Gavin Bazunu G Standard Liege (loan from Southampton) b.2002

**ontheotherhand** · 05/01/2023, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Including from yourself above imho! I think he was totally blameless for the goal. He covered the near post which is his main job. The square ball just took him out of the picture totally.

As an Irish footy chat site of course we'll be highly subjective in our assessment of our players and I think there's more scrutiny on Bazunu because he is genuinely competing with one other strong candidate for only one available spot. Collins is one of a few CB options for three spots and I'd say there's near unanimity here that one of those should be Collins'.

Last season whenever I was looking at a Championship game I watched the goalkeepers a lot. I was trying to imagine the comments that any of the goalkeeping performances I saw would have attracted on foot.ie if the keeper in question was Kelleher or Bazunu and I was thinking we'd all be waxing lyrical. Why? Simply because generally the standard of goalkeeping in the Championship is of a very high standard and most of these guys are seasoned professionals. Try this next time you're watching the Championship: imagine the keepers at either end are one of these two and ask yourself what your impression would be. The difference (hopefully) being the ceiling that our two have is potentially higher and ours are also more in the modern goalkeeping mould than many in the Championship.

Last season I also watched Illan Meslier at Leeds and imagined the same situation i.e., if he was ours what would we be saying? He's indisputably a very talented keeper but at his worst he's let in soft goals and made unforced errors that would alarm us if he was ours and would be dissected to the nth degree here, and which would probably cost a senior goalkeeper his place in a PL team. But Leeds believe in him and I expect they'll be rewarded for doing so. In fact based on the France number 2�s uninspiring performance against Tunisia I�d say Meslier might soon be the French number one if Lloris retires.

Well said. Maybe I'm being overly critical. I just think he had no chance at reaching the cut back so would have been better off getting across to cover the shot. But I'd have to see it again to see if the ball was kicked before he dove or if he was gambling on it being reachable.....to do that would mean watching some of that game again though and I don't think I can take it....it was wretched. Paul and I agree there.

**Stuttgart88** · 05/01/2023, 2:00 PM

Wretched at both ends too. Imagine what we'd be saying if Ch� Adams was ours!

**elatedscum** · 05/01/2023, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

THe only (young/youth)person I ever saw to cut out those type of "Error Prone" mistakes was Richard Dunne and I'd put that down to application and lifestyle more than anything else. Once that was sorted his concentration and performances improved. Gary breen started his career and finished it the same way i.e. capable of a dopey lapse in concentration or just stupid mistake.

Jamie Carragher, John Terry? Both made plenty of mistakes as young defenders.

Keepers and centre halves are a whole other story but in terms of errors Manuel Neuer made plenty of mistakes in his Schalke days, especially early on, around 20-22. By 26, he was probably the best goalkeeper in the world

**paul_oshea** · 05/01/2023, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Jamie Carragher, John Terry? Both made plenty of mistakes as young defenders.

Keepers and centre halves are a whole other story but in terms of errors Manuel Neuer made plenty of mistakes in his Schalke days, especially early on, around 20-22. By 26, he was probably the best goalkeeper in the world

I should have qualified but I thought it was obvious; Irish players.

**ifk101** · 05/01/2023, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Last season I also watched Illan Meslier at Leeds and imagined the same situation i.e., if he was ours what would we be saying? He's indisputably a very talented keeper but at his worst he's let in soft goals and made unforced errors that would alarm us if he was ours and would be dissected to the nth degree here, and which would probably cost a senior goalkeeper his place in a PL team. But Leeds believe in him and I expect they'll be rewarded for doing so. In fact based on the France number 2�s uninspiring performance against Tunisia I�d say Meslier might soon be the French number one if Lloris retires.

Lloris has a mistake in him, now that you mention him. And he is one of the more decorated keepers in the game. I'd be happy if Lloris doesn't retire before we play them.

**Stuttgart88** · 05/01/2023, 2:49 PM

I'd be happier if the guy who played against Tunisia played! He looked awful. Lloris had a good World Cup overall imho, but agree he has a mistake in him.

**ontheotherhand** · 05/01/2023, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I should have qualified but I thought it was obvious; Irish players.

Does Irishness mean you can't learn from mistakes? That would explain a lot about my life.

**CraftyToePoke** · 05/01/2023, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Jamie Carragher, John Terry? Both made plenty of mistakes as young defenders.

Keepers and centre halves are a whole other story but in terms of errors Manuel Neuer made plenty of mistakes in his Schalke days, especially early on, around 20-22. By 26, he was probably the best goalkeeper in the world

John Stones, walking brain fart at Everton & well beyond. Managing to forge a career of some sort though ....
Really not sure whether they are Irish or not would come into it or why it would.

**Eirambler** · 05/01/2023, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Fingers crossed the two lads can give us as much as 63 cap, World Cup qualifying, Transfer Rumour of the Year Award recipient, error prone Gary Breen.

My honest, but probably controversial opinion on Gary Breen. If he broke through now he'd be a Championship player and he'd be lucky to get 10 caps for Ireland. He benefitted from being around at a time when we had a good team but were weak at centre back, and his legacy is enhanced by his World Cup goal and the famous chant/song about him.

**CraftyToePoke** · 05/01/2023, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by Eirambler

My honest, but probably controversial opinion on Gary Breen. If he broke through now he'd be a Championship player and he'd be lucky to get 10 caps for Ireland. He benefitted from being around at a time when we had a good team but were weak at centre back, and his legacy is enhanced by his World Cup goal and the famous chant/song about him.

Possibly, even probably, but so what ? Those squads were littered with similar examples. Would Niall Quinn's skillset make him an Arsenal / Man City player today ? Not a hope, or even a PL one. But they did what they did in green & had the careers they had.

**ontheotherhand** · 05/01/2023, 4:01 PM

If he broke through now and was a reliable Championship centre back he'd still probably be starting for Ireland. He had 163 Premier League appearances and was part of the team that actually qualified for and competed at a WC. Bazunu, Collins et al have a long way to go to reach the same heights.

**jbyrne** · 05/01/2023, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by Eirambler

My honest, but probably controversial opinion on Gary Breen. If he broke through now he'd be a Championship player and he'd be lucky to get 10 caps for Ireland. He benefitted from being around at a time when we had a good team but were weak at centre back, and his legacy is enhanced by his World Cup goal and the famous chant/song about him.

when it mattered on the world stage Breen had a very good WC 2002. started all 4 matches from memory.
not sure how our weakness at centre back at that time manifested itself. we only conceded 5 goals in 10 qualification games in a group that contained portugal and holland!

**pineapple stu** · 05/01/2023, 4:22 PM

We were steeped against Holland at home! They should have won that 3 or 4-0 if we're honest. Portugal probably should have beaten us out there too, but the Dutch game was the one we really got away with.

But yeah, Breen was quite solid at the World Cup, and other than the Dutch game I don't recall us being too ropey defensively around that time, even though I think there was always a feeling Breen/Dunne/even Stan were an accident that could happen.

Football has changed in 20 years of course. It's fun to compare eras but ultimately pointless. If Breen broke through now, he'd have better coaching, etc, to make him a better player than he was then.

**jbyrne** · 05/01/2023, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We were steeped against Holland at home! They should have won that 3 or 4-0 if we're honest. Portugal probably should have beaten us out there too, but the Dutch game was the one we really got away with.

But yeah, Breen was quite solid at the World Cup, and other than the Dutch game I don't recall us being too ropey defensively around that time, even though I think there was always a feeling Breen/Dunne/even Stan were an accident that could happen.

Football has changed in 20 years of course. It's fun to compare eras but ultimately pointless. If Breen broke through now, he'd have better coaching, etc, to make him a better player than he was then.

we were down to 10 men for most of the second half.
how many saves did given actually have to make in that game?

we should have won 3/4-1 in amsterdam but thats football!

easily the most impressive qualification I have ever witnessed from us.

**pineapple stu** · 05/01/2023, 4:36 PM

We were - and I don't want to take away from the rest of the campaign, especially Holland away - but in terms of shaky defence of that era, that game stands out for me.

Stan and Given falling over each other (and van Nistelrooy falling over them) stands out, as does Kluivert firing wide when we gave possession away on the edge of the box for no reason. Both before Kelly was sent off as I recall (certainly the first one was the first half), and both shambolic defending

Think there were a couple of other incidents too. Keane may have held that match together on his own just by bollocking people. We don't have anyone in that role now

**Eirambler** · 05/01/2023, 5:29 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We were steeped against Holland at home! They should have won that 3 or 4-0 if we're honest. Portugal probably should have beaten us out there too, but the Dutch game was the one we really got away with.

But yeah, Breen was quite solid at the World Cup, and other than the Dutch game I don't recall us being too ropey defensively around that time, even though I think there was always a feeling Breen/Dunne/even Stan were an accident that could happen.

Football has changed in 20 years of course. It's fun to compare eras but ultimately pointless. If Breen broke through now, he'd have better coaching, etc, to make him a better player than he was then.

Cunningham was the only centre back at that time that I had any confidence in. And even he was originally a right back at club level if I remember correctly, Mick tried to turn him and, bizarrely, Ian Harte into centre backs because we were so short (so was Ian as it turned out and that part of the experiment didn't last too long).

Staunton was a left midfielder, turned left back, turned centre back who was only there because he had no pace left to play any other position, Dunne was talented but unprofessional and miles from the standout defender he would later become and Breen pretty much guaranteed you one shocker of a mistake per game and it was usually just a question of whether we got away with it that day or not. It was a long way from the Moran/McGrath/McCarthy/O'Leary days just a few years previous to that.

**elatedscum** · 05/01/2023, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I should have qualified but I thought it was obvious; Irish players.

That's a pretty small pool to work with. Think we've had 5 or 6 first choice keepers in the last 30 years, with Given being the only one to earn the gloves young enough to be compared to Bazunu.

But I'll try... John O'Shea? Made a lot of mistakes in an Ireland shirt (and for United too) early in his career. From an Ireland perspective, Trap came in and the mistakes stopped.

**pineapple stu** · 05/01/2023, 6:19 PM

Originally Posted by Eirambler

Cunningham was the only centre back at that time that I had any confidence in. And even he was originally a right back at club level if I remember correctly, Mick tried to turn him and, bizarrely, Ian Harte into centre backs because we were so short (so was Ian as it turned out and that part of the experiment didn't last too long).

Yeah, Cunningham was a right-back originally alright.

Though - how did you cover Mick's bizarre (or enforced? Given Liam Daish was probably next in line) centre-back conversions without mentioning the Roy Keane experiment?!

**Eirambler** · 05/01/2023, 6:29 PM

True, possibly my brain has felt the need over the years to block out that one!

**Stuttgart88** · 05/01/2023, 8:49 PM

I thought Bazunu could have done better trying to cut out a low cross last week but Jaysus, Chelsea�s Kepa just carefully shepherded a similar ball into Mahrez�s path for City�s goal. Practically an assist.