Infraction discussion

[SkStu]

My Post got deleted yesterday but Foot.ie has the feeling of an echo chamber for some members. All dissenters vilified like under Pinochets Chile.

That's not true Paul. You've been a long time dissenter/contrarian on many fronts over the last 20 years and its always been tolerated and fine. The tone of the forum has changed for the worse over the last year, led by a handful of posters with strong opinions and zero flexibility or openness to alternative views (which i think has emboldened you even more tbh). Almost everything has become a referendum on Kenny and it is weird. We've had bad managers and differences of opinion before on these types of issues so its never really been an echo-chamber but, this time, it has become really wearing and quite a few regular, valued posters have disappeared or just dont contribute as much as they used to. Which I just think is a bit of a shame.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

^ Looks like Paul O'Shea is getting cancelled as the kids say. Is there any truth in what he's saying? Threats of infractions and bannings do seem to be only for certain posters. It would be a shame to have someone kicked off the forum for having a differing opinion. Paul O'Shea seems like a decent poster.

[Stuttgart88]

In my experience nobody gets infractions for opinions, only for trolling.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Maybe it was in the deleted posts but I haven't seen any trolling from Paul O'Shea. Maybe it goes by reported posts? It would be sad if that was the case. Are people reporting posts on this forum?

[tetsujin1979]

Maybe it was in the deleted posts but I haven't seen any trolling from Paul O'Shea. Maybe it goes by reported posts? It would be sad if that was the case. Are people reporting posts on this forum?

Paul has a long history of it, as Stu said it was broadly tolerated but recently he crossed a line, and was punished for it. He's on a break from the forum now.
There's a report link on every post -

[tetsujin1979]

Off topic posts moved from the Euro 2024 Qualification Group B thread

[dahamsta]

The user in question was automatically suspended via infractions. We'll decide over the next few days whether to make it permanent, or give a final warning.

Speaking generally, there is a relatively recent (1-2 years) problem here with users that post reams of mildly annoying comments, and it can genuinely be hard to tell with some of them in the current environment if they're just thick, or they actually believe what they're saying, or they're "smart" trolls; and the word smart is used advisedly there, anyone that spends that much time trolling is not the kind of smart that I admire.

This, combined with the increasing binary nature of people's mindsets these days, driven by politics, media (TV and radio) and The Media (news and opinion) is increasingly disruptive on communities, although I'd argue that relatively unfiltered, un-algorithmed communities like Foot.ie suffer less from it than popular social media. I think it anything, people should be revolving back to sites like this, but then I would say that, wouldn't I.

However the upshot is that they are here, and they are disruptive, and while we do try to deal with them, to be perfectly frank you're not helping yourselves with how you deal with them. You engage with them, which is giving them exactly what they want, whether they're trolls or not. You don't report them because you couldn't be arsed.

I'm not disclaiming responsibility here, I recognise it as my problem too, however if you want to actually dispense with this problem, you need to take an active part. If they're not adding anything to the discussion, ignore their posts. If they rile you up, be the bigger person and don't respond -- I mean seriously, it's fundamental sticks-and-stones. If you find it hard to resist, add them to your ignore list, it's not difficult. And if it's clearly trolling, report it, again it's not hard.

[Kingdom]

It's an internet discussion board. People disagree on things, have different points of view etc. Not everything has to be a heated argument. Some people seem to take others having an opposing view personally.

This forum has been absolutely brilliant. For years. In 20 years, there's been all sorts. Fellas who were mods here that the oldies loved, who've passed away. Its actually more than an Internet discussion forum. This is going to be overstated, exaggerated whatever you'll have yourself, but all the good work that YBIG have done on the supporting side has in it's genesis, posters who posted here, made friends from this forum and went away and took it into real life. That is more than a discussion forum. And in a society (ireland) where so many arseholes haven't a clue because they are so obsessed by supporting Liverpool or United without actually contributing to football, the discussion and quality of that discussion here is valued because of the experiences of the posters.

Some were saying they don't want to post anymore, there was one fella who came on to put all 'anti Kenny' supporters back in their box. He ended up basically saying 'your mum'.
I just don't get it. Why the bitterness? We all want what's best for Ireland, we just think there's different ways of going about it.

I'll take this one Cotton. That was me.
I've been posting 20 years here. I love(d) foot. I think about previous and current posters (and i Don't put myself in that category) who you'd be delighted to see their insights on screen and think about how much absolute f'cking garbage (nor this one to be fair) gets posted on an almost consistent basis.
On the "your mum" angle. I engaged what I consider to be Wum posting with wummery comments. I don't put people on ignore and rarely report posts, but have felt more likely to doing that than ever before. Because there is no debate with a cohort of people here. There is drudgery. absolute and pure drudgery. No debate, no discussion, no consideration of the other opinion or any assuage of one's own opinion - absolute fanaticism. And that's why "the anti-Kenny" (as you call them) posters are infuriating, as it is reminiscent of the extremism that we see in the media, politics, society: whereby if you appear to concede ground in anyway - even if that just means rehashing or regurgitating absolutes (that aren't absolutes) - that equates to giving in.
That is exhausting from the other side of the coin - and on a site where there has always been an unwritten sense of respect for anyone that goes out of their way to post - it is the equivalent to a red rag to a bull. So on that note...

I understand I might overstate my point sometimes, I apologise for that. I don't mean any harm by it. Like John83 said, put me on ignore if I'm annoying you but don't stop posting or start throwing insults. It's a discussion forum on a topic we all love. Enjoy it.

... That's a comment that you can't just write and have it accepted - you need to demonstrate it.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

This forum has been absolutely brilliant. For years. In 20 years, there's been all sorts. Fellas who were mods here that the oldies loved, who've passed away. Its actually more than an Internet discussion forum. This is going to be overstated, exaggerated whatever you'll have yourself, but all the good work that YBIG have done on the supporting side has in it's genesis, posters who posted here, made friends from this forum and went away and took it into real life. That is more than a discussion forum. And in a society (ireland) where so many arseholes haven't a clue because they are so obsessed by supporting Liverpool or United without actually contributing to football, the discussion and quality of that discussion here is valued because of the experiences of the posters.



I'll take this one Cotton. That was me.
I've been posting 20 years here. I love(d) foot. I think about previous and current posters (and i Don't put myself in that category) who you'd be delighted to see their insights on screen and think about how much absolute f'cking garbage (nor this one to be fair) gets posted on an almost consistent basis.
On the "your mum" angle. I engaged what I consider to be Wum posting with wummery comments. I don't put people on ignore and rarely report posts, but have felt more likely to doing that than ever before. Because there is no debate with a cohort of people here. There is drudgery. absolute and pure drudgery. No debate, no discussion, no consideration of the other opinion or any assuage of one's own opinion - absolute fanaticism. And that's why "the anti-Kenny" (as you call them) posters are infuriating, as it is reminiscent of the extremism that we see in the media, politics, society: whereby if you appear to concede ground in anyway - even if that just means rehashing or regurgitating absolutes (that aren't absolutes) - that equates to giving in.
That is exhausting from the other side of the coin - and on a site where there has always been an unwritten sense of respect for anyone that goes out of their way to post - it is the equivalent to a red rag to a bull. So on that note...



... That's a comment that you can't just write and have it accepted - you need to demonstrate it.

The lack of self awareness from this post is staggering. The fanaticism as you call it comes from the Kennyites and this forum is largely populated by them, even if some are coy about it. I'm able to admit that I overstep the mark on occasion but the extremism comes from those who are Stephen Kenny zealots. It's like a cult. Then you make a holier than thou post like the above when your posts on this topic have been embarrassing.

Some posters on this site have threatened to leave because they don't want to hear it. Others are clearly reporting posts and annoying the mods constantly to put an end to it. Already it looks like 1 poster has been banned. That's crazy stuff. Discussion forums are meant to be about differing opinions and sharing them but if it's easier, then go ahead and ban any negative discussion on Kenny's reign and posters who don't think it's been a great last 3 years. It'll make it easier to moderate anyway and will probably make for a happier forum. I don't mind. This post will probably be deleted but I'll post it anyway.

[NeverFeltBetter]

If negative comments on Stephen Kenny got you banned there would be no-one here. I'd be gone 10 times over.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

If negative comments on Stephen Kenny got you banned there would be no-one here. I'd be gone 10 times over.

Well the person who looks like got banned seems to think it's related. I'm not sure but the reported posts and all the complaints are about 'anti Kenny' comments. They're not exactly welcomed on this board you have to say.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I don't. I've never felt unwelcome to air those opinions, and have.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I don't. I've never felt unwelcome to air those opinions, and have.

That's great but the comments on this thread alone is telling another story about how welcome 'anti Kenny' comments are.

[passinginterest]

It's been said before but the majority of posters here have shown the ability to change their opinions, to see the grey areas and to not take completely polarised and intransigent positions.

There was undoubtedly huge support for Kenny here initially. That support has gone up and down, many posters have crossed to the Kenny out side, most have at least softened their support and would have been understanding if a bit disappointed had he been replaced. For most, I think the final deciding factor is do the players still seem to support the manager, and for the moment that's still yes. There was a suggestion maybe after the Azerbaijan game that some doubts were there, but it feels like the recent camp has put those to bed.

What the polarising Kenny out posters seem unable to accept is that there are grey areas. The squad is in transition. There is a lack of truly top class prospects. There is a generation gap where no players came though so we have 30ish lads and then early 20s and teens with little or nothing in between. The style of play is also in transition, football has changed and we're probably 10 years behind a lot of peers. The generation gap confounds this because the players coming through have been developed playing modern football. Yes it impacted everyone, but there was also a pandemic and incidents like the seats on the plane fiasco hit us hard.

Foot.ie has always been a moderate site, with few extremes and open debates with plenty of room for grey areas. O'Neill and Trapp both got plenty of criticism but also plenty of support and this was one of the last places where people would definitively turn on them. It's the same with Kenny, but there just seems to be an element who refuse to engage with good will or acknowledge any kind of compromise. That just makes debate impossible. I've never blocked a poster, I love to read diverse opinions, but I also like to see people develop positions, take on constructive points and evolve. Where there's no evidence of that it just becomes frustrating, annoying and impossible to engage with.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought we established a few weeks ago that there are no “Kennyites”. There are those who are dead set against him (which is a perfectly valid opinion) and those whose views evolve as the situation evolves. Among the latter are people who’d like him to succeed because they think his ideas are roughly the right ideas.

It’s the dishonest polarisation and victimhood that gets on my wick.

[Stuttgart88]

It's been said before but the majority of posters here have shown the ability to change their opinions, to see the grey areas and to not take completely polarised and intransigent positions.

There was undoubtedly huge support for Kenny here initially. That support has gone up and down, many posters have crossed to the Kenny out side, most have at least softened their support and would have been understanding if a bit disappointed had he been replaced. For most, I think the final deciding factor is do the players still seem to support the manager, and for the moment that's still yes. There was a suggestion maybe after the Azerbaijan game that some doubts were there, but it feels like the recent camp has put those to bed.

What the polarising Kenny out posters seem unable to accept is that there are grey areas. The squad is in transition. There is a lack of truly top class prospects. There is a generation gap where no players came though so we have 30ish lads and then early 20s and teens with little or nothing in between. The style of play is also in transition, football has changed and we're probably 10 years behind a lot of peers. The generation gap confounds this because the players coming through have been developed playing modern football. Yes it impacted everyone, but there was also a pandemic and incidents like the seats on the plane fiasco hit us hard.

Foot.ie has always been a moderate site, with few extremes and open debates with plenty of room for grey areas. O'Neill and Trapp both got plenty of criticism but also plenty of support and this was one of the last places where people would definitively turn on them. It's the same with Kenny, but there just seems to be an element who refuse to engage with good will or acknowledge any kind of compromise. That just makes debate impossible. I've never blocked a poster, I love to read diverse opinions, but I also like to see people develop positions, take on constructive points and evolve. Where there's no evidence of that it just becomes frustrating, annoying and impossible to engage with.

Probably the definitive post on the current state of affairs here. Well said.

[Stuttgart88]

Well the person who looks like got banned seems to think it's related. I'm not sure but the reported posts and all the complaints are about 'anti Kenny' comments. They're not exactly welcomed on this board you have to say.

The person who got banned thrives on polarisation and misrepresenting others' views. When called on it in the past - presented with clear and obvious evidence - he just disappeared rather than admit he had misrepresented an opinion just to take a dig. SkStu said it well above, his contrarian opinions are perfectly fine, but his dishonest, antagonistic and divisive attitude isn't. I know him personally (many of us do) and he engages in discussion normally, it's only in an anonymous setting (his user name isn't his real name in case you didn't know) that he acts like he does. Draw your own conclusions.

[tetsujin1979]

To clarify Nobody has been banned. Two accounts are currently suspended.
There's been slightly more posts reported than normal, but there's not been a massive spike in numbers

[Eirambler]

I thought we established a few weeks ago that there are no “Kennyites”. There are those who are dead set against him (which is a perfectly valid opinion) and those whose views evolve as the situation evolves. Among the latter are people who’d like him to succeed because they think his ideas are roughly the right ideas.

Those would be the Kennyites in fairness. The ones that want him to succeed because, fair enough, they like his ideas, but their continued support comes in spite of a fairly substantial body of evidence at this point to suggest that he unfortunately isn't capable of taking us where we need to go (i.e. to major tournaments finals).

[Razors left peg]

Again with the Kennyites shyte. Did we have O'Neillies, Trappatoniers, Charltonites? It's like Twitter now where Donald Trump has nicknames for everyone and opinions can never change on anything.

Grow up with the nick name crap