How about, is SKOriginally Posted by pineapple stu
A - a messianic Godhead of soccerball destined to be unappreciated in his own time a bit like Van Gogh
B - a modern day Houdini who goes home and just laughs solidly after every game
C - a three card trickster snake oil salesman of the lowest kind
D - an English spy
Stephen Kenny Saviour, Leader, Winner, An Autobiography - In All Good Bookstores Now
I'd have premiership regulars or even players who had gotten to that level and who still had enough in the tank over what we have now if I was prioritizing short term results. Most people would I'd think?
Interesting use of time complexities there.... Cullen now v Whelan then is it? Or Cullen then v Whelan then? Or Whelan now vs Cullen when his legs are going? Kenny "had virtually the same squad with the addition of talented youngsters"? No he didn't. Time matters. Mick got the last best efforts of the old guard. He did ok in doing so. But they were spent by the time Kenny took over and they soon departed the scene. We all knew there would be a drop when the last of our decent players bit the dust. Even lads like Duffy who might have played a big part had issues that kept them from doing son.
You'd be more interesting to discuss things with if you didn't say you were stating facts when you weren't by the way. You were stating your opinions. SkStu gave you the facts. Mick's squad had more players playing at a higher level and with more experience so that in my opinion made his team stronger. As I said, he had a spine of proper senior footballers. We don't now. We have one or two defenders with experience and it shows when we switch off.
You're also putting a lot of pressure on this young and developed talent that Kenny has available all of a sudden. Are you claiming the players we have coming through, who are on loan at Championship or L1 level are of elite international quality already? What manager could possibly have gotten them to that level so quickly given they haven't had consistent club mgmt?
21 leagues and 25 cups.
Well no, no you haven't Boomers. You have given an opinion, which you would like to be factual, very much I'm sure. But it remains an opinion, one which you are very much entitled to hold but not as far as to present it as fact re respective squad comparability.
This is where you let yourself down & we look for more personal growth in your contributions, and can see you are trying. Very.
But they remain opinions.
Stephen Kenny Saviour, Leader, Winner, An Autobiography - In All Good Bookstores Now
D of course. Get an honest spanish speaking football manager.
Elite international quality hahahahhahahahahahaha.
What a ridiculous comment. Anyone playing regularly at League 1 and especially Championship level should be ready for international football, especially at the level Ireland play.
Bulgaria - not elite, poor
Finland - not elite, poor
Slovakia - not elite, average
Wales - not elite, average
Finland -not elite, poor
England second string - semi-elite
Wales -not elite, average
Bulgaria - not elite, poor
Serbia - not elite, average
Luxembourg - not elite, poor
Qatar - not elite, poor
Andorra - not elite, terrible
Hungary - not elite, average
Portugal - elite
Azerbaijan - not elite, poor
Qatar - not elite, poor
Portugal - elite
Luxembourg - not elite, poor
Belgium - second string but elite
Lithuania - not elite, poor
Armenia - not elite, poor
Ukraine - not elite, average
Scotland - not elite, average
Ukraine - not elite, average
Scotland - not elite, average
Armenia - not elite, poor
We?ve played one elite team, and 2 elite teams second strings.
Theyre no great shakes Bill.
What are you talking about? Kenny took over when the players Mick used were in their prime, most of them between 27 and 29, Randolph was the oldest at 33. That's young these days as we see many players going later into their 30's than we've seen previously. On top of these players, he had a list of young players breaking through, I've already listed them (Bazunu, Kelleher, Collins, Omobamidele, O'Shea, Molumby, Idah, Obafemi, Knight, Ogbene). He couldn't have been dealt a better hand really. And I'm not even going to entertain this nonsense that because a player got relegated with a club he became a worse player. Collins got relegated with Burnley, does that mean he's a better player because he got signed by Wolves a few months later?
It's been vital for Kenny supporters to try to paint us as minnows, whipping boys with an aging squad in need of total transformation. The actual facts are that Kenny inherited a squad competing with top level teams like Denmark and Switzerland, he had an abundance of young players making breakthroughs with their clubs and he's made a complete balls of it. The evidence for this is the results and league tables. No amount of spinning from Kenny supporters can cover that up.
I've given the facts above again. Unfortunately for you zoomy, results and players ages aren't based on opinions. I can see that you're not a poster to debate honestly so I will see if I can figure out how to put you on my ignore list. Take care.
When you list it like that, it really shows how bad Kenny's record has been.
P 28 W 7 D 11 L 10
For comparison, his predecessor played against 2 elite teams home and away and only lost 1 game.
serbia were much better than portugal.
They blow hot and cold in fairness (as do Portugal I guess), but yeah, if the scale is elite -> average -> poor -> terrible, it's about the only one I'd query (along with Finland, who should be average, not poor)
But I think the point is still valid that we have faced very few top sides given the two Nations League campaigns and England/Belgium changing a full XI against us.
There's a big gap between Elite and Average IMO
From the FIFA rankings - https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-rank...dateId=id13750 - I reckon that you could have the top 15 in the world as elite, the next 20(ie ranked 16-35) as good, the next 30(36-65) as average, then the remainder split between poor (66-100) and terrible (> 100)
Just basing it on the current world rankings linked above because I don't know how to find out past rankings. These are the rankings of the 7 teams we've managed to beat under Kenny:
Scotland 45
Qatar 48
Armenia 92
Luxembourg 93
Azerbaijan 128
Lithuania 142
Andorra 152
A great example of why this place devolves into nonsense.
The argument was being made that we have a batch of wonderful talent coming through that makes our squad stronger than it was under McCarthy. A list of our recent opponents is at best a tangential response. Are you saying Kenny has played weaker teams so our young talent should be able to accelerate their development?
We are playing a L1 right back as our most creative midfielder and none of our strikers are in any way developed. We have a 20 year old in goals and if we want to pick a more senior player we have to go with a lad who watches football from the bench most weeks. We have lost experience. Experience is important. We make stupid mistakes and concede stupid goals out of nowhere due to a lack of it. Do you need a whiteboard session?
Nobody is arguing that Kenny still shouldn't be beating some of the teams you've listed off in your response. If you actually read the thread and responded in good faith it would make for a more a more interesting debate.
As I said earlier, I'd be ok if Kenny was replaced. I just don't know how much more another manager would get out of the current squad. It should be stronger in 2-3 years. At that point it might be a more tempting job. But we are relying on some key players going up a few levels. If we could coax an Anthony Barry or similar into taking the job I'd be up for that at this point. But at the moment, it's not an ideal role and we can't pay above the odds. Easier to just let it ride. We are getting decent shifts out of players who will be critical in 2024 - Bazunu, Collins, Egan, Cullen, Knight, Molumby, Obafemi....hopefully one or two others. It's the core of a team that might do something. It could still use some experience.
Last edited by ontheotherhand; 30/09/2022 at 3:54 PM.
21 leagues and 25 cups.
I'm not sure who this post was aimed at, you seem flustered.
Kenny inherited the same squad that McCarthy had. They were mostly between 27 and 29 when he took over. In their prime. He had the opportunity to blend the youngsters in with this squad for the past 2 years. It wasn't a rebuilding job the Kenny supporters are desperate to paint. The results from the teams we faced have been appalling, the teams have been listed for you by Weldoninho.
The right thing is for Kenny to be replaced. Trying to claim that no one else is available or wants the job is another tactic used by desperate Kenny supporters. It's nonsense just like the rest of the weak defence put forward for him.
The date drop down box on the right on the world rankings shows the dates each of the previous rankings were announced.
To get the ranking of a side on a particular date, select the nearest date before that date
e.g. the 3-0 win over Scotland was Saturday, 11th June 2022.
From the drop down box on the rankings page, the last rankings before that date were announced on 31 Mar 2022 - Scotland were 39th, we were 47th
Eloratings.net also has a list of all matches with the rankings afterwards noted, as well as the movement from the match, so you can quickly work out the ranking before the match
I replied to the post it was aimed at. Why did that confuse you?
That you don't recognize we had a rebuild on the cards says a lot about your ability to comprehend the situation to be honest. Who are these players in their prime that Kenny had by the way? Hendrick? Not exactly a lad I'd build a team around.
We lost experience and the job was to replace that with unproven players, some with a lot of potential but all with very few games under their belts. If you think Mick would have done better while sliding the FAI into further debt that's grand. I don't. He gets sacked everywhere he goes for a reason and the football he plays wouldn't have suited what we currently have. We have no centre forward to hold the ball up and Duffy went off the boil for a long time. It's debatable that he's even back to the levels he was at under Mick when we relied on him so much. It's a moot point anyway. We can't afford to hire Mick or anyone like him......although at this stage maybe he'd do it for free just to keep busy.
I would replace Kenny now if someone popped up who we could afford, who would do a better job of making sure our lack of experience doesn't cough up long range goals from the right side of midfield. That's an actual issue we have that needs a response and Kenny or the players seem unable to adjust for it. For me that's down to a lack of experience in midfield and defence. Even Whelan at 36 with no legs would do a better job of closing down those Armenian attacks. Arguably the best of the young talent Kenny has at his disposal that you claim to be better than what Mick had actually operate in that area i.e. Collins, Cullen, Molumby and yet here we are having conceded multiple goals like that against poor teams. Why? Do you think Kenny tells the team to switch off for periods in games? Or could it be that they are either not that great or not that experienced yet?
Last edited by ontheotherhand; 30/09/2022 at 5:24 PM.
21 leagues and 25 cups.
Thanks. So to update my post, the rankings of the teams Kenny has beaten:
Scotland 39
Qatar 43
Armenia 92
Luxembourg 94
Azerbaijan 119
Lithuania 137
Andorra 158
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