Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Tuesday, 7th September 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

[Exgrad]

One more comment on SK's reign - one of the arguments put forward in his defense is that he needs more time. I don't think any Irish manager has had as much time to prepare for their first major qualifying campaign as Kenny. He had a play-off he shouldn't have had, a friendly against England, and a Nations League campaign. This team should have been ready from the game in Serbia - instead we're facing down the barrel of our worst qualifying campaign in half a century (possibly the first without a victory since then).

That said, if the final three performances actually do build on these last three and yield at least six points and a strong showing against Portugal, then the case can be made to give him another shot

I think thats fair criticism, the nations league in particular was an excellent opportunity to prepare. Things seemed to go wrong from the start though and all the crap around the England match was probably a much bigger set back than realised at the time. Duff bailing before things had even got going cant have been helpful. Hoping things have settled down now and he is trying to introduce reasonbly difficult coaching concepts (whether thats a good thing of not is another q).

[brine3]

I dunno Tony. Stephen Kelly was on SSN with Richard Dunne earlier. He was saying it's all well and good trying to play between the lines but you need results too. But yesterday and in some other games I didn't even see us try to play between the lines. There was no clever movement or interplay, it was all functional A to B along the touchline or into a channel type stuff. So is he trying to go about things the right way? I'd definitely agree that he's right to ask the players to trust themselves on the ball and there is plenty in his public interviews to agree with in terms of what he wants Irish teams to do, but a lot of the time none of this is evident on the pitch.

I would say his best match was Slovakia away. We played high pressing possession football and created good chances, but somehow didn't score.

The recent stuff has been standard desperation stuff that you'd see under any other Irish manager. I mean last night against Serbia we were going down the channels and getting McClean to whip balls into the box. This is no different to MON or McCarthy.

I don't know what happened. I get the feeling he might have lost the dressing room.

[John83]

I don't know what happened. I get the feeling he might have lost the dressing room.

I think there are other signs I'd expect to see if that had happened. There are other explanations too.

[brine3]

Well I don't know if the players don't like him, but subconsciously they may have given up on "the project". They go out there and play on instinct.

[jbyrne]

The recent stuff has been standard desperation stuff that you'd see under any other Irish manager. I mean last night against Serbia we were going down the channels and getting McClean to whip balls into the box. This is no different to MON or McCarthy.

or to how portugal managed to snatch a win from us last wednesday.....

[Exgrad]

Going on Matt Dohertys comments yesterday he hasn't lost the dressing room.

[brine3]

or to how portugal managed to snatch a win from us last wednesday.....

No. In that match we had 28% possession and Portugal were creating chance after chance. We were lucky to hold out as long was we did, and at the same time unlucky that we conceded so close at the end.

With 30 minutes to go in that match, I didn't feel we'd hold out. I don't think anybody did. Did you? The bookies still had Portugal as favourites to win at halftime.

The Portugal game was the same heroic, backs to the wall Irish performance that you might see under MON, Trap or McCarthy. It was nothing new.

[passinginterest]

No. In that match we had 28% possession and Portugal were creating chance after chance. We were lucky to hold out as long was we did, and at the same time unlucky that we conceded so close at the end.

With 30 minutes to go in that match, I didn't feel we'd hold out. I don't think anybody did. Did you? The bookies still had Portugal as favourites to win at halftime.

The Portugal game was the same heroic, backs to the wall Irish performance that you might see under MON, Trap or McCarthy. It was nothing new.

The first half of the Portugal game was much more positive than the second. Look at the stats at half time rather than full time and it's a pretty different story. I don't think anyone would argue the second half was great, or anything much more than backs to the wall (although still with flashes of attempting to counter in a more progressive way than in the past).

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/15...rtugal-Ireland

You can use the stats here to only show the first half and second half stats. 31.2% possession first half (not great but enough to create chances). 7 shots to 4, very respectable, 3 corner to 2. Points to a pretty good performance away to a top team.

Second half it was 24.4% possession (which is backs to the wall in fairness). 22 shots to 2, 11 corners to 1. No doubt, much more akin to what had gone before, but the first half performance earned the right to try and hold on in the second half and it was agonisingly close to working.

[Fixer82]

We should've had a penalty in the second half of that game. If we'd won that peno and scored we'd be hailing Stephen Kenny right now for his gameplan, which largely worked against Portugal. There was a plan at least which didn't seem to be the case at the end of O'Neill's reign

[John83]

I'm sure there were tens of seconds in which we had 100% possession and even all of the shots. Games aren't 45 minutes long. Andorra did rather well against us for longer than that.

[Stuttgart88]

Doherty isn't afraid to be openly critical of management either.

[jbyrne]

No. In that match we had 28% possession and Portugal were creating chance after chance. We were lucky to hold out as long was we did, and at the same time unlucky that we conceded so close at the end.

With 30 minutes to go in that match, I didn't feel we'd hold out. I don't think anybody did. Did you? The bookies still had Portugal as favourites to win at halftime.

The Portugal game was the same heroic, backs to the wall Irish performance that you might see under MON, Trap or McCarthy. It was nothing new.

my point was that their path to goal was whipping the ball into the box. most of their other attempts in the 2nd half were through the same method of pumping balls towards our box, long range shots etc. It was largely panic stations stuff from them.

at HT i thought we would concede early in the 2nd half but from 70 mins on i thought we could hold out. everytime portugals manager appeared on the screen he looked spooked

[Stuttgart88]

From Ken Early this morning:

Kenny’s Ireland have suffered some cruel sliding doors moments, going all the way back to Hourihane’s shot from six yards that was blocked by a Slovak defender on the line in the Euro 2020 playoff.

Against Serbia, a penalty-area foul by Stefan Mitrovic on Aaron Connolly at 1-1. No penalty. Instead, Serbia take the lead a few minutes later thanks to a positioning error by Ireland’s third-choice keeper. Against Luxembourg, James Collins’ shot from six yards is saved and Gerson Rodrigues’s from 25 yards flies into the corner. Against Portugal, Ireland are already 1-0 up when Palhinha jumps on Connolly’s back as he prepares to pull the trigger from eight yards. A clear penalty and - since there was no attempt to play the ball - a red card. The referee sees nothing and Portugal go on to win with a goal in the sixth minute of the five minutes of injury time.

If Ireland had been only averagely lucky instead of consistently unlucky, the picture in the qualifying group could look quite different.

I like using the Sliding Doors analogy myself to show how capricious football is, though I think some of the incidences above might be less clear cut than Early describes. Look at Austria away under O'Neill, Austria missed a sitter in injury time. 1-1 and the narrative would have been all about being too defensive etc. Instead it was a great away win. Wales away in the play off - McClean took out Joe Allen early on. Different game after that imho. Italy in Lille - Italy hit post before we scored. None of this belittles the results, they just highlight how the Gods can conspire to determine outcomes sometimes, like they did last night. In Finland Enda Stevens hit the post a minute before Randolph threw the ball straight to an attacker for their goal. Randolph didn't get away with his error, whereas Bazunu has got away with his ones. I shudder to think what'd have happened but for a worldie by Randolph at 0-0 on 50 minutes in Gibraltar.

I think it's fair to say that overall the Sliding Doors moments in general haven't gone Kenny's way.

I think in general some people are too quick to point out where we've got lucky or even relied on having a good goalkeeper to diminish performances but are blind to any bad luck that mitigates a bad result.

[paul_oshea]

Because luck evens itself out over the course of a campaign. You can't keep blaming luck or what ifs. Also its easy to say if this goal or that goal went in but there's nothing to suggest other things wouldn't have transpired afterwards. If there is a luckometre though O'Neill is up around 90 on it.

I sit/stand in 114/115 and friends telling me last night the atmosphere was really good in there, and from the videos I've seen it was busier than the weekend game. People must have stuff to do on the weekends, not much to do midweek covid in Dublin

I enjoyed last night in the second half, it was frantic, very similar to us v Denmark under Mick Mc. Unlike that game we didnt get a break by a bit of tired and dopey defending. I think a lot of similarities to the gung-ho approach in the last 20 mins under previous managers. The balance between when to pass and went to go over the top is coming about right, contrast that to say slovakia game. The "stats" might be relatively poor but the tempo in the second quarter of the second last night cant be questioned. But as John says you can have 100% possession over a few seconds, everything must be taken over the course of the game, and our individual and team performances are far too inconsistent and that tempo is lacking throughout. Until that changes we're going to be on a merry go round like we've experienced the last few months. Hendrick and McClean had great games last night, as did Duffy. But how often do they not and more importantly how often can you rely on 2 out of those 3?

Kenny in his 17 games in charge, finally got his subs right, almost spot on. But is everything taking too long for him to learn and cop on to?

My hope is that no focus on prospects but a few lads just magically appear similar to Andrew O and claim spots. If you're good enough you prove it up front like he has done. If we could even unearth 2 more of him around the middle or and/or 1 forward out of that I believe we'd be in a really good strong position. As usual though a plethora in one position, always the case with us.

Matt Doherty seems to play better when colemans not in the side or not near him at least. Hopefully he can keep producing that level of performance.

Bazunu and cluxton would get on well, hes taken it upon himself to bypass the first man/line on many occasion , his drift ball has pace and accuracy and its a real weapon - his best asset by far. He's using it more and more and its great to see especially with wingers like doherty and to a lesser extent mcclean to aim to out on the touchline. I still dont agree with this GAA inspired split the middle and bring out the backs either side of the goalie, all it does is land you in potential trouble, you can draw space in the middle without having to do that.

On Idah, hes nowhere near he needs to be, my buddy season ticket holder messaged last night " i can see idah never scoring for ireland", we've had shane long, mcgoldrick, kevin doyle do a similar role for us for years now, the latter and previous getting goals at least, as good headers of the ball, idah doesnt seem to have that, he needs to start wearing the helmet like Ronaldo. He has a long way to go to be anything other than a target man, but hopefully he gets the right training and coaching to work on that at club level. Not sure a loan move would do good for that where they want instant impacts.

Theres an interesting turnaround of kennys stat being pushed about, 1 loss in 6. Makes things sound a lot better

[Kingdom]

I never really understand the level the of grief directed at Hendrick, he's technically sound and has actually put in a few decent performances under Kenny. He's far from our biggest problem.

We need another forward on the pitch now for sure, Idah needs some help. If Robinson isn't able to play more than 30 minutes then Parrott.

That's a fair assessment. The problem is that we need Jeff to be that constantly. We need the Jeff that looked a million dollars at Euro 2016. And we simply haven't had him enough.

[brine3]

That's a fair assessment. The problem is that we need Jeff to be that constantly. We need the Jeff that looked a million dollars at Euro 2016. And we simply haven't had him enough.

That's the problem though, people are always comparing 2021 Jeff Hendrick to 2016-2018 Jeff Hendrick. We should compare 2021 Jeff Hendrick to the other options available in the 2021 squad. If he still makes the team based on that criteria, then he makes the team.

[Kingdom]

He quite clearly and quickly went into coach mode with his staff after his celebration. Which he was entitled to. Give him a break FFS.

That was the first thing I noticed, they got the 4 around and went into plan-mode.
I cringed a bit with the Azeri celebration, not last night.

[Kingdom]

Kenny has played more than one formation. 541 is a good formation to play agasides who will dominate possession - we played the same in Faro.

I'd imagine we will revert to 4 3 3 against sides we will expect to have more possession against.

i suppose the idea is that playing a group of players and getting them used to international football, integrating them to the set up and hoping they get something of an upward trajectory at club level, that they will reach a particular level where they will become the side that will dominate possession. That's what I hope for and expect anyway.

We've not dominated possession against Georgia, Montenegro, Moldova, Cyprus in other managerial reigns. It's not something that has traditionally sat well with Irish teams. It takes time.

[Trequartista20]

I agree with Paul on the 'sliding doors', 'luck' thing. We're far enough into Kenny's tenure, now, to assess where he, and we, are at. And there does seem to be a rather desperate, if not outright delusional, straw-clutching amongst some within the media and sections of our support in blaming simple 'bad luck' for our ills.

You have certain incidents, or even matches where things can go against you, or like last night, very much for you. We were extremely fortunate to scrape a draw against Serbia, as exemplified by the quite farcical own goal they scored. As Kerr accurately stated, Serbia 'battered us', and we could have easily been 4 or 5 goals down by the time the Serbs inexplicably put through their own net. But we got lucky - very lucky. In other matches we have been less fortunate, where certain situations have gone against us. But, as the cliché suggests, over a period of time these things do tend to even themselves out.

And certainly Kenny has been very fortunate with how kindly treated he has been by most of the media, and fans - with a level of latitude and understanding granted to him that his predecessors can only have dreamt about.

I would say though that the loss of Robinson for these games was certainly an important, and maybe quite decisive, slice of bad luck.

Our attacking resources are so slight, and we do look a greatly more effective offensive force when he is there, as we got a glimpse of last night.

[Trequartista20]

That's a fair assessment. The problem is that we need Jeff to be that constantly. We need the Jeff that looked a million dollars at Euro 2016. And we simply haven't had him enough.

The other point about Jeff is that he's often unfairly criticised as someone who 'goes missing' or is a 'waste of a shirt'. Well, at the very least he will work hard for the team and put in a shift. Would a Dyche team ever conceivably accept anything less?

I think the big frustration with Hendrick is the suspicion that he has more ability and more to offer than he sometimes shows. And we have seen glimpses of great quality from him.