Under the auspices of the IFA, the Irish League has been reorganised pretty regularly since around the start of this century on a pyramid basis i.e. Junior to Intermediate to Senior, with varying degrees of movement via Promotion & Relegation between the levels.
More recently the Northern Ireland Football League (i.e. the member clubs) have taken responsibility for administering the top three tiers, Premiership and Championship (both Senior) and Premier Intermediate League. The Prem and Champ currently have 12 clubs each, while the PIL has 14.
Now for whatever reason, the NIFL wants to divest itself of managing the PIL, to concentrate solely on the two (Senior) tiers. Which coincides nicely with the IFA's latest plans to reorganise football below Senior level, as part of their overall 2022-27 Strategy Programme.
The new proposals were originally for 5 tiers each of 12 teams - Prem, Champ, Conference Prem, Conference 1 and Conference 2, with the last three to be regulated by the Northern Amateur League (the foremost of the various lower leagues). But now it seems (probably in order to get support for the changes) that at the end of next season (2025/26), four teams will be promoted from the third tier (PIL) to the Championship, making the latter either 16 teams (no immediate relegation) or 14 teams (2 relegated), yet tbc.
The Belfast Tele has finally found out details of this latest iteration, as follows: https://archive.ph/DmmpL
Anyhow, the general principle is that this reflects the intention "... to create a pathway for clubs where they can go all the way to the top flight of football in the country." (IFA).
While the fact that this is just the latest iteration of several over a 20-odd year process shows how there cannot be a permanent, set format which satisfies everyone, but the system required regular adjustment to meet the differing challenges and changes etc, as and when these crop up. While at the same time, the IFA is progressivly seeking to improve standards re stadia, facilities and infrastructure etc, as a necessary qualification for clubs seeking to rise up the pyramid.
Which in the context of the LOI, suggests that your new two division National League is just the start of the process, not its end.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 25/06/2025 at 6:37 PM.
Interesting changes for sure and, as you rightly say, shouldn't be viewed as a structure that is set in stone forever more but a system where regular adjustments are possible.
Getting this message across, from the FAI to regional leagues, seems to be where our issue is. The problems that aligning the calendar have raised, feels to me like either the message is not being communicated correctly or is not being received with good grace. Hopefully, both parties can come to an agreement.
Havign said that, the further down our pyramid I explore, the more I worry about the small numbers of clubs playing in each division! 7 or 8 clubs is not as uncommon as I would like it to be.
In Kerry, it's often because the lower down the leagues you go, the more the divisions are comprised of B teams/scratch clubs that pretty much reconstitute themselves annually on a recreational basis - if necessary, they could be consolidated into larger divisions, but realistically, you only have about a dozen clubs for whom soccer is a long-term project, so beneath the top two tiers, the number of teams per level doesn't overly matter.
Might that not be a reflection of the lack of a pyramid to date i.e. what's the point of looking to the long term (ambition, essentially), if there's no obvious way of getting there?Originally Posted by culloty82
Obviously the new National League is designed to provide a "stepping stone" for such clubs, which could be what's needed, at least to start* with.
However, the danger is that even if the step from non-League to National League is manageable, the step from there to LOI is too great, esp if the entry requirements for the National League are kept deliberately low (to attract applicants).
Whereas in NI, I guess the new 5 tier pyramid set-up is a recognition that each new step of the ladder has to be manageable from the last one.
* - I'd say it's essential that the FAI get it right with the National League, if they're to continue the pyramid-building process further. Otherwise it could be just another variation of the 'A' League.
I take your point and it's a fair one (as your points usually are!). I think Kerry have a solid league and the leagues that sprang to my mind were more Roscommon, Cavan/Monaghan and Kilkenny who have 8 or less in their top divisions.
Without knowing the local situation in each, they just seemed good candidates to try to encourage growth in or maybe move the first teams to a regional league, leaving the B/scratch teams to play locally (kind of like the NEFL aka former Meath League). Sounds a bit forced I know but I'm trying to imagine how a bottom up approach would look...
Yep, it could well be. But I do wonder if there is a bit of a cultural element to it also; county-level and national-level comps seem to have more value than provincial-level compared to say, rugby, despite our FAs being organised on a provincial level. So despite there seemingly being enough teams to form a Connacht Senior League, there wasn't enough interest to run one. The National League could be an attempt to attract the ambitious clubs who are currently big fishes in small ponds.
I'd be less concerned about low requirements (following any would be great!) and more about the classification of the new National League. If the National League gets classified as senior without different requirements to PD & FD, I could see your prediction of another A Championship come to pass.
How does the IFA classify senior, intermediate and junior levels? According to Wikipedia it's based on set criteria that becomes stricter as you go (sounds sensible) whereas the FAI appear to use geographical spread: national, provincial and county-wide (or smaller). What, in your opinion, would make a PIL club different from a Championship club? E.g. Amateur vs semi-pro, open vs enclosed ground, etc?
I'm sure you're right, except that the cultural identity of Football is (historically) very different from that of GAA i.e. Urban vs Rural, Eastern vs Western etc (I'm simplifying here, but you get my drift).
Anyhow, there have to be reasons why Football struggles in some areas while being strong in others. So that if the game is to develop and expand, it must surely make more sense to do so from the strong centre outwards, rather than try first to elevate new clubs which have very little going for them bar ambition eg Trim Celtic, a small fish in a small pond? (And I appreciate Trim may not get chosen, but the fact that a club with a pitch, a clubhouse and not much else could imagine they are suitable to take their place one level below the First Division suggests that the FAI's consultation/explanatory processes were somewhat superficial).
You would expect it to be Intermediate (fair enough).
But as such, the gulf between the bottom of the FD and the top of the NL should not be so wide as to be insurmountable. Unless, of course, once started the FAI has plans and resources to bridge that gap once the NL is up and running. Who knows?
To answer your question, there are a number of criteria to determine this, a mixture of facilities/infrastructure and playing strength, with the latter determined, as you might expect, by progress up through the various local and regional Junior leagues, on to Intermediate leagues.
Consequently, as standards have been progressively raised following restructuring etc, there have been instances of clubs which have been doing ok on the playing field, still finding themselves held back at, or even demoted to, a lower level when they didn't have, or couldn't guarantee to secure, the required standard of facility. A current example is Dundela FC, a long established and successful semi-pro club in East Belfast, dating from 1895, and with a tidy enough wee ground of their own.
They've been playing in the Championship (2nd tier) for a while now, damn nearly winning it in 2022/23 and 2023/24, but finishing third by a point. Anyhow, under the latest restructuring, they've been told that their pitch isn't wide enough to meet the Premiership's minimum requirement should they get promoted. And despite spending money to upgrade the ground in recent years, they are hemmed in along both sides, so cannot really expand their footprint. Therefore they've finally agreed that should they make it, the first team will groundshare with a nearby team (most likely H&W Welders, who have a terrific new ground):
https://footballchatters.sport.blog/...ssive-dundela/
Another example was Comber Rec, an ambitious Junior/Intermediate club, 75 years established in a growing town which offers a lot of potential. They built a smart new clubhouse and function room which also housed their changing rooms. However, someone at the IFA noticed that the changing rooms were 70(?) yards from the pitch, when the rules specified a maximum of 55 yards, meaning that they looked like being denied continuation in their current league. (This was a while ago, and I assume they eventually got a dispensation of some sort but still, "rules are rules!")
Anyhow the point is, clubs cannot eg simply throw money at players to buy promotion up through the pyramid, while also neglecting their facilities and infrastructure etc.
Meanwhile these are the IFA's Grounds criteria from Nov 2019 (can't find the more recent version), which you'll see is quite detailed:
https://www.irishfa.com/media/41551/...ember-2019.pdf
And here is the timetable for the current restructuring:
https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...IMELINE+S2.pdf
While they also issue Guidance Notes for how clubs may organise themselves to comply (basic enough stuff tbf, but probably still needed at a lot of clubs!):
https://www.irishfa.com/media/57545/...bs-website.pdf
And as I say, the above is just the latest iteration of a process which has been going on for a couple of decades, which has been as much "bottom up" as "top down". (Oh and I shoud add, these reforms haven't always been successful, or widely well-received, but hey, it's the IFA we're talking about!)
Last edited by EalingGreen; 29/06/2025 at 11:02 PM.
Haha there's a lot to cover there so I'll try to take it one bitesize at a time:There's two points here to cover: (1) the best method to grow the game and (2) the best method to reduce the massive steps in quality on the quasi pyramid. I'll cover the first point in this post.
I'll argue that the best method to grow the game isn't from a geographical strong centre outwards (and apologies if that's not what you meant) but a strong methodology i.e. What attracts people into football and keeps them there. Then all that needs to be done is to outline each progression step (great, you're running a youth team with volunteer coaches, now you need a dedicated pitch, owned by a trust and here's how to do that).
Now I would say that the FAI has to be the ones to lead this as, speaking from personal experience, the local County and Provincial FAs in Ireland are more concerned with winning games (the mad inter-provincial or inter-league matches) than growing the game. While the GAA place the same importance on inter-county, it has a better relationship with more communities. So I find it odd why football in the South would follow this model when, as you say, the identity is very different from the GAA.
I would start at youth level as these are the future players and fans. For all their faults, it's important to recognise when the FAI do something right and I think that the introduction of the underage national leagues haven't been given the credit they deserve considering (what I deem) their impact on attendances in the top tier. It filled a missing progression step that should have been added by the SFAI decades ago.
I've enjoyed listening to the take of Ger McDermott, FAI Grassroots Director, regarding this. He wants any kid with a desire to play football, to be able to do so at any time. Imo, it makes a refreshing change from the situation I grew up in where, at U10 level, we played more on the street with no coaches than we did on a pitch with them. By U17 level, only 3 of us were on the pitch more with the rest lost to other sports or interests.
So the potential was there but the structures were not. That requires redirection of resources and better leadership so if the SFAI have to now be dragged kicking and screaming away from their Kennedy Cup and aligned with FAI policy (summer calendar, more SFAI in schools, school leagues) until the FAI clear the debt, then so be it. Growth of the game over catering to the 1% should be their priority.
When this is achieved, I think you'll see more and more stronger clubs locally, driving upwards progression. But the leap from local, let's call it County level, is the next challenge and I'll cover that in my next post.
Now, what's the best method to reduce the massive steps in quality in this quasi pyramid?
I agree but the problem we have, again similar to the GAA, is that there is no definition of 'intermediate'. The closest I can find is that it's whether your club plays at a County level or Provincial level with vague references to ability.
Now for me, the National League level should be amateur but will require lots of travel. Therefore, every team should own a bus and have a car park nearby to park said bus. If they don't, then they have to pay for the away teams parking. Take this criteria and say "if you can afford to do this, you are now at intermediate level". That gives a clear step for those beneath and a trapdoor for senior clubs who don't fulfill the criteria.
Once we know how many intermediate teams we actually have then we can start identifying where the gaps are and how to fix them. I personally think this would reveal about 30 clubs but their attendances might drop if their supporters are also asked to travel provincially/nationally instead of locally.
My personal view is that Trim Celtic are being used by the FAI to encourage bigger Meath clubs to apply but if Trim can do what Loughgall have done and make a Northern National League sustainable, then more power to them. I wish them the best of luck.
But it all comes back to the definition of intermediate, which I feel should be very clear. Going by your answer, the IFA have clear standards for junior, intermediate and senior, strictly enforce these standards and even give guidance on how clubs can organise themselves (the dream!!).
So in summary, I think we both agree that a bottom up AND top down approach is best but any option needs strong leadership, clear guidance and solid support from the top to get buy-in from the clubs and communities below.
I forgot to add that, while we do have leagues in ROI that we call "intermediate", the Connacht and Ulster ones have folded. The Munster and Leinster ones only seem to continue functioning due to them being mostly if not completely made up of Cork (Munster) and Dublin (Leinster) teams who obviously don't have to travel as far to play games.
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