Stephen Kenny

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

This is probably the worst of your arguments so if you think that it has dismantled anything.....yikes. Do you need to be introduced to the concept of time and how things change as it passes? I've already pointed out that you've contradicted yourself on this very point. Your argument that the players coming through are something McCarthy didn't have that Kenny does is a better one overall if we were arguing pure squad ability levels but it doesn't answer the lack of experience piece so it's not that useful here really.


Let's go back to basics:

My point - Kenny has had less experienced players to select than McCarthy, particularly in key positions. One by choice to be fair (Didzy) and that was a huge mistake for me. McCarthy relied a lot on Randolph, Duffy, Whelan and McGoldrick. Our best performances were those when Randolph kept us in the game, Duffy got a goal, Whelan kept us disciplined and McGoldrick led the line. Those players OVER TIME, disappeared or sadly lost the plot in one case. Ultimately we were in a transition where that spine needed to be replaced in Kenny's first few years or sooner. Surely you can at least agree to that if you don't agree that the replacing has been done well? It was staring us in the face just as the wing back positions are now. We still haven't replaced McGoldrick which is really saying something although Obafemi may give us something completely different and better if he keeps going.

Your answer to this has been two fold I suppose but correct me if I missed a point:

1) "but look at this list of talent with all these breakthroughs!" - There were maybe 3 or 4 real breakthroughs on your list and even if your entire list had positive ones, that doesn't answer a lack of experience. Quite the opposite obviously. Again, we massively disagree on the levels of talent available. I'm as hopeful as samhaydenjr but we are years away from having an experienced side. So, as I said, not a great argument here.

2) "But he had the same players available"
My point - You yourself noted that a lot of those players were struggling badly or on the way out. I quoted you from 2020 saying that it was a "big concern for Kenny looking ahead" You've ignored that you contradict yourself by quoting another post you made, presumably later, which was essentially the opposite i.e. you stated that Kenny had a slightly stronger team.
My response - You thinking that and the reality of the situation are two different things. A bunch of unproven talent and a bunch of expiring talent doesn't answer the deficiencies in experience we had in key areas, notably GK, centre half, centre mid and striker.

I do think Kenny's squad has the potential to be better than Mick's squad, and by quite a margin. Mick's squad was by no means good. There were weak links all over the place and it was the last good effort the better ones had. Mick did a decent job getting the most out of them. It was an experienced unit though, again with our best performers playing in key positions. Until we have a really good option up front and more options in midfield at least, we are going to struggle to break teams down and we are going to cough up stupid goals from nothing. Unless we find a very good manager of course but I wouldn't trust the FAI with that job just yet.

The only contradiction is the only argument you're attempting to make. Kenny lost experience. The problem is that Kenny had virtually the same squad as McCarthy's. And you know that means the players were a year older and.......had gained.......more................... experience.

These players were mostly between 27 and 29 and in their prime. Sam and I have provided you with a long list of names that have broken through to add to these players in their prime. That all means that your argument is in bits.

I noted players got dropped for 1 weekend but as you say, I also noted in 2021 that Kenny had a slight improvement on McCarthy's squad. Since then it's got even better. The proof of this is has already been pointed out to you multiple times.

[ontheotherhand]

The only contradiction is the only argument you're attempting to make. Kenny lost experience. The problem is that Kenny had virtually the same squad as McCarthy's. And you know that means the players were a year older and.......had gained.......more................... experience.

These players were mostly between 27 and 29 and in their prime. Sam and I have provided you with a long list of names that have broken through to add to these players in their prime. That all means that your argument is in bits.

I noted players got dropped for 1 weekend but as you say, I also noted in 2021 that Kenny had a slight improvement on McCarthy's squad. Since then it's got even better. The proof of this is has already been pointed out to you multiple times.

In their prime but getting dropped at club level as you said? Right you are so!

Your list is worthless in this discussion until those players are experienced. Please stop missing the point for the love of Gary Twigg.

But look, it's Friday. It's late. I give up. If you want to keep believing your odd version of events I don't think there's much anyone can do to help you.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

And how was he doing when Kenny took over?

On Hendrick - yeah McCarthy had some of the same dross Kenny has had to use. I'd argue Kenny has actually gotten more out of him so he's a bit of a weird one but mentioning him doesn't help you particularly as he's gone backwards in his career over time. Having to play him is where we are at due to the lack of real breakthroughs on your previous list. So again it works against you.

Try to answer one point clearly - why did you think Kenny had a huge problem back in 2020 in terms of players available? We had all this talent coming in that you keep referring to. So what was your big concern?

He scored 3 goals since 2014 before Kenny took over.

It's weird that you think Kenny has got more out of anyone looking at the results. Again those pesky facts getting in the way. He had to play Hendrick until.......players broke through at their clubs. This really isn't going well for you.

Kenny's problem in 2020 was that he managed to turn a team competing with Denmark and Switzerland into a team competing with minnows. He had the squad, he didn't have the coaching or management skills however.

[ontheotherhand]

He scored 3 goals since 2014 before Kenny took over.

It's weird that you think Kenny has got more out of anyone looking at the results. Again those pesky facts getting in the way. He had to play Hendrick until.......players broke through at their clubs. This really isn't going well for you.

Kenny's problem in 2020 was that he managed to turn a team competing with Denmark and Switzerland into a team competing with minnows. He had the squad, he didn't have the coaching or management skills however.

He played Hendrick last week ffs. Do you just pop into existence each day brand new?

Goodnight Boomers. Until a new Boomers arrives tomorrow.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

In their prime but getting dropped at club level as you said? Right you are so!

Your list is worthless in this discussion until those players are experienced. Please stop missing the point for the love of Gary Twigg.

But look, it's Friday. It's late. I give up. If you want to keep believing your odd version of events I don't think there's much anyone can do to help you.

White flag raised by ontheotherhand.

If you're only argument is a post I made about 1 weekend in 2020 then I think you're better off leaving it there. Facts will always come out on top.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

He played Hendrick last week ffs. Do you just pop into existence each day brand new?

Goodnight Boomers. Until a new Boomers arrives tomorrow.

Was Josh Cullen suspended or something?

You haven't taken been put back in your box that well. It's only the internet, take it easy.

[ontheotherhand]

Oh dear. Hendrick has played with Cullen in midfield in this very group. And with Knight and Molumby both available. So again, all those breakthroughs aren't doing much for you are they? Nor was that argument ever much use as I've pointed out to you.

But look, I'll give you the rest of the weekend to answer the question I posed you above. And don't brush it off as a one weekend post you made. That won't cut it. You wouldn't have called it a "huge problem for Kenny" in that scenario and your subsequent post was a year later by your own admission. So what changed?

So have a sleep. Let the ideas bounce around and come back to me with something to explain your turnaround. Or don't, it's getting a bit dull for me so I can't imagine how the rest of the forum feels. Apologies to one and all.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Oh dear. Hendrick has played with Cullen in midfield in this very group. And with Knight and Molumby both available. So again, all those breakthroughs aren't doing much for you are they? Nor was that argument ever much use as I've pointed out to you.

But look, I'll give you the rest of the weekend to answer the question I posed you above. And don't brush it off as a one weekend post you made. That won't cut it. You wouldn't have called it a "huge problem for Kenny" in that scenario and your subsequent post was a year later by your own admission. So what changed?

So have a sleep. Let the ideas bounce around and come back to me with something to explain your turnaround. Or don't, it's getting a bit dull for me so I can't imagine how the rest of the forum feels. Apologies to one and all.

Is that the experienced Hendrick or did he lose some experience as he got older? The point is that McCarthy didn't really have a choice, Kenny does......because of all the breakthroughs. Again, McCarthy's squad plus numerous breakthroughs is better than McCarthy's squad alone. It's pretty basic stuff.

It was a post about a weekend in 2020. It's really desperate stuff to be clinging onto that as your only argument. Maybe I should ask you how do you work out that players who get older lose experience? Somehow between McCarthy's last game and Kenny's first, players who turned 29 instead of 28 for example, actually lost experience. I think with points like that, it's only right that you apologise to anyone reading it.

[ontheotherhand]

Is that the experienced Hendrick or did he lose some experience as he got older? The point is that McCarthy didn't really have a choice, Kenny does......because of all the breakthroughs. Again, McCarthy's squad plus numerous breakthroughs is better than McCarthy's squad alone. It's pretty basic stuff.

It was a post about a weekend in 2020. It's really desperate stuff to be clinging onto that as your only argument. Maybe I should ask you how do you work out that players who get older lose experience? Somehow between McCarthy's last game and Kenny's first, players who turned 29 instead of 28 for example, actually lost experience. I think with points like that, it's only right that you apologise to anyone reading it.

That's not an answer. Why did you change your opinion that Kenny had a huge problem with players regressing in 2020? Surely the young talent coming through would have solved that? Take your time.

[tetsujin1979]

Is that the experienced Hendrick or did he lose some experience as he got older? The point is that McCarthy didn't really have a choice, Kenny does......because of all the breakthroughs. Again, McCarthy's squad plus numerous breakthroughs is better than McCarthy's squad alone. It's pretty basic stuff.

It was a post about a weekend in 2020. It's really desperate stuff to be clinging onto that as your only argument. Maybe I should ask you how do you work out that players who get older lose experience? Somehow between McCarthy's last game and Kenny's first, players who turned 29 instead of 28 for example, actually lost experience. I think with points like that, it's only right that you apologise to anyone reading it.

That's assuming that players' performance does not degrade due to things like aging, injuries, etc.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

That's not an answer. Why did you change your opinion that Kenny had a huge problem with players regressing in 2020? Surely the young talent coming through would have solved that? Take your time.

Ah lad, you're making a show of yourself now. I've answered the same question multiple times. The post said nothing about regressing. It was a moment in time in 2020. Let me give you an example. Shane Duffy was struggling with Celtic in 2020/2021. He was playing but having a bad time. He went back to Brighton and won his place back in a decent premier league outfit. These things happen, players go through ups and downs. The same happened during McCarthy's time and every other manager for Ireland. Even for some of our top players. Remember Robbie Keane having a tough time at Liverpool or moving to LA Galaxy? He was still banging them in for Ireland.

Also, some of the young players hadn't made a breakthrough at that point or were just starting too. I explained all this in 2021, you went through all my posts so you know this. Repeating the same question doesn't cover the fact that Kenny had the same squad as McCarthy minus Glenn Whelan and then a huge influx of young talent to choose from during his term. He's made a balls of it.

Now, with that comprehensively put to bed. Are you going to explain how players lost experience as they got older? Take your time.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

That's assuming that players' performance does not degrade due to things like aging, injuries, etc.

Yes, as explained above. That happens. Every manager has to deal with it. The majority of Kenny's squad were between 27 and 29 though and really not much different to what McCarthy had a year earlier.

[ontheotherhand]

Ah lad, you're making a show of yourself now. I've answered the same question multiple times. The post said nothing about regressing. It was a moment in time in 2020. Let me give you an example. Shane Duffy was struggling with Celtic in 2020/2021. He was playing but having a bad time. He went back to Brighton and won his place back in a decent premier league outfit. These things happen, players go through ups and downs. The same happened during McCarthy's time and every other manager for Ireland. Even for some of our top players. Remember Robbie Keane having a tough time at Liverpool or moving to LA Galaxy? He was still banging them in for Ireland.

Also, some of the young players hadn't made a breakthrough at that point or were just starting too. I explained all this in 2021, you went through all my posts so you know this. Repeating the same question doesn't cover the fact that Kenny had the same squad as McCarthy minus Glenn Whelan and then a huge influx of young talent to choose from during his term. He's made a balls of it.

Now, with that comprehensively put to bed. Are you going to explain how players lost experience as they got older? Take your time.

Oh I didn't go through all your posts. I value my sanity slightly more than that. I just went back to see how this forum felt in 2020. As expected people recognized that we needed to refresh the squad due to players regressing and/or retiring. To my delight you yourself brought up the issue in the form of a lot of our options not doing so well at club level. And of course that happens for all managers but the dogs in the street knew Ireland had a particularly weak group of players who should have been in their prime and very little coming through that was ready. As you've said.

You've made some progress above though. At least you're now acknowledging the time complexities involved.

[John83]

Lads, would ye ever take it to PMs. The two of you yelling "less experienced" "no, extra players" at each other for days on end isn't reflecting well on either of you.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Oh I didn't go through all your posts. I value my sanity slightly more than that. I just went back to see how this forum felt in 2020. As expected people recognized that we needed to refresh the squad due to players regressing and/or retiring. To my delight you yourself brought up the issue in the form of a lot of our options not doing so well at club level. And of course that happens for all managers but the dogs in the street knew Ireland had a particularly weak group of players who should have been in their prime and very little coming through that was ready. As you've said.

You've made some progress above though. At least you're now acknowledging the time complexities involved.

Only Glenn Whelan was missing and he didn't retire! You just hate these facts ruining your arguments.

Look, I've explained it all as clearly as I can to you. I've backed it up with examples and actual factual information. You're just going on your opinion and fail to answer a simple question I posed to you.

As John says above, people are sick of your nonsense. I will do them all a favour and put you on ignore. Ciao.

[ontheotherhand]

Lads, would ye ever take it to PMs. The two of you yelling "less experienced" "no, extra players" at each other for days on end isn't reflecting well on either of you.

Ah I think we would have sorted it out by Christmas.

But yeah fair enough John, it was going nowhere. If he turns up in my PMs though.........I will find you.

[paul_oshea]

I can see the narrative for this group now already. In an attempt to see him through for the campaign after

[Jd2793]

I can see the narrative for this group now already. In an attempt to see him through for the campaign after

bore off will ya. its not some conspiracy at all. it is a FACT that the draw has nailed us against two of europes strongest teams. kenny wont be kept on if he doesnt get us to the euros. people acknowledging the fact we've been harshly done in the draw doesnt mean they want him kept on past 2024

[seanfhear]

bore off will ya. its not some conspiracy at all. it is a FACT that the draw has nailed us against two of europes strongest teams. kenny wont be kept on if he doesnt get us to the euros. people acknowledging the fact we've been harshly done in the draw doesnt mean they want him kept on past 2024

Luck of the Draw ~ ~ Not harshly done.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Looks like a tough draw but when you look back, the top 2 are no better than who we got in the last euro draw. France and the Netherlands got knocked out in the round of 16 games at Euro 2020 while Switzerland got knocked out on penalties by Spain in the quarter finals after knocking out France. Denmark made it to the semi finals. We came close to qualifying with them two. Greece is a tough 4th seed but they could take points off the top 2.