Stephen Kenny

[ontheotherhand]

I just wanted to note one thing - one of the big arguments put forward by Kenny supporters (particularly in a couple of articles I read recently on 42.ie) is that he should be given more time because he is bravely giving young talent a break, while previous managers (like Mick) stuck with experienced journeyman, thus stopping the team from being as good as it could be - this ignores the fact that Mick had little time for experimenting, yet still gave debuts to Mark Travers, Kieran O'Hara, Aaron Connolly, Josh Cullen, Lee O'Connor, Troy Parrott, Jack Byrne and, er, James Collins. He also wasted a trip to Holland to see if Dan Crowley was worth adding to the team.

Kenny had a number of friendlies and a Nations League campaign to improve the squad both in terms of personnel and playing style and, while he has continued to bring in players who will undoubtedly form a big part of our squad in the coming decade, he hasn't got them playing in a competitive manner and, at the end of the day, that's what matters.

Thanks to the development of a lot of youth over the past few years (which Kenny played a part in, TBF), we will have a great opportunity to qualify for the next Euros as we will have a mix of youth and experience, but it is vitally important that we have the correct manager. At this point I would say that Kenny is not that manager, but that he has four games to prove otherwise

That's all very fair, but for Mick blooding young players was a luxury. For Kenny it's a pure necessity. Mick had 3-4 experienced pros to call on that Kenny doesn't. Those pros are either gone or have devolved, even to the point where they can't find a club. Robbie Brady is the prime example but there's plenty more who have slid alarmingly down the leagues in what should be their prime. At this level, your best available 11 is how good you are. Comparing Mick and Kenny is also useless. We couldn't afford Mick if we wanted him.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

But you keep saying X was available to both without considering what's happened to them in the last two years. Randolph has barely played in that time; McClean and Hourihane have dropped a division - they're clearly not as good now as they were two years ago.

How did Mick do in Switzerland with that forward line which resembles a Kenny forward line?

Bottom line is our form for the past decade has been on a linear downward trend. We've just crossed the place where now Mick's draws in Georgia or narrow wins against Gibraltar are turning into worse results. This was always going to happen unfortunately.

Has Randolph's performances been any weaker under Kenny? No. Same with Hourihane and McClean. They've been poor for a long time. You can also say that Kenny has had the advantage of Dara O Shea gaining a lot of experience, same with Josh Cullen moving to Anderlecht. There are pluses and minuses for both leaving it with a very similar squad in terms of strength overall.

Mick lost that game in Switzerland but that was his only defeat. No one would be complaining if Kenny's only defeat was away to Portugal. It's the losses to Luxembourg et, the draws to Azerbaijan, the lack of organisation, poor tactical awareness, the overall incompetence.

This is why the results are getting worse than under McCarthy. Because Kenny is so far out of his depth. No other reason. McCarthy wasn't even that impressive in his latest term. Again, it shows how far back Kenny has brought us.

[pineapple stu]

Thanks to the development of a lot of youth over the past few years (which Kenny played a part in, TBF), we will have a great opportunity to qualify for the next Euros

Woah - that's...optimistic. Yes, they're a couple of years away yet, but there's plenty of players who need to move on from the "prospect" stage to where they can be considered an international class player. Some will drop away to a lower league career (I'm thinking Connolly is a prime suspect for that at the moment). In the meantime, Randolph, Coleman and Stevens will be in and around mid-30s and will surely have lost some of their effectiveness.

Has Randolph's performances been any weaker under Kenny? No. Same with Hourihane and McClean. They've been poor for a long time. You can also say that Kenny has had the advantage of Dara O Shea gaining a lot of experience, same with Josh Cullen moving to Anderlecht. There are pluses and minuses for both leaving it with a very similar squad in terms of strength overall.

Mick lost that game in Switzerland but that was his only defeat. No one would be complaining if Kenny's only defeat was away to Portugal. It's the losses to Luxembourg et, the draws to Azerbaijan, the lack of organisation, poor tactical awareness, the overall incompetence.

Randolph hasn't played for us in a year. He was left out of the current squad precisely because he hasn't been getting game time at club level. McClean was Stoke's Player of the Year in 2019/20. This yeah, he's been released and has had to drop down a division. You seem to think 30+ players exist in a stasis; they really don't.

Yes, Mick lost to Switzerland with that starting three. A 2-goal defeat, which is more than any competitive defeat Kenny has suffered (so far...) He also drew 0-0 in Georgia, who are better than Luxembourg, but not by a huge amount. The signs have been there for a long time that we were getting closer and closer to results like of late. Our scoring rate has fallen off a cliff pretty much since Keane retired. You really can't get away with attacking line-ups of Parrott/Idah/Connolly at international level.

[passinginterest]

Kenny Pros:
Players still seem to be playing for him and supporting his methods
Even in defeats and poor performances we're creating far more scoring chances and having far more shots than we did in previous regimes (analysis from nations league showed this and it has continued)
First half against Portugal was the best performance by any Irish team in a very long time
Brave in selection and giving some potentially top class prospects genuine experience
Flexible with approach to formation and tactics
Still don't conceded many goals
No heavy defeats

Kenny Cons
Poor media presence
Poor results
Too flexible with approach to formation and tactics (do the players have long enough to adapt and implement the changes he wants in the short time available)
Questionable use of subs
Discarding senior players too quickly?

Outside Factors
Natural gap in squad due to almost no players coming through between the age of early 30's and under 23
Covid disruption
Players not playing for their clubs

I still think there's potential for another campaign (unless we end up with only the one point, anything around 5 might be enough at this stage). As long as the players still seem to believe in the changes Kenny is trying to make. It's not easy, but there's no potential replacement candidates jumping out. Do we really want another old school manager who doesn't believe the players can pass it 5 yards to each other (I know some do and fair enough)? Look at the bookies lists and convince me that anyone on them would improve anything. Yes, results from now on have to pick up. Hopefully starting with at least a point tomorrow, but it's not quite the final curtain yet. If someone figures out how to put the ball in the net before the end of the campaign it changes everything.

[osarusan]

The switches made between Portugal and Azerbaijan are a real issue for me. Sure, some changes were necessary, but why switch things around and kill the attacking threat we showed there, especially Doherty and Coleman? Why not keep the shape as much as you can and tell the much the same players to go out and do the same thing against a much weaker team?

Instead he made a number of changes, some of which were just baffling frankly, and I've no idea what it would even have looked like if it had worked. We went from creating some decent chances against a very good team (albeit defensively weaker than their attack) to creating very little against a much weaker team.

And that's his tenure in a nutshell for me. Too many decisions that just don't make sense and don't work. Is he doing a better job in terms of decisions and performances now than he was at the start. Is he learning? Are the team improving?

In my opinion, no, neither of those things are happening. Certainly not as much as we can reasonably expect from the manager of our national team...maybe not at all.

[Real ale Madrid]

Kenny Pros:
Players still seem to be playing for him and supporting his methods
Even in defeats and poor performances we're creating far more scoring chances and having far more shots than we did in previous regimes (analysis from nations league showed this and it has continued)
First half against Portugal was the best performance by any Irish team in a very long time
Brave in selection and giving some potentially top class prospects genuine experience
Flexible with approach to formation and tactics
Still don't conceded many goals
No heavy defeats
Plus - He's Cheap!

One more crucial one!

[Bielsa´s irish]

I suppose the question you have to ask is - if Coleman were to look at the Ireland job and consider it, what would they see? A team on a long decline trying to squeeze something out of PL2 players or third tier loanees. Coleman's career trajectory has been weird - a great spell with Wales but he's flopped since then - but he presumably has ambitions to get back on the merry-go-round. Is the Ireland job a route back to the top? Or has it become a bit of a poisoned chalice?

(This goes for any of the suggestions btw; not just Coleman, who's an interesting call in fairness)

Bazunu positioning is inviting rivals to shoot from distance

[tetsujin1979]

And so it begins...
Commercial reality may force FAI's hand to arrest Ireland malaise under Stephen Kenny: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/...-40374119.html

I thought Kenny's contract was until the end of the year, it's actually until July.

In one of the several bizarre legacies of the Delaney years, Kenny’s deal runs until next July, midway through the next Nations League campaign. Any payoff due by the end of this series in November, or before, amounts to around €300,000.

[pineapple stu]

Wow - we appointed a new manager until what, after the original dates of the World Cup? Rather than up to the end of the qualifying campaign?

Well done Delaney there.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I say dont fire him, and make him resign if there is a heavey defeat tomorrow he must resign

[Kingdom]

McDonnell on twitter has categorically stated that his job isn't at risk after tomorrow night (online indo article). He mentions that the crowd for the friendly vs Qatar will be taken into account (that in itself is laughable).
Meanwhile OTB have a soundbyte quoting the Star and Daily Mail who say he could be sacked if we lose tomorrow night, with both Keane's, Duff, Sam Allardyce, Steven Reid and Carsley all in the picture.
That's laughable (the alternatives) and depressing.

[Diggs246]

McDonnell on twitter has categorically stated that his job isn't at risk after tomorrow night (online indo article). He mentions that the crowd for the friendly vs Qatar will be taken into account (that in itself is laughable).
Meanwhile OTB have a soundbyte quoting the Star and Daily Mail who say he could be sacked if we lose tomorrow night, with both Keane's, Duff, Sam Allardyce, Steven Reid and Carsley all in the picture.
That's laughable (the alternatives) and depressing.

If we have no funds circa 500k, I would take a chance on lee carsley, if we have extra funds circa 1m how about Chris Wilder?
Remember the Euro is easier to get to and may be attractive

[Bielsa´s irish]

McDonnell on twitter has categorically stated that his job isn't at risk after tomorrow night (online indo article). He mentions that the crowd for the friendly vs Qatar will be taken into account (that in itself is laughable).
Meanwhile OTB have a soundbyte quoting the Star and Daily Mail who say he could be sacked if we lose tomorrow night, with both Keane's, Duff, Sam Allardyce, Steven Reid and Carsley all in the picture.
That's laughable (the alternatives) and depressing.

the list arent great. we need an experienced guy

[seanfhear]

McDonnell on twitter has categorically stated that his job isn't at risk after tomorrow night (online indo article). He mentions that the crowd for the friendly vs Qatar will be taken into account (that in itself is laughable).
Meanwhile OTB have a soundbyte quoting the Star and Daily Mail who say he could be sacked if we lose tomorrow night, with both Keane's, Duff, Sam Allardyce, Steven Reid and Carsley all in the picture.
That's laughable (the alternatives) and depressing.

I doubt Carsley would leave the England U21’s for what we have now = = That would be a big gamble. Look at what Southgate got out of being the English FA’s, Yes Man and being in the right place at the right time.

So Steven Reid out of that list but he has never been a Manager so if the Kenny experiment ends soon they ( the FAI ) are hardly going to gamble on a man that has never been a Manager.

[sadloserkid]

I can't see Lee Carsley leaving his current gig for our job even if it does come up. I'd like it to happen but I think if fan goggles are removed it's not an overly attractive proposition at the moment.

[seanfhear]

If we have no funds circa 500k, I would take a chance on lee carsley, if we have extra funds circa 1m how about Chris Wilder?
Remember the Euro is easier to get to and may be attractive

Certainly a better shout out than the others on Kingdom’s list.

[ifk101]

Not to advocate Robbie Keane, but he has already been paid by the FAI to do a job that he has yet to do.

[seanfhear]

I think the FAI and Kenny should be thinking goodbye by mutual consent if it goes pear-shaped again, v Serbia. Pay Kenny Up and off.

[pineapple stu]

Not to advocate Robbie Keane, but he has already been paid by the FAI to do a job that he has yet to do.

I suppose if we sack Kenny and appoint Keane, then what we have is a position where Keane is the manager and Kenny is being paid to to a job that he's not doing.

Which sounds an utterly perfect FAI solution...

[John83]

I think the FAI and Kenny should be thinking goodbye by mutual consent if it goes pear-shaped again, v Serbia. Pay Kenny Up and off.

I expect a moral victory (i.e. a defeat) against Serbia, which won't put any more pressure on him. He'll have to lose badly to feel more pressure than he already is, and that's maybe unlikely as we are inclined to do well enough defending against better teams.