Republic of Ireland v Greece - Tuesday, 10th September 2024 - UEFA Nations League

[Stuttgart88]

I find it hard to believe these players can't play 442, 433 or whatever at short notice especially if the role they are assigned is a natural for for them. In my suggested starting XI and the modifications suggested by others not one player is being asked to play a role or in a position of the pitch he's not familiar with or equipped to play.

And I'll be fuming if we again show the same timid, feeble, toothless and utterly inept rubbish we saw.

[Razors left peg]

There was some startings of discontent during the second half of the England game - general moans at another aimless hoof up the pitch that was about 40 yards away from anyone in a green shirt - and while I think England was always a free hit, I wonder if the performance against Greece is as ropey as Saturday, and if people latch on to the "Learning on the job" aspect of things, could you see the crowd turning on him maybe by the end of the Nations League?

Hope it doesn't come to that obviously, but the initial groundwork seems laid for it anyway.

I think I seen CTP saying something along the lines of that Hallgrimsson will realize very quickly we are not like Iceland if this constant deferring to O'Shea continues. We are an extremely demanding fanbase and the 8 month search for the manager p!ssed so many people off that there really needs to be a bit of hitting the ground running or the fans will turn very quickly and we'll see a lot of empty seats for the Finland game. As it was the England game only sold out last week, that would have been unheard of in the past, it would have been impossible to get tickets months from the game.

Its just such a strange situation. I've never seen a manager be so unwilling to take over and put his stamp on things. Usually these guys have massive egos and want to do things their own way. Hallgrimsson seems naive at the moment and doesnt seem to understand fully get how insanely mental we are as a sporting nation. We have been above our station in football before and there is always a constand demand that we get back to it, its delusional on our parts, but its there none the less.

It'll be exactly 2 months tomorrow that he was appointed and that is long enough for anyone in any industry to get up to speed in a job. Using O'Shea as his training wheels is as big a disaster as most here feared it would be, but I dont think any of us expected this level of deferral. When Hallgrimsson said he wanted to lean on O'Shea for this window I thought that he might step back in training and watch O'Shea and McCarthy take the lead, but it was clearly O'Shea picking the team on Saturday and sending him out to do todays Press Conference is beyond the Pale and should be setting off alarm bells for everyone.

Meanwhile Canham getting a promotion for coordinating this farce is beyond vomit inducing. That smug cnut should have been fired along with Hill, but here we are giving the keys to football in the country over to him. I fully believe we are run worse now than under Delaney.

[Diggs246]

Christ, let's hope HHs confidence isn't in the jacks after Jamaica.
That would be a car crash for us.

If we play the wing backs tomorrow I think we will lose. Why wouldn't we?

If we play 4-5-1
I genuinely think we will win!

[elatedscum]

Yep, I thought Scales was poor at left wing back when picked there before looking good when replacing Collins at left CB (can't remember which game though - Belgium?). But orthodox left back might suit him better.

Pretty sure it was the home Greece game and actually orthodox left back and replacing Collins in left of a two.

The away Greece game in the June heat, Kenny played 5-3-2 - we got destroyed out wide, where they got 3v2 and 2v1 constantly, with Tsimikas killing us. Greece played with both wingers hugging the line and at times, midfielders and/or the striker dropping out wide. So often our three centre halves had nothing to do and they dominated the game. Both their goals came from O’Dowda, the first the handball and the second was him switching off from a throw in. They were basically bating us - are you prepared to pull both your right and left centre halves out to the wing, and stretch your centre backs, will your centre half follow the centre forward into midfield - and if not, we’ll just dominate 10 v 7 on the rest of the pitch. It was a game largely won on the tactics board.

The home game, Kenny decided he needed to go back to a back 4 (Doherty-Duffy-Collins-Scales) with Scales playing left back. We started strong, had a few chances, Ferguson hit the post after 5 mins. They got a goal after about 20 mins from a deep Tsimikas cross to a man between Collins and Scales (probably more Collins man). There were other issues between both, passing out for the back, one where Collins passed to Scales and Scales assumed it wasn’t for him cause of the pace it was hit and didn’t go for it and the Greek lad got it and Collins berated him. Just before half time, they broke on us and Collins did his best job of non-defending you’ll ever see - plays the guy onside, doesn’t engage him, doesn’t really try block the cross and they score from it, slightly lucky as a scuffed shot goes straight to their man.

Collins got taken off at half time and Scales moved to centre half. Scales had a good game there. Atmosphere was gone 2-0 down and we never recovered and didn’t really create enough (i think Robinson hit the post and Doherty had a header that the keeper saved well). Meanwhile Bazunu made a good few saves to keep it at 2. Probably tactically a better set up but just a really poor performance after the initial few mins. The Greeks got their goals and did a good job of dampening expectations.

I watched the really short highlights I could find of Greece Finland and they looked equally dangerous out wide, with Tsimikas overlapping much more. I do think it’s probably a game for 4-3-3 - but I’d rather go with 5-2-3 over 5-3-2 - you just don’t want their fullbacks getting free reign, maybe the compromise is playing Knight out wide which allows you to pull him into midfield and go man for man with your left centre half and left wing back if the midfield is being over run.

I do think the makeup of the squad is really hampering our ability to changes things tactically and calling up 23 vs 25/26/27/28. If you’re playing with wingers, you’d like Mikey Johnston to be there. If you’re starting with 3 in midfield, you’d like more than 4 midfielders to be in the squad and either Azaz or McGrath or both on the bench.

[CraftyToePoke]

Just for compare / contrast here are a couple of bits & bear in mind Carsley is in his role less time than HH & yes, he knows all his players already, granted, however.

Has watched HHs games as Jamaica manager ::

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...eadmore-target

I’ve watched a few of the games that the coach (Heimir Hallgrímsson) was recently involved in with Jamaica as well, just to give us an idea of potentially how they might play

& post match from about ten minutes in to this eleven minute piece he says, he sussed it'd be an O'Shea selection & therefore a five and had focused training on two / three ways to get at us.

https://www.facebook.com/talkSPORT/v...40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

Point is he's in the job less time & had prepped for either outcome. So, early days with HH, too early for verdicts etc but our guy still won't own any aspect of his role & the comparison is stark.

[pineapple stu]

I think I seen CTP saying something along the lines of that Hallgrimsson will realize very quickly we are not like Iceland if this constant deferring to O'Shea continues. We are an extremely demanding fanbase and the 8 month search for the manager p!ssed so many people off that there really needs to be a bit of hitting the ground running or the fans will turn very quickly and we'll see a lot of empty seats for the Finland game. As it was the England game only sold out last week, that would have been unheard of in the past, it would have been impossible to get tickets months from the game.

Its just such a strange situation. I've never seen a manager be so unwilling to take over and put his stamp on things. Usually these guys have massive egos and want to do things their own way. Hallgrimsson seems naive at the moment and doesnt seem to understand fully get how insanely mental we are as a sporting nation. We have been above our station in football before and there is always a constand demand that we get back to it, its delusional on our parts, but its there none the less.

It'll be exactly 2 months tomorrow that he was appointed and that is long enough for anyone in any industry to get up to speed in a job. Using O'Shea as his training wheels is as big a disaster as most here feared it would be, but I dont think any of us expected this level of deferral. When Hallgrimsson said he wanted to lean on O'Shea for this window I thought that he might step back in training and watch O'Shea and McCarthy take the lead, but it was clearly O'Shea picking the team on Saturday and sending him out to do todays Press Conference is beyond the Pale and should be setting off alarm bells for everyone.

Meanwhile Canham getting a promotion for coordinating this farce is beyond vomit inducing. That smug cnut should have been fired along with Hill, but here we are giving the keys to football in the country over to him. I fully believe we are run worse now than under Delaney.

I'm not sure I agree with the bits in bold - I don't see any pigs' heads being thrown on to the pitch any time soon, and if Canham buys us all a few pints we'll be grand - but I agree with the rest of it. I think it's the cumulation of the Kenny era, the huge drawn-out search for a manager and the hands off approach so far (I think it was texidub who put it very well that he hasn't being paid €100k so far to learn about us) - if you add more disjointed performances like Tuesday, things could get tricky. I think Kenny's case was always helped by the fact he was clearly trying to get us to play nice stuff and that'll always help a manager in trouble.

To be playing bad football and getting bad results is a recipe for disaster.

[Razors left peg]

I'm not sure I agree with the bits in bold - I don't see any pigs' heads being thrown on to the pitch any time soon, and if Canham buys us all a few pints we'll be grand - but I agree with the rest of it. I think it's the cumulation of the Kenny era, the huge drawn-out search for a manager and the hands off approach so far (I think it was texidub who put it very well that he hasn't being paid €100k so far to learn about us) - if you add more disjointed performances like Tuesday, things could get tricky. I think Kenny's case was always helped by the fact he was clearly trying to get us to play nice stuff and that'll always help a manager in trouble.

To be playing bad football and getting bad results is a recipe for disaster.

Our whole country is obsessed with sport, mainly from armchairs but its an obsession none the less. There wont be any pigs heads being thrown, but there will be empty seats. You're right that Kenny got support for what he was trying and right to the end the stadium was mainly full... but the FAI only have to look at the summer friendlies to see how quickly the stadium will look empty if the O'Shea thing continues, the fans didnt want him then and dont want him now and Hallgrimsson needs to start putting a stamp on this very quickly

[liamoo11]

Pretty sure it was the home Greece game and actually orthodox left back and replacing Collins in left of a two.

The away Greece game in the June heat, Kenny played 5-3-2 - we got destroyed out wide, where they got 3v2 and 2v1 constantly, with Tsimikas killing us. Greece played with both wingers hugging the line and at times, midfielders and/or the striker dropping out wide. So often our three centre halves had nothing to do and they dominated the game. Both their goals came from O’Dowda, the first the handball and the second was him switching off from a throw in. They were basically bating us - are you prepared to pull both your right and left centre halves out to the wing, and stretch your centre backs, will your centre half follow the centre forward into midfield - and if not, we’ll just dominate 10 v 7 on the rest of the pitch. It was a game largely won on the tactics board.

The home game, Kenny decided he needed to go back to a back 4 (Doherty-Duffy-Collins-Scales) with Scales playing left back. We started strong, had a few chances, Ferguson hit the post after 5 mins. They got a goal after about 20 mins from a deep Tsimikas cross to a man between Collins and Scales (probably more Collins man). There were other issues between both, passing out for the back, one where Collins passed to Scales and Scales assumed it wasn’t for him cause of the pace it was hit and didn’t go for it and the Greek lad got it and Collins berated him. Just before half time, they broke on us and Collins did his best job of non-defending you’ll ever see - plays the guy onside, doesn’t engage him, doesn’t really try block the cross and they score from it, slightly lucky as a scuffed shot goes straight to their man.

Collins got taken off at half time and Scales moved to centre half. Scales had a good game there. Atmosphere was gone 2-0 down and we never recovered and didn’t really create enough (i think Robinson hit the post and Doherty had a header that the keeper saved well). Meanwhile Bazunu made a good few saves to keep it at 2. Probably tactically a better set up but just a really poor performance after the initial few mins. The Greeks got their goals and did a good job of dampening expectations.

I watched the really short highlights I could find of Greece Finland and they looked equally dangerous out wide, with Tsimikas overlapping much more. I do think it’s probably a game for 4-3-3 - but I’d rather go with 5-2-3 over 5-3-2 - you just don’t want their fullbacks getting free reign, maybe the compromise is playing Knight out wide which allows you to pull him into midfield and go man for man with your left centre half and left wing back if the midfield is being over run.

I do think the makeup of the squad is really hampering our ability to changes things tactically and calling up 23 vs 25/26/27/28. If you’re playing with wingers, you’d like Mikey Johnston to be there. If you’re starting with 3 in midfield, you’d like more than 4 midfielders to be in the squad and either Azaz or McGrath or both on the bench.

I think our problem will be getting dragged out wide to match up with their high full backs which killed us last time. I think you need to be disciplined let them have the width but stay compact centrally be prepared to defend the crosses from out near the touchline but engage them 10 yards in from the touchline not out on the touchline where you then leave oceans of space centrally.

[John83]

Must say scurrilous diatribe is nice turn of phrase

It's not a bad tagline for the forum if we're looking to do some social media push at a later date.

I'm worried about how quickly pressure will build if we're crap against Greece. They're not a bad team, and we could play reasonably well and still lose, but a toothless performance would see knives sharpened. There's too much riding on this game.

[CraftyToePoke]

The away Greece game in the June heat, Kenny played 5-3-2 - we got destroyed out wide, where they got 3v2 and 2v1 constantly, with Tsimikas killing us.

The night Poyet pulled Kennys trousers down after five minutes and smirked at him failing to pull them back up for the rest of it. Tactically speaking. All after we'd had a big extended prep camp for the game too wasn't it.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'm worried about how quickly pressure will build if we're crap against Greece. They're not a bad team, and we could play reasonably well and still lose

Their Finland win the other night was very comfortable and impressive in parts, cohesive. But we can surely expect a response from our players, they get off scot free whoever manages them. There's a collective responsibility too, or we can continue to hang one man out to dry on repeat, until no one wants the job at all, we were close to that this time round.

[Razors left peg]

It's not a bad tagline for the forum if we're looking to do some social media push at a later date.

I'm worried about how quickly pressure will build if we're crap against Greece. They're not a bad team, and we could play reasonably well and still lose, but a toothless performance would see knives sharpened. There's too much riding on this game.

Greece are good. Pavlidis was only on the bench for them the other night, hes is who Parrott replaced at AZ. A 30 goal a season man in the Dutch leagues, moved to Benfica and has started well there. If Parrott had that kind of next few seasons we'd be wetting ourselves.

They are very capable of giving us a spanking and immediately things will turn sour. The best part of a new manager is a renewed hope. Theres sometimes a new manager bounce and theres always a bit of a honeymoon period where no one quite wants to talk about their failings even if they are obvious. By giving away control Hallgrimsson risks losing all of those new manager benefits and it could be ugly

[Stuttgart88]

We played great against Czechs at home (1-1) after losing 5-2 in Cyprus.

I loathe the term “passion” in football but if you’re second best a bit of fight certainly helps. We showed that in the above game. I’d expect nothing less tomorrow.

[texidub]

Not getting any points tonight would be a disaster for the new management ("same as the old management" to mangle a political line). Whatever you think about Kenny, as things stand, his Ireland team performed better against France and Portugal than we did against England - a sobering thought.

Expecting a loss, would be satisfied with a draw and delighted with a win. Rarely felt so flat and pessimistic before an Ireland match.

[Acornvilla]

I am finding it difficult to be optimistic, and worry Greece are in fact quite good and maybe even better than last time around, while it is very tough to know where we are. As I said before I'll be happy enough to give him some time, but I'm not sure the wider public have any patience left to give. Not just because of the England match, but probably *gestures at everything* since Champaign football, there has been little joy, the WNT qualifying for a world cup aside. These are angry times we live in, try not to be too worked up no matter what happens, it can still get better

If it gets worse and we end up in league C, at least we will have probably hit rock bottom, and have an opportunity to begin the climb again. I've been banging the we need massive investment domestically, to have any real long term success drum for a long time, and that is still where I stand, much else is rearranging deckchairs on the titanic. A 4-2-3-1 formation would make me at least feel like we're trying stuff thou.

[Stuttgart88]

Pretty sure it was the home Greece game and actually orthodox left back and replacing Collins in left of a two.

Thanks. As I approach 60 my memories are becoming less clear, though I think part of it is that all these games are blurring into one as they have all been so similarly dispiriting.

[Razors left peg]

I am finding it difficult to be optimistic, and worry Greece are in fact quite good and maybe even better than last time around, while it is very tough to know where we are. As I said before I'll be happy enough to give him some time, but I'm not sure the wider public have any patience left to give. Not just because of the England match, but probably *gestures at everything* since Champaign football, there has been little joy, the WNT qualifying for a world cup aside. These are angry times we live in, try not to be too worked up no matter what happens, it can still get better

If it gets worse and we end up in league C, at least we will have probably hit rock bottom, and have an opportunity to begin the climb again. I've been banging the we need massive investment domestically, to have any real long term success drum for a long time, and that is still where I stand, much else is rearranging deckchairs on the titanic. A 4-2-3-1 formation would make me at least feel like we're trying stuff thou.

I think we'd all be happy to give him some time, but it seems his time hasn't even started yet...and that's the problem

[Acornvilla]

As time has passed I've become more convinced I was right in thinking he's just gotten his excuses in early because he knew the first window would be very tough. I don't think it has gone down as well as he would have liked. I don't think saying you're taking a bit of a back seat hands off approach to leadership in the beginning of a new role works quite as well(or is received quite as well) in football as it might in other industries. Maybe it will work and he will have learned a lot, including about the competency of his staff. I'd expect him to change how he is speaking, and to be more hands on with press conferences in window 2. So I'll hold off having a real opinion on that until then too. If he's not clearly leading everything by then with a camp under his belt and another month to scout I'll have questions.

He seems like a decent guy who has ideas about what he wants. Weather I'll agree with them or they're good ideas remains to be seen

[nigel-harps1954]

Just hoping for a few changes tonight. I couldn't even drag myself to travel for the game today. It's been tougher and tougher traveling for games this year and it'll make the season ticket renewal choice a difficult one next year.

[Razors left peg]

As time has passed I've become more convinced I was right in thinking he's just gotten his excuses in early because he knew the first window would be very tough. I don't think it has gone down as well as he would have liked. I don't think saying you're taking a bit of a back seat hands off approach to leadership in the beginning of a new role works quite as well(or is received quite as well) in football as it might in other industries. Maybe it will work and he will have learned a lot, including about the competency of his staff. I'd expect him to change how he is speaking, and to be more hands on with press conferences in window 2. So I'll hold off having a real opinion on that until then too. If he's not clearly leading everything by then with a camp under his belt and another month to scout I'll have questions.

He seems like a decent guy who has ideas about what he wants. Weather I'll agree with them or they're good ideas remains to be seen

He seems like a very decent guy and its one of the reasons that there was a bit of excitement at his appointment. He comes across very well in interviews but at this stage there seems to be a naivety about him that he'll have to learn to lose very quickly.

I really hope someone has had the good sense to pull him aside and tell him that he can no longer talk about taking a back seat in interviews. From today on he needs to come across as having more authority, even if behind the scenes things wont actually change until the next window. If in the pre and post match interviews today he is still talking about JOS and McCarthy taking the lead then its very clear that no one within the FAI is even capable of managing the basics of PR and they cannot think on the fly.