Republic of Ireland V Latvia - Wednesday, 22nd March 2023 - Friendly

[Kingdom]

Some have given up before a ball has been kicked in this group. Can you remember a group in the last 40 years where that's happened?

And I can look back but I don't think I dismissed any of elatedscum's posts because of elo rankings. I just don't really care about them but each to their own.

Quoting you, but equally applicable to Posher, was the absolute and consistent goading of a proportion of posters on this forum for having the temerity to get excited about the calibre of players coming through the ranks. That giddiness was not rooted in planking collective arses in armchairs and watching match of the day or Super Sunday, it was from being involved in day-to-day youth football over a number of years, watching kids over number of years, attending coaching courses over a number of years and recognising huge strides in development, which includes in the main having squads that are far more balanced in terms of abilities, geographical and demographical representation. Gaps are lessening all the time. to the point where we are consistent performers at 17s and 19s.

The absolute glee that some took here at repeatedly referring to some posters 'ridiculous' or 'giddy' expectations - which was a premise to bash support for the manager, insofar as the only reason the manager was appointed was because of the 21yr olds at his disposal, now that they are sh*te, he can f*ck right off/ - was vulgar. Because in the main, the only thing those people have contributed to Irish football over the years is that we consume an incredible amount of alcohol.

It is just shifting the goalposts for people to be whinging about posters - me included - getting super excited about some legitimately brilliant talents, and then fast forward a few years telling us realistic expectations are a nonsense, when the giddiness that those original people were bashed for, turn out to be unattainable.

It cannot be both ways.

[Kingdom]

Worth mentioning that we've only won 2 qualifying games out of 19 against first/second seeds at home in those 18 years (Germany, Bosnia 2015).

EC 88 - 0/3
WC 90 - 2/2 (or 1/1 more precisely)
EC 92 - 0/1
WC 94 - 0/2 (or 0/1 more precisely)
EC 96 - 1/1
WC 98 - 0/1
EC 00 - 2/2
WC 02 - 1/2
EC 04 - 0/2 (or 0/1 more precisely)
WC 06 - 0/2 (or 0/1 more precisely)
EC 08 - 1/3
WC 10 - 0/2
EC 12 - 0/2
WC 14 - 0/3
EC 16 - 1/2 (or 1/3 if we include Scotland)
WC 18 - 0/3
EC 20 - 0/3
WC 22 - 0/2


If I could include that Patrick Bateman gif to demonstrate just how confident we should all be, I would do so, right here.

[pineapple stu]

I suppose there’s a value to a degree of continuity and there are players who would benefit from minutes in that system (I’m thinking Evan Ferguson in particular but also guys like O’Dowda, Smallbone etc.).

4-3-3 is more suited to beating sides who’s primary aim is not to lose, mostly because you often have a centre half who is totally redundant. The last 30 mins against Lithuania was progress on that front when Manning moved in there because he provided incisive creativity with his passes from that position which is almost always lacking.

It certainly doesn’t make any sense to start 4-3-3 and transition to 5-3-2 if it doesn’t work.

Yeah, that all sounds reasonable - though I remember the comment after the 0-0 draw with Liechtenstein, "If Plan A fails, resort to Plan A". So while I get the point about continuity, equally being a bit flexible has to be an option for consideration too? We've a longer than usual time between games this break and can surely use that time to prep for France a different way to Latvia. I'd really like to get past this tendency to struggle against the minnows. It's happening far too often.

Yup. I mean we did concede 2 against Armenia in the last competitive window. If he could turn those goals into saves - maybe he can give us all pause for thought, as unlikely as that is.

In his last start for Liverpool, against Wolves, I thought he was really excellent

Bazunu played that 3-2 win, not Kelleher? (Just it reads from your post like you're talking about Kelleher in that game)

Looking at some of the opinion expressed here and elsewhere I find myself slightly disquieted by the idea being expounded - no more strongly than by Kenny supporters themselves - of our being completely no-hopers and our qualification bid effectively being over before it's even begun.

I've never known so much negativity and such tempered expectations prior to a new qualification campaign.

I'd echo Stutts' call to point out the Kenny supporters here btw. I think it's a vastly over-used term; most of the posters I read here are trying to judge the team on its own merits and aren't particularly gone on the manager either way. You have the extremes at either end (mypost and BOOMers) who do tend to drag the debate down with them, but arguing against them shouldn't be conflated with being an ardent Kenny supporter/opponent.

The pessimism is because (a) we have two of the top teams in the world in our group; that's a bad draw, (b) we still have a poor squad with at best a couple of poor Premier League players (maybe Ferguson aside) and nobody close to CL level (you could argue Doherty, but he's a fringe player at best for Spurs and Atletico), which is a step up again and is where a good chunk of the French/Dutch players are at and (c) we have had a lot of poor results lately even against teams on our own level, so the idea of getting six points even from Greece seems odds against at the moment. You could add in unusual squad selections, though the likes of McGrath and Johnstone (or bringing in Szmodmics or Manning or whoever) aren't likely to change the picture massively, as Craft has pointed out earlier. But we have developing (but not yet developed) goalkeepers, ageing wingbacks, a midfield in the habit of going missing too easily and far too many goal-shy forwards. You've got to be a bit realistic about our chances against Holland and France.

I would hope for a decent win and performance against Latvia and a fighting performance against France, but I can't see us getting anything out of that one. If Latvia turns out like Malta or worse, or if we get thumped by France, then I would say that should be the end of Kenny (like the 6-1 against Germany was the end of Trap). And let's be honest, either of those results are possible too.

[pineapple stu]

Idah confirmed as ruled out by Wagner. Curious if a replacement will be called up or if Keane was put in there, essentially knowing that Idah was almost certainly ruled out.

Indo today reporting that he's joining up with the squad in a bid to make the France game at least.

[Kingdom]

1. Bazunu/Kelleher
2. Doherty
3. O’Shea
4. Egan
5. Collins
6. McClean
7. Cullen
8. Molumby
9. Knight/Smallbone/Sykes/McGrath
10. Ferguson
11. Obafemi/Parrott

I think I’d be confident in knowing for sure 8 of my starting 11 against France, probably even 9.

I was texting mates the other day and suggested 8 are certs.

I'm wondering something vs France. If we take that they'll have some variation of Mbappé, Griezemann, Thuram and Coman, possibly all 4, but unlikely...would Andy Omabamidele be the best bet to 'mark' Mbappé in terms of a foot-race? OShea is no slouch, but Nathan Collins absolutely has a weakness on the turn - I'd see it as possibly his only serious weakness - and that Doherty in front of him takes the edge away from Doc's play, which is in that inside right channel in the defensive half and the outside right channel in the offensive half.
I'm not suggesting we drop Collins, Egan probably won't because he's captain and a very good threat in the opposition box, but perhaps we might see Omabamidele, Collins, Egan as the three (in that order)?

X??Doherty
O’Shea
Egan
Collins
McClean
?Cullen
Molumby
X??Ferguson ?X

Against Latvia, I’d plan to play two different formations. I’d play the first half in a 5-3-2 and the second half in a 4-3-3. What we’ve found is that against weaker sides - once we score, 5-3-2 is successful but when teams sit deep, and we don’t score early, we can struggle to break them down. So I think going forward, being able to play both systems would help avoid most of those calamity results or near misses.

Totally agree.

GK: I’d start with Kelleher in goal for the Latvia game. I’d very likely start Bazunu for the France game but I’d make that call after the Latvia game was over. If for some reason, Kelleher managed to perform so well that it changed my opinion. Don’t see it as being likely but no harm in having the info

I don't see a huge amount of difference between either keeper in a pure defensive capacity - I think that i'm more nervous with Gav under crosses, but that may not have any basis in fact. But I absolutely believe that Caoimhin is the better footballing goalkeeper. What might sound like illogical ways of picking a side, while I'd fully accept the jersey is Gav's to lose, I'd pick Kelleher vs Latvia, and if showed that he's not rusty, I'd nearly pick him vs France. (but that's biased as I do like him).

RWB: Doherty - he probably needs minutes against Latvia, but not too many. He struggles with fitness when playing 2 games in a short space of time, no point on burning him out. So I’d play him and switch him for Coleman after 55 mins. I don’t fancy Mbappe taking on Coleman and the pace differential, so I think Doc is the only option. I’d play 5 at the back and try have your wing back and your right sided centre half (O’Shea) double up on Mbappe. Same on the other side with Coman or Kolo Muani or whoever will be playing right wing. Then just hope that the space that their fullbacks get at a result doesn’t cost us too much. But generally the real danger France have comes from the 3 behind Giroud - the two wingers and Griezmann.

RCB - O’Shea - I’d start Omobamidele against Latvia to give him minutes and to see how he looks after the injury but I think O’Shea is the starter for the France game. Coleman is playing really well of late and is an option but I do think he’s a better right back than a right wing back or right centre half.

CB - Egan - will probably captain the side. I’d start him against Latvia and take him off after 45 and bring on a winger and move to a back 4. He doesn’t need the minutes particularly.

LCB - Collins - get him 90 mins against Latvia and again against France.

I think we're wasting time putting Nathan anywhere else but the stopper/central cog of the three. Egan is quite comfortable as the lcb and given that we're weak at lwb, his organistion and reading would be preferable there. I've been as big a supporter of John Egan if not more than anyone here for a very long time, but I think the sooner we get the three kids bedded in together the better. Not suggesting that vs France, but I'd like to see it become the staple by the end of the campaign, fitness willing.

LWB - McClean. I haven’t seen a huge amount of O’Dowda at LWB but I’d trust McClean a bit more defensively and that he’d be a bit more fight about him which we’ll probably need against the french. I’d start O’Dowda against the Latvians and bring on McClean at the same time as Coleman, in part because McClean is probably better at left back.

I don't like him and I don't trust him. If we had a willing replacement at RWB, I'd pick Doc here. We don't so I'd pick ODowda, purely because he's not McClean.

RCM - Molumby would start for me against France. It’s between him and Hendrick and I’d value the extra bite, energy and athleticism he provides. Hendrick probably to come on when Molumby is at risk of getting a second yellow.

??CM - Cullen. I’d wrap him in cotton wool for the Latvia game given his current workload and his lack of a viable replacement. I’d start Smallbone along with Hendrick in the Latvia game.

I actually don't think this is a decision anymore, I think Jayson and Josh are the two recognised starting midfielders for this campaign, regardless of the circumstances. I've a hard-on for Molumby, I don't hide it.

LCM - the more attacking midfielder - i’d most likely start Knight for the france game - and probably Sykes for the Latvia game - but i’m undecided. All of Knight, Smallbone, Sykes, McGrath and Browne offer different qualities. Browne would be the most conservative (aeriel ability, aggression and goal threat) and probably the only one I’d be against. McGrath has been widely slated here but his performances for Ireland have been good. And he has qualities as a composed carrier of the ball, linking midfield and attack, with more vision than any of the other midfielders (a low bar).

Was thinking about McGrath. Club career in the ****ter, but hasn't been poor for ireland and was very good when we were good in portugal. I'd pick Knight here though. And I like Alan Browne. He has a f*ck up in him, but he gets into good positions and like it or not, he's our only scoring midfielder who arguably should have had more.
But it has to be Knight. He's just too...everything! to not start him - when our likely success will be from placing them under serious pressure on and off the ball - would be a mistake.

ST - Ferguson starts for me. I’d give him 70 minutes against Latvia (before being replaced by Obafemi) and I’d start him again against France. Hard to know who is his best partner. I liked the Obafemi-Parrott pairing, I felt they had great understanding - but you can’t ignore Evan. Only problem is that you’ve got to create a partnership on the fly. ??ST - I’d start Parrott against Latvia and give him 45 minutes before bringing on Ogbene for the 4-3-3 switch. So basically game begins with a Ferguson-Parrott pair, before turning into a Ogbene-Ferguson-Johnston front 3 with Obafemi replacing Ferguson for the last 20. Obafemi needs minutes but I’d be more afraid of him picking up a knock against Latvia. He has a terrible knack of getting injured on the first game of an international window. I kinda fear Kenny might see Keane as the ideal partner for Ferguson. I hope not - but I can imagine Keane sitting deeper is something that might appeal to Kenny, the number 10 to Ferguson’s no. 9. Anyway, i’d make a call between Parrott and Obafemi after the Latvia game, seeing how they both looked.

Ferguson absolutely. And the partnership is a vital point that cannot be dismissed. I was stunned by how isolated Ev was for the 21s the couple of times I saw him, to the point where I'd nearly consider him playing slightly withdrawn and leave the partner as the runner. He needs ball into feet, and while I think this would be Troy's best position, I don't think Parrot can start as much as I like him, and with Idah out, it's a straight choice between Cheodzie or Obafemi. I'd be inclined to go with Obafemi, but wouldn't be disappointed with Ogbene either. I think with Ogbene on one side and Knight on the other, it probably keeps france a bit more honest.

So it’d end up with:

- Latvia First half:

Kelleher

Doherty
Omobamidele
Egan
Collins
O’Dowda

Hendrick
Smallbone
Sykes or McGrath

Parrott
Ferguson

Latvia Second half:

Kelleher

Coleman (after 55)
Omobamidele
Collins
McClean (after 55)

Same midfield with Knight coming in after 70

Ogbene
Ferguson (replaced by Obafemi after 70
Johnston


France:

Bazunu/Kelleher

Doherty
O’Shea
Egan
Collins
McClean

Cullen
Molumby
Knight/Sykes/McGrath

Parrott/Obafemi
Ferguson

Thanks be to god some good posts to consider, thanks ES.

[ifk101]

Obafemi and Ferguson to start against France but would use the Latvia game to test that partnership. Wonder if Obafemi and Ferguson might be a bit too similar in the narrow central positionings they both like to take. Not sure who will play alongside Cullen and Molumby in midfield, thinking Kenny will favour Browne but pity Smallbone hasn't been tested before now. But otherwise think the team to play France will be:
Bazunu;
Doherty, Collins, Egan, O’Shea, McClean;
Cullen, Molumby, ?;
Ferguson, Obafemi.

[Jd2793]

id go with smallbone but i think he'll pick knight.

[Kingdom]

appreciating that there is some time between the two games, I'd still like to see us with a more proactive side vs Latvia.

I'd like to see a 4231 vs Latvia, if possible.
Kelleher
Coleman Omabamidele OShea ODowda
------------------ Hendrick
------------------ Browne -----------
Ogbene ----- Parrot ----- Smallbone
------------------ Obafemi,

Give Doc, Ferguson, Sykes etc a run at the 60 min mark.

Deal with France later in the week.

[Razors left peg]

appreciating that there is some time between the two games, I'd still like to see us with a more proactive side vs Latvia.

I'd like to see a 4231 vs Latvia, if possible.
Kelleher
Coleman Omabamidele OShea ODowda
------------------ Hendrick
------------------ Browne -----------
Ogbene ----- Parrot ----- Smallbone
------------------ Obafemi,

Give Doc, Ferguson, Sykes etc a run at the 60 min mark.

Deal with France later in the week.

I just threw up in my mouth a bit when I seen the midfield of Hendrick and Browne. I know Kenny should only care about winning the France game and the Latvia game can be used to change things around, but hes in a position where he has to win and be positive. If he picked that midfield I think there would be uproar and there could be a pretty negative atmostphere in the stadium.

I still believe we should be looking to play our France 11 for at least a half on Wednesday and then rest players in 2nd half.

[Kingdom]

If Josh Cullen can't play against France, we don't get a result.
He's that important imo.

This is where Kenny is entering no-win territory. If he picks any frontliner vs Latvia and they get injured, South Park occurs.

[Razors left peg]

If Josh Cullen can't play against France, we don't get a result.
He's that important imo.

This is where Kenny is entering no-win territory. If he picks any frontliner vs Latvia and they get injured, South Park occurs.

I dont disagree that its a fine line, but players can get injured in training too. You cant just wrap them up in cotton wool. This team hasnt played together in a while and the last couple of games were awful so I think there is a bit of getting the actually team ready to play together

[Jd2793]

just play molumby in the 6 v latvia. he doesnt have the same passing ability as cullen but latvia arent great, he should do fine. hendrick deeper is an accident waiting to happen

[Stuttgart88]

It aws always a myth that Hendrick can play deep imho. Anytime he has done well it has been attacking space in the opponent's half.

[Jd2793]

It aws always a myth that Hendrick can play deep imho. Anytime he has done well it has been attacking space in the opponent's half.

yep and he isnt the most mobile either imo always a liability when we are countered. keep him higher up the park if hes playing

[Razors left peg]

It aws always a myth that Hendrick can play deep imho. Anytime he has done well it has been attacking space in the opponent's half.

Agreed, any of his good games for Ireland over the years are when he was playing in a more attacking position.

[TonyD]

I still believe we should be looking to play our France 11 for at least a half on Wednesday and then rest players in 2nd half.

I would agree. Start the team he intends to play against France. I think mostly it picks itself. I have to say, I’ve always liked Ogbene. Great attitude, good pace, and has a goal in him. Maybe go with the three upfront, himself Ferguson and Obafemi. I also like Knight . Molumby and Cullen are definites in the middle I’d say. We are going to have to work very hard without the ball.

[Jd2793]

i dont see a purpose of going with the france team. this friendly means little in the scheme of things. he already wasted the malta game using players we know enough about in a formation that cant break teams down. bit more expansive this time around with a mix of newer caps + first team certs

CK
Doherty Collins OShea McClean
Molumby Sykes Smallbone
Ogbene Ferguson O'Dowda

Johnston for odowda on 60. Sykes has decent experience in cm even if hes mostly played rm this season. ogbene wide right to give us more of an attacking threat.

[nigel-harps1954]

--------------Bazunu--------------

Coleman-Collins-Egan-McClean

--------------Cullen--------------

-----Molumby----Smallbone-----

-Ogbene---Ferguson---Knight-


Rinse and repeat for France. Thank you for the three points and good night.

[Razors left peg]

i dont see a purpose of going with the france team. this friendly means little in the scheme of things. he already wasted the malta game using players we know enough about in a formation that cant break teams down. bit more expansive this time around with a mix of newer caps + first team certs

CK
Doherty Collins OShea McClean
Molumby Sykes Smallbone
Ogbene Ferguson O'Dowda

Johnston for odowda on 60. Sykes has decent experience in cm even if hes mostly played rm this season. ogbene wide right to give us more of an attacking threat.

O'Dowda is a full back these days, he shouldnt be even considered that far forward.

Bazunu
Doherty Collins Egan O'Shea O'Dowda
Cullen Molumby Knight
Ferguson Obafemi

Kenny has said recently that he doesnt believe in sitting back for 90 minutes and just inviting other team on, so I think he will be as proactive as possible. That would be my team for both games but changes in the 2nd half of Latvia game with a change of formation

Bazunu
Coleman Collins Omobamidele Doherty
Browne Smallbone Sykes
Ogbene Parrott Johnston

[pineapple stu]

i dont see a purpose of going with the france team.

I agree. They're two vastly different games where we'll have to be set up differently. What's the point in lining up at home against Latvia set to counter Coman and Mbappé's pace? What's to learn when, having done that, you're facing guys from Jablonec and Raków Czestochowa instead? You might want an outlet up front against France who could hold the ball up with back to goal, and allow the mid time to break - that could even be Idah, based on his performance in Portugal, but based on every other performance from him he'd be as useful as tits on a bull against Latvia.

If we have even 45 minutes of being set up defensively against Latvia at home, Kenny deserves to go.

I don't understand what the counter argument here is.