Scotland and Qatar are significantly ahead of the NI list in fairness.
Plus you've ignored the question of improved/disimproved recent form which is absolutely a factor. And the Elo shows that the North have declined a lot more than we have in the same timeframe.
Again, I don't fully disagree with the point you're making, but you do need to learn to be a bit more considered in your posts is all...
Or we could point out that Stephen Kenny has the lowest win percentage of any permanent Ireland manager since the 1960's!Originally Posted by passinginterest
I think you're missing the point completely. I'm not saying anything about Baraclough doing a better or worse job than Kenny. I'm saying they have a very similar record. Both being abysmal. You can argue about which record is worse but that's as pointless as arguing which concrete parachute is worse.
You could swap Baraclough and Kenny's name on the below snippet from an article and it's remarkably similar:
'The decision was reached at an Irish FA board meeting on Thursday night, and came after Baraclough's side collected only five points from a possible 18 from their League C group, battling relegation in a campaign in which they had targeted promotion.
Irish FA chief executive Patrick Nelson said: "Under Ian?s stewardship we have seen the introduction of new players who will wear the green jersey with pride for years to come and for this we place on record our gratitude.
Baraclough stepped up from Northern Ireland?s under-21s to replace Michael O?Neill in June 2020 but won only six of his 28 games in charge inside 90 minutes.'
He also achieved Northern Ireland's first ever Nations league win.
None of that saved him though and he was rightfully sacked. Same thing should have happened to Kenny already.
I miss the 1960’s and all the Free Love.
I'm not. When you say, for example, "Are we ruling out Kenny's first 16 games?", then the reality is that yes, more recent games will absolutely matter more when judging a manager in the here and now. That's always been the case.
You could make the point (but you haven't) that the September games suggested that our two good June results may have been impacted by end-of-season fatigue for both Scotland and Ireland (and the war and non-playing for the Ukrainians), and that struggling to beat Armenia in September is still our level.
So lots of nuance, but you just keep shouting over people, which doesn't help your argument. Which, again, I'm not entirely disagreeing with.
You clearly are. At no point in Kenny's reign has he reached any sort of minimal standard. Don't forget where we were when he took over. People can cherry pick any period they want, it's all been abysmal. The most recent Nations league we battled it out at the bottom of the table with a woeful Armenia side, that's no better than battling it out with Luxembourg and Azerbaijan in the world cup campaign before that or Bulgaria in the previous Nations league.
We've gone from a competitive team at the top end of qualification groups to also rans under Kenny. It's not shouting over people to point out this fact or to bust some of the other myths surrounding his reign.
I clearly am what? Fully disagreeing with you? I'm not, and you can see my comments on the latest Kenny poll about whether Kenny should stay or not. And I've said before I think Mick is a better manager in general, and that Delaney is an idiot for the way he managed the appointment of the two, but we can't afford a Mick-level manager now (again, thanks Delaney)
But let's take a closer look at the comparison you keep putting out btw. Mick got three draws and a convincing defeat from the four top games (Denmark/Switzerland). Kenny got two draws and two defeats from Portugal/Serbia - very close to an (undeserved) draw in Portugal, so not a massive amount of difference there. Mick scraped past Gibraltar twice in a less convincing manner than Kenny beat Andorra. Mick drew with Georgia away and beat them unconvincingly at home - they were almost exactly the same rating as Armenia, so really just one long-distance strike in the difference. Mick took our Elo from 1704 to 1729; Kenny has taken it back down to 1683 (albeit having dropped as low 1604 after the Azerbaijan draw, which was probably the peak of the suggestions he should be sacked too)
Is it really the worlds apart that you make it out to be? I'm not so sure.
No, you're clearly missing the point.
McCarthy's reign was poor in places but his record was played 10, won 5, drew 4 and lost 1. He was so close to qualification for the Euros. Kenny has got no where near qualification or near the top 2 in any group. You can do all the ifs, buts and maybe's you want but that's just ridiculous because you can do that any which way that suits. You can say Portugal could have won 5-1 or Serbia should have been out of sight etc but that's all pointless.
The facts are that Kenny has been in a battle to avoid last place in all the group's we've played under him while for the overwhelming majority of campaigns for the last 40 years, we've been battling to come top or battling to qualify. Whenever a manager failed to compete, they've been sacked. Kenny has had 3 groups and a failed play off on his record. No amount of excuses, myths, what ifs or untruths can cover that.
This is getting tiresome. BS, we get it.
I know it gets boring, I'm just amazed that this fella is still our manager and that there still seems to be a majority who want him to continue. But I'm probably over zealous in my arguments.
Over-zealous, but never tiresome or boring.
id rather euthanasia
Mick McCarthy should've been kept on to see out the Euros campaign rather than give it to Kenny. We had finally started to have a bit of shape about us. And spirit. Not that Mick was the long-term answer but I feel he has much better man-management and team understanding than Kenny. I could be wrong but it would be a first
Last edited by Fixer82; 21/11/2022 at 4:54 PM.
Folding my way into the big money!!!
we'd great shape struggling over the line against gibraltor and georgia at home, lets not mention the away game. neither are or were the answer. the sentiment around kenny would be a lot different if we didnt miss sitters in that qualification ko tie v slovakia. he'd have bought himself some good will. his time is up now as far as im concerned but mccarthys reign was grim aswell.Mick McCarthy should've been kept on to see out the Euros campaign rather than give it to Kenny. We had finally started to have a bit of shape about us. And spirit. Not that Mick was the long-term answer but I feel he has much better man-management and team understanding than Kenny. I could be wrong but it would be a first
Stop Right There ~ ~ Just Stop.
He would have embarrassed us at Euro 2020. Imagine the whole of Europe seeing one of his delusional, stuttering, nonsensical interviews after Germany spanked us 7-0?? “Yeah the intensity was there, and just one or two decisions went against us, we’re on the right track”.
we've not been spanked by anyone under SK though, so not really sure how you can come to that conclusion. We've been shocking against lesser sides and OK against those in or around us like scotland etc.
I think Kenny could be a good technical director or someone in charge of analysis or something. He seems to know the game well and understand the modern game but just doesn’t have the personality to rouse the team or get his message across.
The exact opposite of Martin O’Neill perhaps.
The truth is though, we were at our best when Anthony Barry was involved.
So…yeah let’s just give the gig to Anthony Barry
Last edited by Fixer82; 21/11/2022 at 8:41 PM.
Yes we have. Portugal and Serbia battered us. Could have lost 4 or 5 to either.
the poster said we'd lose 7-0 we've not been humiliated like that at all, yet. sorry but your anti kenny bias is playing up if you think portugal should have beaten us by 4 goals. they were poor in the two ties. serbia deserved to win in dublin, not by 5 goals though. people are going far out of there way to over exaggerate things now
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