Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

[ifk101]

If the FAI want an Ireland based manager, I think that means the job description brief extends beyond managing the senior team – maybe they are seeking somebody that also has a wider vision/ input for the development, direction, structures feeding into the senior team? If so, this would stipulate the role is a full-time, hands-on position and being based in Ireland is a practical necessity to fulfill job expectations. That sounds good to me but finding a candidate to meet those expectations will be troublesome especially when the CEO is not leading by example ....

[The Fly]

If the FAI want an Ireland based manager, I think that means the job description brief extends beyond managing the senior team – maybe they are seeking somebody that also has a wider vision/ input for the development, direction, structures feeding into the senior team? If so, this would stipulate the role is a full-time, hands-on position and being based in Ireland is a practical necessity to fulfill job expectations...

Which means…they want Stephen Kenny!

The FAI are playing 4D chess here.

[Olé Olé]

Yes, an England based CEO wants an Ireland based senior manager. That rules out all names mentioned so far, no?

I hope this isn't as straight forward as you make it and Dan reports it but I'm concerned that it is.

Between the pay debacle and the fact that this guy can't secure a sponsor whilst coming from a commercial background and this, the guy is an absolute cod...

[Diggs246]

I hope this isn't as straight forward as you make it and Dan reports it but I'm concerned that it is.

Between the pay debacle and the fact that this guy can't secure a sponsor whilst coming from a commercial background and this, the guy is an absolute cod...

He has also been caught taking an unauthorised 20k?! what are we waiting for here

[EAFC_rdfl]

I hope this isn't as straight forward as you make it and Dan reports it but I'm concerned that it is.

Between the pay debacle and the fact that this guy can't secure a sponsor whilst coming from a commercial background and this, the guy is an absolute cod...

he's a cod Bill!

[Stuttgart88]

I hope this isn't as straight forward as you make it and Dan reports it but I'm concerned that it is.

Dan is saying it's more nuanced than that on Twitter, in among the replies to his main article.

Dan McD: "I think it’s more about finding a halfway house between complete disconnect that existed with previous absentee managers … and obviously it’s not going to be another Kenny in terms of visibility but they did create culture of regular meetings/presence in FAI HQ".

[seanfhear]

Which means…they want Stephen Kenny!

The FAI are playing 4D chess here.

lol !

[SkStu]

If the FAI want an Ireland based manager, I think that means the job description brief extends beyond managing the senior team – maybe they are seeking somebody that also has a wider vision/ input for the development, direction, structures feeding into the senior team? If so, this would stipulate the role is a full-time, hands-on position and being based in Ireland is a practical necessity to fulfill job expectations. That sounds good to me but finding a candidate to meet those expectations will be troublesome especially when the CEO is not leading by example ....

And so it is written.

[EalingGreen]

Look at it from a personal perspective etc etc etc

Everyone seems to be overlooking one glaring personal aspect, namely the guy is English! You know, born in England, brought up in England, has worked all his life in England (including for the English FA), while I assume his wife and family are all English, as is 75% of his own ancestry etc. Plus many/most of his schoolmates, friends, workmates etc.

Which is not to say he isn't proud of his Irish heritage and wasn't very proud to play for ROI etc. But it's not like eg half a century or more ago where some fella might go over to England to work on a building site; drink in Irish pubs of a Saturday and go to church of a Sunday; marry an Irish nurse and settle in Kilburn or Luton; go back to Ireland for the odd family funeral etc and dream of retiring back "home" when the time came. Much of which was then passed on to the next generation.

Which is in no way to disparage anyone a generation further removed, who inherited it from a grandparent and feels as Irish as Guinness etc, as Carsley may do. But other than his 40 ROI caps, is there any great evidence that he is eg another Kevin Kilbane?

And as for the caps let's face it, Carsley was never going to get even a single England cap, so that was hardly a matter of "choice", as managing either country may turn out to be.

[EalingGreen]

Yes, an England based CEO wants an Ireland based senior manager. That rules out all names mentioned so far, no?

Rules in Neil Lennon surely?

I mean the man has made huge investments in the country, land and property etc, showing where his heart lies.

No, wait...

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Prope.....-a0222337636

[seanfhear]

Everyone seems to be overlooking one glaring personal aspect, namely the guy is English! You know, born in England, brought up in England, has worked all his life in England (including for the English FA), while I assume his wife and family are all English, as is 75% of his own ancestry etc. Plus many/most of his schoolmates, friends, workmates etc.

Which is not to say he isn't proud of his Irish heritage and wasn't very proud to play for ROI etc. But it's not like eg half a century or more ago where some fella might go over to England to work on a building site; drink in Irish pubs of a Saturday and go to church of a Sunday; marry an Irish nurse and settle in Kilburn or Luton; go back to Ireland for the odd family funeral etc and dream of retiring back "home" when the time came. Much of which was then passed on to the next generation.

Which is in no way to disparage anyone a generation further removed, who inherited it from a grandparent and feels as Irish as Guinness etc, as Carsley may do. But other than his 40 ROI caps, is there any great evidence that he is eg another Kevin Kilbane?

And as for the caps let's face it, Carsley was never going to get even a single England cap, so that was hardly a matter of "choice", as managing either country may turn out to be.

Worse players than Lee Carsley have got England Caps ~ A lot worse.

[jbyrne]

Worse players than Lee Carsley have got England Caps ~ A lot worse.

yes, sure 21 cap dennis wise was part of the england squad when carsley was playing for us

[Diggs246]

Everyone seems to be overlooking one glaring personal aspect, namely the guy is English! You know, born in England, brought up in England, has worked all his life in England (including for the English FA), while I assume his wife and family are all English, as is 75% of his own ancestry etc. Plus many/most of his schoolmates, friends, workmates etc.

Which is not to say he isn't proud of his Irish heritage and wasn't very proud to play for ROI etc. But it's not like eg half a century or more ago where some fella might go over to England to work on a building site; drink in Irish pubs of a Saturday and go to church of a Sunday; marry an Irish nurse and settle in Kilburn or Luton; go back to Ireland for the odd family funeral etc and dream of retiring back "home" when the time came. Much of which was then passed on to the next generation.

Which is in no way to disparage anyone a generation further removed, who inherited it from a grandparent and feels as Irish as Guinness etc, as Carsley may do. But other than his 40 ROI caps, is there any great evidence that he is eg another Kevin Kilbane?

And as for the caps let's face it, Carsley was never going to get even a single England cap, so that was hardly a matter of "choice", as managing either country may turn out to be.

But lets be fair, were you not born in the island of Ireland, brought up in Ireland, schooled in Ireland etc etc. but you are sill British right?
Lee might feel English and Irish. I might be mistaken, but didn't he turn down under age caps for England instead picking Ireland ( I might be wrong on that but i did hear it somewhere)

[EalingGreen]

But lets be fair, were you not born in the island of Ireland, brought up in Ireland, schooled in Ireland etc etc. but you are sill British right?
Lee might feel English and Irish. I might be mistaken, but didn't he turn down under age caps for England instead picking Ireland ( I might be wrong on that but i did hear it somewhere)

Yes, I am British - it says so on my passport, the British state built the hospital I was born in and educated me etc (as well as taking taxes off me in return!)

But I am also Irish - it's obvious the moment I open my mouth! And as someone who is proud of both, there is no contradiction, any more than someone who feels eg Scottish and British.

Above all, I am Northern Irish, which for me quite happily accommodates both.

Meanwhile I don't resent others in my situation who feel differently, unless of course they deny me my own preference and try to dictate to me what I am/should be.

And getting back to Carsley, I'm guessing that he does feel both English and Irish and who knows, maybe even British as well?

My point being that there are some people on here who in suggesting that his "default position" should be the ROI job, seem to be in denial about the Englishness in him, even though that may reflect his self-identification more than his Irishness.

[Razors left peg]

Yes, I am British - it says so on my passport, the British state built the hospital I was born in and educated me etc (as well as taking taxes off me in return!)

But I am also Irish - it's obvious the moment I open my mouth! And as someone who is proud of both, there is no contradiction, any more than someone who feels eg Scottish and British.

Above all, I am Northern Irish, which for me quite happily accommodates both.

Meanwhile I don't resent others in my situation who feel differently, unless of course they deny me my own preference and try to dictate to me what I am/should be.

And getting back to Carsley, I'm guessing that he does feel both English and Irish and who knows, maybe even British as well?

My point being that there are some people on here who in suggesting that his "default position" should be the ROI job, seem to be in denial about the Englishness in him, even though that may reflect his self-identification more than his Irishness.

Carsley doesn't feel British enough to sing GSTQ at matches though

[EalingGreen]

Carsley doesn't feel British enough to sing GSTQ at matches though

I don't sing it either. (Or GSTK)

[SkStu]

He grew up in a one parent home where his Irishness was front and centre. He also says at the time, it wasn’t really even a choice.

"I got called up by England and Ireland’s U21 squad on the same day but never really considered it (England). I was playing well at the time after getting into the Derby team at 19 and was playing in the same team as Paul McGrath.

My football idol was Paul and I was lucky enough to play with him at Derby for seven months towards the end of his career. Just to see him in action first-hand was fantastic.

"I’d been a big fan; watching all the games he played for Ireland, including the World Cup.

"He inspired me to want to go on and replicate some of the experiences he had. I obviously never reached the heights he had with Ireland, but at the time, that was my goal.

It was back when myself and Kevin Kilbane were both doing our coaching badges,'' he said. "We spoke to the FAI and asked if they'd consider us in the future, that we'd love to help out with future internationals.

"They took our details. Took our phone numbers, and that was it. That's as far as it went. It's a shame, really. The fact that a lot of the ex-internationals are now getting involved with the FAI is a positive.

"Don't get me wrong, just because you played for Ireland doesn't automatically mean you should coach there. You should earn your stripes, you should be at a certain level and you should want to develop the game.

Myself and Kevin were both in that bracket at the time. We were looking to improve the standard of players and teams that were coming through in Ireland.

Just a few interesting quotes I came across this morning. Fair to say, he’s had a complicated relationship with Ireland (though not his Irishness) and, how I’d put it, some issues with how he’s seen in Ireland. He seems to feel a bit under-appreciated but also admits he never was able to show his best - and it seems to eat at him a bit. He hated his WC02 experience and being away from his family and his newborn son who has Downs Syndrome.

[Razors left peg]

So about a month ago I put a bet on Carsley at 10/3. Max allowed was €150 on PP. Yesterday Carsley was at 10/1 on SkyBet so I tried to put €100 on and the max allowed was €50. That €50 bet brought the odds into 6/1.

Maybe I'm wrong here but to me the fact that they are limiting to such small amounts and small bets are changing the odds so much shows that the bookies have little, if any more info than we have.

This morning I read a story in The Mirror (yes I know). There was an interesting part though that reminded that both Trap and O'Neill initially said no while the played hardball to get the job on their terms with staff etc. I might be extremely naive, but I'm still convinced it's going to end up being Carsley

[Jolly Red Giant]

Everyone seems to be overlooking one glaring personal aspect, namely the guy is English! You know, born in England, brought up in England, has worked all his life in England (including for the English FA), while I assume his wife and family are all English, as is 75% of his own ancestry etc. Plus many/most of his schoolmates, friends, workmates etc.

Which is not to say he isn't proud of his Irish heritage and wasn't very proud to play for ROI etc. But it's not like eg half a century or more ago where some fella might go over to England to work on a building site; drink in Irish pubs of a Saturday and go to church of a Sunday; marry an Irish nurse and settle in Kilburn or Luton; go back to Ireland for the odd family funeral etc and dream of retiring back "home" when the time came. Much of which was then passed on to the next generation.

Which is in no way to disparage anyone a generation further removed, who inherited it from a grandparent and feels as Irish as Guinness etc, as Carsley may do. But other than his 40 ROI caps, is there any great evidence that he is eg another Kevin Kilbane?

And as for the caps let's face it, Carsley was never going to get even a single England cap, so that was hardly a matter of "choice", as managing either country may turn out to be.

You are making an awful lot of assumptions about Carsley without knowing any facts - so just to scratch the surface to enlighten you (and Stu has already given you some quotes) -

Carsley was raised in a single parent household - the Irish side of the family. When he broke into the DErby team he was called into the England and Ireland U21 squads at the same time - and he said himself about England that he 'never considered it'. He nearly ended up playing gaelic football rather than soccer because he spent a lot of time growing up with his cousins in Dunmanway.

One of the first things he did when he started coaching was himself and Kevin Kilbane approached and met with the FAI about working with Irish underage players in Ireland and in England - the FAI stupidly chose not to follow up on the offer from Carsley.

In terms of his view of his career (and this is from a recent interview) - 'I’ve got a long-term vision of where I see myself as a coach. Management is in that vision but not within the next week or so. It’s a long-term plan and I’ve still got a lot of things to develop before I’m ready. I want it to be a long-term profession, I want to be a top manager and I’m still in what I would call an apprenticeship phase.'

The reality is that Lee Carsley is going to do what is right for Lee Carsley - and I for one would acknowledge that he has every right to do just that. If the FAI are demanding an Irish based manager then that could be the deal breaker for Carsley because he would not be willing to disrupt his family life in such a fashion.

[seanfhear]

Wouldn't an Irish manager have to spend a huge amount of time in England watching / evaluating Irish players in England ? !