Most of the player rating folks this morning admitting that they were harsh on Manning and that he was man of the match. After sleeping on it, he was the difference in the end. Neither goal happens without him.
I agree - unlike Kenny (who had his system) - HH can adapt and try to work out what suits the players. I wouldn't let Keane or Duff near the job with a barge pole - they are both too volatile, do a lot of shouting and whatever about Keane (who I do think is very smart), Duff is lacking a lot of stuff between the ears.Originally Posted by yurt
Manning has been excellent for Southampton this season - something seems to have clicked for him and hopefully it continues (it is possible that Still is a lot better than I think he is and and tapped into something that has got Manning motoring).
This was tried repeatedly under Kenny though and it didn't work at all. We ended up with three centre backs marking one central striker while other opposition attacking players were given all the time in the world to beat us down the wings and ping 30 yarders past Gavin Bazunu from outside the D, because our players were in the wrong parts of the field to stop it happening. And Paddy McCarthy's more recent efforts to set us up in a 3-4-3 before HH came along were similarly unsuccessful. We don't need to play three centre backs just because we have a lot of centre backs playing at a high level - it's a waste of a player really.
My view is that you actually have to think counterintuitively at times to solve problems. So if your problem is left back, you don't just solve it by not playing a left back, you put the best one you have in there (likely Manning) and make sure he's protected by a centre back and a defensive midfielder.
Similarly if your problem is in centre midfield, rather than just conceding the area you put a third man in there and win it through numbers because no two man combination we can play there will ever be good enough.
Last edited by Eirambler; 07/09/2025 at 2:03 PM.
Wouldn't be too harsh on Idah for celebrating as he did.
In light of what he's been through over the past few weeks, and the criticism at club level especially, that must have been a huge release for him.
And it cost no more than what, 30 seconds?
The first half was atrocious. Doherty looks and plays like he's rather be anywhere else.
Night and day with the second half. It wasn't complicated stuff, just get it wide and knock it into the box, but against a team of a certain quality below, that's enought to rattle them, and it rattled Hungary, and we got the rewards.
Hopefully a confidence boost fpr the Armenia game.
I second the comments about stupid fouls. The kind of situation where the full back has the ball out on the wing, facing his own endline, with the winger pressuring him, and the defender is just begging to be touched from behind so that he can fall over and get a free kick, and they did it over and over. So so silly, but happens with almost every team.
Agree with everything you say here. The system of 4 4-2 is not good. Play 3 at the back and push another player further forward because we are too congested at the back.
Instead of playing the ball in our half we need to play it in our opponents half.
I'm good with playing a more direct style. It suits us because we cannot learn how to play any other way despite years of learning how to and failing the examinations given to us every time. Kenny tried and failed. End of story for the foreseeable future anyway.
Team selection against Hungary was bad. HH scored an own goal by selecting Doherty at LB. He also was too slow to introduce Ogbene and Johnson. They actually can make things happen for us unlike any of the others in the squad. We cannot afford to leave them on the bench
Which Keane ?
Doherty at LB is an absolute nonsense. He's a centre-half now. Have courage and play Manning there.
Cullen and Knight, whilst being our two best CMs on paper, aren't complementary for some reason. I'd bring Taylor in, probably for Knight.
Of course, Molumby should be an option.
Leaving Molumby, Ebosele and Coleman out was stupid.
Let's be honest, there is absolutely no way that Phillips (in St Mirren, playing for the equivalent of a L2 side) would hold down a regular place in a Championship promotion-chasing side like WBA.
I would probably bring Johnston in for Szmodics.
Doherty hasn't played all that well as a left-back for us. So expecting him to play as a right-back is a bit of an ask ! Especially that he is not even playing full-back for Wolves now.
I'd have Taylor in for Cullen. I thought Cullen was woeful last night, his stupid YC topped off his night - I wasn't surprised he was hooked.
This thing about agricultural football / back to the days of Big Jack etc… I’m not buying at all. We moved the ball up the pitch exceptionally well at times and most of the time. Easier against 10 of course. We crossed it relentlessly but the crosses were from advanced positions well up the field and we moved it across the pitch well at times too. The second goal was from us moving the ball across the front of their defense/box and a bit of smarts and subtlety before getting a beauty to Idah. It wasn’t balls into the channels / lump it long like some of the detractors are claiming. Far from it actually. I enjoyed watching how we moved the ball last night in the second half.
I tend to agree. Knight is a solid 6 every game he plays for Ireland and although he doesn't light the world on fire, he doesn't really put a foot wrong and I can't think of a significant mistake he's made.
Cullen seems to have the same virus that Collins has when playing for Ireland. Neither of them seem to be able to bring their club form into the international setup. On the other hand Taylor seems to rise a level when he plays for us. I've watched him a lot for Ipswich and his confidence seems higher when playing for us.
Cullen and knight in general are too similar and I'd hazard a guess that if Cullen wasn't playing that Knight would step into that midfield leadership role that we've been crying out for a bit more.
I think the most disappointing thing for me in the second half was just how many headed efforts we had off target
As someone who made the Charlton comparison I think I should point out I don't consider/intend it to be in any way detracting. It was effective, it was high-energy, it was enjoyable to watch, it got the atmosphere going better than I can remember in a long time. It was pretty basic stuff at times, and I'd love to see us play like Mick Part I, but whatever.
I watched the second half back again today and was seriously impressed with Manning's set piece deliveries. Far more consistently on the money than Brady's are. It's potentially a huge addition to our team for the next few years having a player who can do that and can also contribute from general play - and maybe even help with our left back problems.
Kind of makes you wonder how he was overlooked for so long given our glaring succession issues in that position.
I know he's not always been a starter at Southampton , but still and all
Definitely didn’t interpret your post that way but I’ve seen the references sprinkled all over online in the last 24 hours in a negative way. I agree that whatever it was the tempo was high and it got the blood pumping but it wasn’t Aldridge chasing the ball into the corner flags either!
Fair! That said, we could play a bit of ball under Charlton at times too (only at times, mind). The USSR game was the famous one, but I watched the infamous Norway 94 game over covid and was struck by how well we played in midfield (but were toothless in the last third). We've refined it a bit for sure - Kelleher wasn't lumping it up to the edge of the box for example - but there's a definite comparison there. And I posted earlier about a spell shortly after Hungary had the red card and how it felt like that Wembley game in 1991 - the sustained pressure clip that's often shown. It was very similar. Ball in the box, up for the challenge, the opposition clear, we win it back on half way and into the mixer again - no time for a breather for them, and we kept at it for 2-3 minutes. Just continuous pressure.
As osarusan said "against a team of a certain quality and below, that's enough to rattle them, and it rattled Hungary" - and it's also rattled Serbia, Azerbaijan and Denmark in the past few years too. I'm fine with that. And yeah, you look at sides like Georgia, say, and wonder how they can play such technically adept stuff and we can't. But there's more than one way to skin a cat.
(Actually, I'm seeing now you've gotten rid of your sig about rock and roll football - the second half last night might have been the first time we've really seen it under HH, and it minded me to go look for it)
One thing we do need to change - and I don't know how much we should really read into this - is that in eight of HH's nine competitive games so far, we've conceded the first goal. Finland at home was the only exception. Be nice to buck that trend on Tuesday.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 07/09/2025 at 10:43 PM.
I relly do think that all of this type of stuff indicates that there are issues between the ears. It lacks discipline, some sense, leadership (on the pitch), proper confidence. Fixable stuff tbh. Collins switching off for the 2nd goal, laziness by whoever didnt step out playing the 1st goal onside. Cullen getting booked when a red had already been shown, yeah the Hungarian wasnt leaving the pitch but do add to the delay. Idah, maybe some inexperience, but you get on with things not think about proving a point celebrating - charge back with the ball says more hen needing to win. Score for Swansea and milk the life out of it next weekend. It probably doesnt make a whole lot of difference but i'd play things down in public and have the time raring to go in private, not talking about must wins when we choke until we have throw caution to the wind. Its not new, under Trap eg we were stodgy v France at home 2009 but when we had to go for it in Paris we were world class so if someone can undo that mindset...
It was obviously a tactic but I thought too many of the crosses were from too deep, floated toward a back post, some looking more like an underhit switch than a cross. The equaliser came from a more whipped cross further advanced. There were also times that players that were wider and futher forward didnt get the ball and that diagonal ball was played instead, making it a 50/50 at best. Hungary didnt look confortable but the ultimately coped and scrambled for them.
Anyways, if we start brightly on Tuesday, play a bit differently against different opposition, some change in setup we'll know there have been fixes and what were tactical instructions rather than just hopefuly attempts and playing percentages. I really fear teams breaking against us, for a long time now we just look like we're in a total panic, and thats what Armenia will be at.
Re the Cullen yellow I really think he was unlucky and that the ref thought he was Szmodicz.
Cullen did nothing wrong there whatsoever
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks