The One That Got Away?

[Eirambler]

Grealish was never going to play for us at senior level unless it became clear he was out of the picture for England. The Rice one is a bit unclear, hard to say if he would have taken a senior cap.

Ultimately these are English lads who wanted to play for England as their first choice. The real ones that will get away in future will be Irish born and raised players that choose other countries despite being good enough to play for us. I can't think of any cases where that has happened yet, the likes of Zayed and Lopes weren't good enough for Ireland.

[tetsujin1979]

Martin Keown and Steve Bruce were ones we were unlucky not to get
Keown didn't think he would play as we had superb players at the time and Bruce played an England B game and was deemed ineligible

Keown was asked about this before. He said his father asked him to play for England so they could give something back to the country that has given him a home, job, family, etc.

[pineapple stu]

Bruce's wiki has a slightly different line on his reasons for turning us down than I or Diggs have given -

Bruce states in his autobiography that further investigation revealed that, while his earlier appearance for England B in a friendly was not an issue, his appearances for the England Youth team in a UEFA-sanctioned tournament prohibited him from playing for the senior team of another country. He has subsequently claimed that he chose not to play for Ireland as it would have caused problems for his club at a time when UEFA restricted the number of foreign players that a club could have in their squad in its competitions.

[Kingdom]

3. Martin Keown: one of the rocks that the Arsenal defence was built on and would have hit his peak when perhaps our defence under Jack was beginning to look way too slow. Winners mentality too. Irish mother (Wicklow, i thin) and nordy father (Fermanagh). WTF. *spits*

To quote MOM, "both Protestant strongholds!"

Great OP stu.

[Kingdom]

england have the luxury of being able to do so when they are 5 nil up against latvia. we rarely have such a luxury.
caps shouldn't be given out so cheaply anyway

Agreed, and I'm not so sure how I feel about capping someone who is obviously so stupid as to not understand the reason why they are being capped in the first place.

Trevor Sinclair, given a lot of what I've read from him in the past 12 months or so, is a great shout.

[Kingdom]

Keown was asked about this before. He said his father asked him to play for England so they could give something back to the country that has given him a home, job, family, etc.

It's called tax isn't it?

[ColourfulPeanut]

Agreed, and I'm not so sure how I feel about capping someone who is obviously so stupid as to not understand the reason why they are being capped in the first place.

Trevor Sinclair, given a lot of what I've read from him in the past 12 months or so, is a great shout.

We're not trying to trick them into cap tying them. They're well aware and it's giving them the chance to put the story to rest, just like Obafemi did at the time. The Rice situation should have been put to bed well before he mad 3 friendly caps. Make him decide in the Moldova game and move on if he refuses.

In terms of players who genuinely got away, surely Tim Cahill is up there? He probably would have committed to us in 2002 if the rules at the time had allowed.

[osarusan]

i don't think its nonsense. they either want to play for us or they don't. if they want to then they will wait until the cap is fully merited. simple as that with me

Do we really have the luxury of waiting?

Yes, it's nice to let them make up their minds, and know that they are playing for us because they are really committed...but it'd also be nice to have Declan Rice in our midfield. And once they're capped and locked in...they're committed.

[EalingGreen]

Wales are in the similar position as us and they manage to blood their dual eligible young players very easily and avoid the nonsense. Not saying throw on 15 year olds for 2mins in a play-off match, but there's an acceptable middle ground to accelerate dual national players through the system.

Actually Wales are much more subtle/less cynical than that.

When Ossian Roberts was in charge of development at the FAW, he would routinely advise dual-qualified youngsters to go along should they get called up by the FA.

He knew that when they were at St.Georges Park they'd see that they were just a number amongst many, whereas with Wales they'd get personal attention and (if good enough) a fast-track towards senior football. While those who did revert to England were no real loss, since they'd probably have gone at a later date anyhow (if good enough).

Wales qualifying for tournament finals recently must have helped as well, the same as it was easier eg for Big Jack to persuade Anglo's and Scots etc when you were qualifying regularly.

Look at Brennan Johnson. They capped him at 19 in a Nations League game and any debate was instantly killed, even though he's a serious prospect.

BJ's dad David is a dual-qualified former international himself (also his Agent).
Therefore the player will not have lacked for sound advice if Wales were playing games with him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_...er,_born_1976)

[EalingGreen]

Keown was asked about this before. He said his father asked him to play for England so they could give something back to the country that has given him a home, job, family, etc.

Reminiscent of the example of "Gentleman" Johnny Carey:

"At the outbreak of the second World War Carey adopted a highly principled position. He could have chosen to return to neutral Ireland for the duration of the war but instead he decided that '...a country that gives me my living is worth fighting for.' He joined the British army and was posted to both Italy and North Africa."
http://www.soccer-ireland.com/manche...hnny-carey.htm

[Razors left peg]

Grealish was never going to play for us at senior level unless it became clear he was out of the picture for England. The Rice one is a bit unclear, hard to say if he would have taken a senior cap.

Ehhhh..... he took 3 of them!

[seanfhear]

Ehhhh..... he took 3 of them!

3 Take-Aways ! ! !

[Olé Olé]

Ehhhh..... he took 3 of them!

And subsequently ****ed into them on a couple of opportunities.

[Eirambler]

Ehhhh..... he took 3 of them!

Of course yeah the friendlies - Sorry, I meant a competitive one that would have tied him to us.

[Eirambler]

Just thinking about this in the context of the current squad - I think the answer to SkStu's question is actually Jamal Lewis.

24 years old, English born, mother from Belfast, middle name is Piaras (Irish for Pierce/Percy), plays left back/left wing back, ex sprinter, Newcastle paid £15m for him.

Played for NI from a young enough age, so was never really on the radar, but being born in 1998, he could easily have been one of Kenny's Kids at left back in his under 21 team and would (once back from his long term injury) probably by now be our starting left wing back.

[zero]

Just thinking about this in the context of the current squad - I think the answer to SkStu's question is actually Jamal Lewis.

24 years old, English born, mother from Belfast, middle name is Piaras (Irish for Pierce/Percy), plays left back/left wing back, ex sprinter, Newcastle paid £15m for him.

Played for NI from a young enough age, so was never really on the radar, but being born in 1998, he could easily have been one of Kenny's Kids at left back in his under 21 team and would (once back from his long term injury) probably by now be our starting left wing back.

He's been really really poor at newcastle though. One of the worst signings in recent history - looked all at sea defensively, out of his depth. I think he needs a move to get his career back on track as I don't see him troubling the Newcastle first team.

Matt Targett has been signed after a successful loan spell so Lewis is very much second or even third choice left back.

[boovidge]

Taking into account whether or not there was ever a realistic chance of the player representing Ireland I think it has to be Rice, given how much he'd improve our poor team and the fact he actually won multiple senior caps for us. If it's just a simple question of best eligible player that didn't represent us then Rooney, Kane or Scholes.

[third policeman]

If it was a choice between Rice and Grealish, at present I'd have more regrets about losing Grealish. I think Collins may well become as good if not better than Rice, whilst we have no-one with the creativity and guile of Grealish. Can't actually stand either of them, but if we'd hung on to them we'd be at the World Cup now. In terms of best ever player we missed out on - Gerrard, without a question of a doubt. As a matter of interest is Maddison completely lost to us? I'm assuming his one England cap at whatever age he was at the time ties him to them. Pity, because he'll be lucky if he ever plays for them again.

[seanfhear]

Kevin Keegan and Paddy Crerand. I think Keegan said he had Irish Connections that could have made him eligible. Paddy Crerand definitely had.

[Eirambler]

Maddison's cap was in a qualifier and was after his 21st birthday so he's 100% tied to England.