more simple than it actually was. There is many styles of managing a team, from the fiery Ferguson hair dryer stype, to the calm collected syle of Wenger, the O Neill style which only appears on match day etc.

I think Brian Cloughs quote is a bit glib and I agree players do win games but it is also possible for an average bunch of players to over achieve due to the manager that they have. I think we have some poor players and some really good players. Its up to the manager to get them to over achieve. I think with Brian Kerr they probably reached the level they were at. Mc Carthy over time got the team to over achieve. It will be interesting to see how Staunton gets on but so far he has started along the same lines as Mc Carthy did.

theres a lot of ppl of the opinion that we have *some* great players - I'm not one of them - in general the so called greats Duff and Keane are a shadow of what is required at the truly top level. when your best player is your keeper you KNOW its a lean patch. as above I think Wales will match our work rate home and away so they wont be beaten easy, cyprus - we should beat them at home but will probably struggle away - the czechs and the slovaks - i think we will be beaten by them

**Billsthoughts** · 06/09/2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Notts Forest won 2 European Finals with not world Class teams.

forest had a feckin brilliant team!!! the chamionships and european cups should be enough to show you this. One of cloughs/Taylors strengths was spotting a good player. tactics are what **** teams use to get draws.

**NeilMcD** · 06/09/2006, 1:28 PM

They had a brilliant team but for a team that won 2 European Cups they were not blessed with World Class players., I am not slagging the players but they did nto have players that would go down as all time greats of world football. In my opinion that is what makes Taylors and Cloughs achievements so good.

**wws** · 06/09/2006, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

They had a brilliant team but for a team that won 2 European Cups they were not blessed with World Class players., I am not slagging the players but they did nto have players that would go down as all time greats of world football. In my opinion that is what makes Taylors and Cloughs achievements so good.

you're not on solid ground here, they did have world class players but none played for world class international teams!

* John McGovern
* John Robertson
* Trevor Francis
* Garry Birtles
* Peter Shilton
* Larry Lloyd
* Kenny Burns
* Martin O'Neill
* Tony Woodcock
* David Needham
* Viv Anderson
* Ian Bowyer
* Archie Gemmill

**NeilMcD** · 06/09/2006, 1:51 PM

I know the players I am still of the view that the team was greater than the sum of its parts.

**Reddladd** · 06/09/2006, 1:51 PM

I would have thought that Peter Shilton, Archie Gemmill, Tony Woodcock, MArtin O'Neill, John Robertson as well as Trevor Francis(first million pound player) and Viv Anderson were pretty handy footballers with plenty of international experience.

**NeilMcD** · 06/09/2006, 1:53 PM

They were handy footballers I never said they were not but I would not describe many of the team as World Class with the possible exception maybe of Peter Shilton. Some very very good players there in my view.