In fairness, it goes both ways. No? I think some of the comments directed towards those who aren't Kenny backers have been quite poor. But we all care about what happens with Ireland. That's the route of it. I just think we'll all be friends again when Kenny goes so we should all support that.Originally Posted by SkStu
Wild…
Non-answer if ever I saw one
He was positive and light until it all fell to pieces. He then threw the players under the bus. He said that we shouldn't expect to compete with Serbia and Portugal. As if we should just accept that our players are at the level of the minnows.
They do, and brilliant result from thenThat's true but my reasoning is sound and logical.I just think that we're underestimating ourselves. Look at Scotland tonight, are we much worse than them? They have something to actually celebrate.
The other reality is, Scotland are currently better than us, ranked higher, and will be playing in Spains Path in the next NL
Spain are not as good as France..
I'd put us 2-3 yrs behind Scotland
Fairy nuff - I was searching for "swear" and couldn't find anything so I couldn't see where you were getting that from!
Also Spain seemed to put out an experimental team tonight, with six changes. (That's if we're allowed to suggest the opposition team had any sort of impact on a great home performance of course...)
Great win for the Scots though.
Spain made 8 changes from the weekend and I think I heard that they made 16 squad changes from the World Cup. Scotland had two goals from a Man United midfielder with assists from a Liverpool full back and an Arsenal full back, all players with tons of European club football experience. Yet I think there were several here who came down on us like a ton of bricks for losing to Scotland in Glasgow when it was a close enough run thing.
i'd put us a couple of years behind Scotland too, and Wales - who barely beat Latvia. I think Scotland winning their League C group helped their development. We're too proud to even consider League C. I think we're better than that now but it mightn't have been any harm to take our medicine and learn how to win regularly.
Vinny Perth's take on it https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023...ber-six-issue/
Sometimes I get the feeling he's upset he isn't Kenny's right hand man but he makes valid points above nothing really we haven't pointed out on here if maybe a little more negative to Cullen - which is probably fair enough
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
It was actually changing their manager not long after that League C campaign that got things going for them. They were very poor in that group under McLeish and were lucky to win. I'd absolutely love to have Clarke, or someone of his calibre, as Ireland manager.
Haven't commented on this but thought it was the perfect team selection. I was critical cause I assumed he was playing Ogbene centrally like he did in November but actually it was perfect. Ogbene playing there negated the fears around Mbappe tearing Coleman apart and from minute one that was apparent. A friend of mine who works for a Bundesliga club sent me a text about Ogbene after the game. It was very much him at his best.
Real collective performance, Bazunu was excellent. His reactions and his speed are just phenomenal. Really impressive display.
Coleman - a few stray passes down the line aside, he was superb. Great composure time and time again. Really strong display.
Collins - defensively he made a key contributions, the clearance after the Kolo-Muani backheel. He also carried the ball superbly late on. And he deserved a goal from his header.
Egan - very good display, no complaints
O'Shea - think he's a better footballer than people often give him credit for. had a good night again. slight shame that the chance from the corner in the first half came to him - you'd hope if it were Ferguson or Doherty or Knight, they would have been able to get a shot off before being closed down. Possibly could have done better for the goal - no idea why he turns - maybe it happened too quickly or maybe he was worried it would hit his arm. But he blocked Bazunu and probably would have been easier to block the ball than get out of the way of it. Still, overall was a great performance.
Doherty was excellent - that run in the first half where we won a corner, it was a thing of absolute beauty. Really fine display. Shame we didn't do more from corners - I think the big issue was that the french are much taller than us. 9 of the french starting 11 are over 6 foot, whereas just 6 of the irish eleven are. Overall, Average height of the French starting team was between 6’1 and 6’2 and the irish team average was between 5’11 and 6’0. It's a pretty significant difference all things considered. You hang a decent ball up and it's headed away - meanwhile, against Spain, you do the same and you're towering over them.
Cullen - thought he had a good game overall. Wouldn't be too harsh about the goal. Knight just waits for it, even worse he actually backtracks away from the ball, giving Pavard more time to step on - he could easily adjust his body and block off Pavard if he's aware of his surroundings. Obviously Cullen could have played Doherty in or could have delayed till Knight was pressed further before playing a more progressive pass beyond Pavard into the space for Knight - but both teams make those type of mistakes frequently enough throughout the game, it just rarely gets punished.
Molumby - thought he was superb. Wanted it more than anyone else on the pitch. Same was true at home against Scotland. Off the ball, he was reminiscent of Roy Keane. I do think there's a better footballer underneath it all than he's shown - and this was a decent step in the right direction. At 21s, he had the confidence to be a greater creative influence than he has been as a senior international - nonetheless himself and Ogbene were probably both deserving of MOTM.
Knight - worked his socks off. I do think he needs to leave League 1 ASAP. He was the one player who was a little off the pace at times. I can think of a handful of occasions where he was caught in possession needlessly. It all just felt a little fast for him. I've mentioned the goal above. Also when Ogbene played him in, he should have done better - his first touch let him down, then he tried to take it out of his feet with the second touch which probably wasn't enough. then he tried to shoot. he had different options - a better first touch and he shoots, alternatively he could take it past a defender. i thought Ogbene did well picking him out and expected more from it. not to be too critical, he won some great freekicks and he worked and worked and worked - i just feel he's gotten used to having ample time down at league 1. i also thought he possibly needed to be subbed 5-10 mins before it happened.
Ogbene - thought he was really good as well. defensively excellent - attacking he was our main outlet. did well in the air and really attacked the space.
Ferguson - the only issue with the shape was Evan was isolated. he had a few great moments, playing Knight and Ogbene in with lovely touches. Outmuscling Konate and Upamecano, he was unlucky to have a few freekicks given against him which were harsh. With the relentless running, he was knackered by 30 mins. There was a chance which had it fallen to Obafemi or Idah, they possibly would have gotten on the end of. Still good stuff overall. Good good player. Those who said he shouldn't have been subbed were wrong. The reality is, he stopped winning the 60-40 balls just cause he was knackered and then we didn't have an outlet. when idah came on, suddenly we were first to breaking balls, and able to keep possession and exert some pressure.
Thought all the subs were good. Browne had a few hairy moments in possession but he could have scored 3 and Molumby came so close to flicking on his shot. McClean came on a did well for a tiring Doherty. Mikey Johnston for Knight was a good change. We needed someone to carry the ball and relieve pressure and he did it twice early on. Didn't really get much service after that but not his fault. Finally obafemi with 5 mins to go was good. It was a potential risk, losing our space but you can't leave a player of that ability on the bench when you're chasing the game.
Heartbreaking not to get a point but a really positive performance despite the defeat.
Last edited by elatedscum; 28/03/2023 at 10:09 PM. Reason: got rid of some weird font code
There is clearly no shame in losing by the odd goal to a team of France's obvious pedigree, but a loss it was, and our first home European Championship defeat since the 2-3 reverse to Russia in 2010.
I wasn't in attendance, but the atmosphere seemed incredible, and clearly played a huge part in inspiring a terrifically committed and tireless effort from the players, who really ran themselves into the ground for the cause.
The goal was particularly disappointing because, after working so hard to deny the French time and space, it completely was self-inflicted, coming directly from a mistake by one of our most reliable performers.
How many goals have we conceded under Kenny through turning over possession in our defensive third? It happened against Latvia and it happened again last night.
Playing a square ball on the edge of your area is of course suicidal, but the pass was well telegraphed, and I thought Knight could perhaps have shown greater anticipation and awareness of the situation and come shorter. And, for me, he allowed himself to be shrugged aside rather too easily by Pavard, who, to his credit, read the situation perfectly and unleashed a terrific strike. Though I have to wonder; if Dara O'Shea had shown full commitment in attempting to block the shot rather than turning his back on it, could he have, at the very least, got something on it and deflected it off target? It did appear to brush him on its way in.
Once again we concede from a long range strike, our third such concession in two matches and our tenth in 24 games during Kenny's reign. We never seem to learn.
There was nothing particularly sophisticated in the way we set up; 5-4-1, a deep defensive line to take account of the threat posed by the pace of Mbappe and often all eleven players behind the ball. It worked, insofar as it afforded the French few opportunities, but it meant there was no real out-ball when we occasionally did get hold of the ball in deep positions, with Ferguson almost always completely isolated. It was a thankless task, but boy, did he put in a shift.
France showed their class at times, and you can't help feeling that they probably had an additional gear or two in reserve to click in to if the occasion had really demanded it, but, helped by that vociferous crowd, we had them a little bit rattled in periods, and that's to our credit.
Molumby was little short of heroic, and it's evident how regular first team football at a good level has improved him. Similar with Ogbene, who, after a couple of iffy early touches, really grew into the game and ended up utterly justifying his selection. He looked far more comfortable in a wide role, offering excellent protection in front of Coleman as well as posing our greatest attacking threat. He was outstanding.
Knight ran and ran, but looks like a player who needs to challenge himself at a higher level in order to improve.
One of the few negatives was the set-pieces - and this has been a feature of Kenny's time in charge - with the pre-planned moves failing and the quality of the ball in often poor. Collins was finally able to show the threat he poses in the air in such situations, but very late in the game.
We've seen big performances before under Kenny against Scotland and away to Portugal, where we've raised our game and performed extremely creditably and leading to talk of it being a potential watershed moment, only for us to put in an another inept performance in the subsequent game. Is this just another false dawn? Greece in Athens will be the real test.
See this is the nonsense that gets spouted that I just can't ignore.
Both Steve Clarke and Stephen Kenny took over their respective countries less than a year apart. Ireland were ahead of Scotland using the world rankings, an unbiased metric, when Kenny took over. You're trying to use where the teams currently stand to suggest that Kenny is doing ok with what he has but in reality we're behind Scotland in the rankings and 2-3 years behind them because of Kenny. He's dragged us backwards while Clarke has improved Scotland. They're playing Spain's path in the next Nations League because they topped our group while we were struggling with Armenia.
The difference between both countries is mainly down to one country having a competent manager and one country not having that.
Things can change quickly when you have a manager who knows what he's doing. Scotland have a couple of very good players but a lot that would be about the same or lower than our squad. It's not perfect under Clarke but if we got him and they got Kenny, you would see the fortunes change in opposite directions for both.
Re this Booms: “I'd put us 2-3 yrs behind Scotland“
Wasn’t me that said it but Scotland’s squad had 6 players born in 1998 or later. Our squad last night had 13 players (that doesn’t include Parrott).
The reason I chose 1998 as the cutoff is that those were the players eligible for Kenny’s u21s.
So considering our squad is much much younger than Scotland’s, it makes sense that we’re a few years behind Scotland in our development.
Did he notice him playing ? Perhaps next time he might go top see Ireland.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
I have to ask, is this a joke? So if we had O'Leary, Duffy, Manning, Brady, O'Dowda, Hourihane, Robinson, Keane, Hogan in our squad instead of those born in 98 or later, we'd be further on in our development than Scotland? The lengthy list of flimsy excuses keeps growing. Players under your 98 cut off are getting selected because they are some of our best young players in a generation. Didn't Argentina win the World Cup with about 11 or 12 players under the 98 cut off?
It's not the players fault we're behind Scotland.
This. This bears repeating. Again. FFS.
It's not 100% about the manager's competence. It's not 100% about the quality of the players. Good squads can be held back by poor management, and competent management can fail because of a limited playing pool. Scottish fans have been grumbling about Clarke for a good while now, their media was outraged when they lost 3-0 last year to a '"who's that?" of international football', as they put it.
The poor results we've had in the last three years come down to a mixture of limited senior players, a missing generation, young players not being 'ready to go', and okay, a certain level of indecisive, inconsistent management, particularly in 2020 and early 2021. The main issue has always been the incompetence of the FAI, and the wasted years under Delaney, leaving us with a massive, unprecedented void in our player development - in addition to the well of 2nd/3rd generation English-born talent, which always compensated for our poor youth development, suddenly running dry. A scenario that resulted in lads like Ronan Curtis and Daryl Horgan winning caps under three different managers, in the sheer desperation to unearth international-standard midfielders and attackers.
The better results and performances have eventually come about because of big performances from seniors like Coleman, Egan and Doherty, the young lads eventually coming good to replace the dead wood in the squad, and being allowed to play football within an encouraging, positive setup. There has been some good management involved in facilitating this.
Fans singing 'Only One Stephen Kenny' at the matches is a bit cringeworthy at times, but it's important that the FAI hears the voices of positivity about what he's trying to do, if only so they get the clear message from the fans that, whenever the need is there to remove him, a return to hoofball will not be acceptable or tolerated. Fans demanding 'results at all cost' is only going to result in the FAI going cap-in-hand to Denis O'Brien so we can get someone like Big Sam.
Last edited by Supreme feet; 29/03/2023 at 8:22 AM.
Thought we got the best out of what’s available to us on the night. Sure, there were incidents in the game where we could do better but on the whole felt we got the tactics, formation, personnel and substitutions right.
On the goal, stating the obvious here, but we are vulnerable if we lose the ball on transition from defence to attack – when we get the ball and pan out into space to receive it. Think a good chunk of the long shots conceded stem from this transition – i.e. the opposition taking advantage of the opened space and shooting before we get set back into a compact defensive shape. Not sure who is to blame for the goal; should Cullen be playing a short flat pass in that position? Knight’s body language suggests he didn’t want the ball (tired?)
If being critical maybe we gave France too much respect in the threat they represented (understandable as it was effectively PL versus Championship – see the recent Man City Burnley result for the quality gap this represents). However, some of our individual decision making perhaps was too coloured by this, thinking Collins breaking out and overlapping into space in the first half but not played through, that failure of Ogbene to play the pass into Ferguson, and a major missed opportunity mid second half with Ferguson splitting their CBs and pointing for the ball through but not getting it (Cullen or Knight was on the ball).
And on Knight, yes he needs to move and play at a higher level. He worked hard on the night but felt he was struggling with the intensity early doors – which is both mental and physical. Not challenging the decision to play him as Kenny clearly had a thought out gameplan but perhaps complementing Smallbone’s guile alongside Molumby disruption would have given us a better foothold in midfield and the ability to play those balls in when the opportunities arose.
If the Scottish fans and media are questioning whether their manager should be sacked with a record of played 43, won 21, drew 10 and lost 12, then it's not unreasonable for people to be calling for the Ireland managers future to be questioned with a far worse record. Scottish fans aren't making flimsy excuses for Clarke, blaming the players, covid, the weather etc.
It's possible to have those wasted development years by the FAI and also to have a very poor senior manager. Kenny was John Delaney's last appointment. It's turned out just as bad as most of his decisions. Removing Kenny will remove one of the last ties to the Delaney era. And it doesn't mean we have to hire a hoofball manager. Amazingly, Stephen Kenny is not the only manager in the World who wants to play passing football. And some of them are actually good at their job.
What changed for the last few minutes leading to us getting our only shots on target? It wasn't "dinosaur" tactics or lobbing it into the box was it?? Shame on Kenny.
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