Stephen Kenny

[Insidetherock]

Why do people keep saying "we don't have the players to play the ball on the ground"?

Seriously?

How true can this be?

Any youngster playing pro football in England has excelled right through underage, and managed to get himself a contract to play. They can play football

We've Duffy, Egan, Coleman, Doherty, Hendrick, Connolly, Idah, Omabomidele, starting.. all Premier League footballers, regardless of whether they're regular starters, or playing with "top clubs".. they're Premier League players

They can play ball.

In my opinion, we're in transition.. and damn its hard. But we're going to have to do it sometime.

If we finish this campaign with 3-4 players as pretty well certain starters eg Idah, Connolly, Cullen, Bazunu.. then we can add them to Duffy, Egan, Doherty, Coleman and have the nucleus of a team for the next 2-3 campaigns

But a transition has to start somewhere

[Colbert Report]

I'm all in favour of a better domestic league. I can't imagine it being any more of a joke than it is right now. For a whole host of reasons, the domestic league has gone backwards, not forwards, over the last ten years. When was the last time we had a player who played for a LOI club actually make an impact for the international team? Has it ever happened? Anyone good enough to play professional football is snapped up by a British club as early as possible. I think Bazunu was sixteen when he went to Manchester City.

Keith Fahey is about the only player I can remember that was good enough for the international team, and he only chose to play in the LOI for personal reasons, despite being good enough to play in England. Damien Duff came back for a cup of coffee before retiring. Kevin Doyle moved to Reading sixteen years ago, and Seamus Coleman twelve years ago. All the rest of the so-called LOI superstars have failed to make any kind of impact outside of Ireland, and some mid-table team in Cyprus just released Jack Byrne because he wasn't good enough to play for them. Richie Towell couldn't make it in non-league football in England. Michael Duffy couldn't make it playing non-league football in Scotland. Sean McGuire can't even get a call up to the national squad. Daryl Horgan is a benchwarmer at Wycombe. These are all PFAI Players' Player of the Year winners! Maybe putting a manager in charge from a league of that kind of caliber wasn't the best idea.

[brine3]

Coleman will be 33 next month.

[pineapple stu]

This is the team v Denmark:

Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Browne, Hendrick, Whelan, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

Is that really any stronger than what Kenny has? McGoldrick yes but Ireland's best player is Seamus Coleman and he was missing.

Is Steven's any better than Doherty? Is Whelan any better than Cullen? Is McGuire better than Idah? Most would say the opposite.

I think it is stronger.

Doherty played both games so you can't compare him with Stevens. Maguire didn't start so it's not reasonable to compare to Idah.

Randolph and McGoldrick are better than Bazunu and Parrott. Idah and Connolly would both weaken than Mick team but I can't see who he had up front. Maybe he played a more pragmatic formation. McClean is not the player he was. That's half the team.

It's mostly our attacking players who are getting weaker and that's what we're seeing - we're not conceding that many, but we're scoring less than ever.

Again, I don't disagree that Kenny is not as good a manager as Mick. But the players are weaker

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I think it is stronger.

Doherty played both games so you can't compare him with Stevens. Maguire didn't start so it's not reasonable to compare to Idah.

Randolph and McGoldrick are better than Bazunu and Parrott. Idah and Connolly would both weaken than Mick team but I can't see who he had up front. Maybe he played a more pragmatic formation. McClean is not the player he was. That's half the team.

It's mostly our attacking players who are getting weaker and that's what we're seeing - we're not conceding that many, but we're scoring less than ever.

Again, I don't disagree that Kenny is not as good a manager as Mick. But the players are weaker

Randolph better than Bazunu, yes. The defence for Kenny was stronger as Coleman is better than Stevens. Midfield available for Kenny is better as Cullen is superior to Whelan. McClean was not on good form then either, Connolly about equal and Kenny had Robbinson on the bench. McGoldrick better than Idah. So overall about the same level of team.

Kenny one win in 15 against Andorra. McCarthy one defeat in 10 against Switzerland.

[sadloserkid]

I'm all in favour of a better domestic league. I can't imagine it being any more of a joke than it is right now. For a whole host of reasons, the domestic league has gone backwards, not forwards, over the last ten years. When was the last time we had a player who played for a LOI club actually make an impact for the international team? Has it ever happened? Anyone good enough to play professional football is snapped up by a British club as early as possible. I think Bazunu was sixteen when he went to Manchester City.

Keith Fahey is about the only player I can remember that was good enough for the international team, and he only chose to play in the LOI for personal reasons, despite being good enough to play in England. Damien Duff came back for a cup of coffee before retiring. Kevin Doyle moved to Reading sixteen years ago, and Seamus Coleman twelve years ago. All the rest of the so-called LOI superstars have failed to make any kind of impact outside of Ireland, and some mid-table team in Cyprus just released Jack Byrne because he wasn't good enough to play for them. Richie Towell couldn't make it in non-league football in England. Michael Duffy couldn't make it playing non-league football in Scotland. Sean McGuire can't even get a call up to the national squad. Daryl Horgan is a benchwarmer at Wycombe. These are all PFAI Players' Player of the Year winners! Maybe putting a manager in charge from a league of that kind of caliber wasn't the best idea.

Where your witless, plastic, soccerball theory falls down though is that there were zero LOI players on the pitch against Azerbaijan but lots and lots from the British system that you're so in thrall too. It's not the fault of any of the players that weren't there. There were 4 players from the third tier of English football on the pitch, that's a very low water mark for us as a nation. You seem completely wedded to a linear theory that every player at a certain level is better than every player at a level below.

I think Kenny should go, for whatever that's worth, but thinking that somehow delegitimises the whole league moves the whole weird, sweaty theory of yours way beyond uninformed and into the realms of profoundly lacking even a basic grasp on how the game works. And if you think that simply replacing Kenny is going to turn us into a competitive outfit with a click of the fingers... well that would pretty much match what I'd expect to be honest.

Instead you're spewing inane tactical revelations as though you're Guardiola and Klopp all rolled into on, using a single goalkeeper error (from a Northern Irish international as it happens) as your silver bullet to write off the domestic league. Presumably when Taibi happened you dismissed the Premier League just as fervently. I suspect, as a self-proclaimed Championship afficionado, that you were prattling on in just as tiresome a fashion on a Stoke City website somewhere warning them off Michael O'Neill too.

I'll reiterate, again, that I'm not even a little bit pro-Kenny and there isn't a player in the LOI today that I'd have in the Irish squad currently if everybody was fit but you're shockingly, hilariously fond of a baseless, sweeping statement.

[pineapple stu]

Randolph better than Bazunu, yes. The defence for Kenny was stronger as Coleman is better than Stevens. Midfield available for Kenny is better as Cullen is superior to Whelan. McClean was not on good form then either, Connolly about equal and Kenny had Robbinson on the bench. McGoldrick better than Idah. So overall about the same level of team.

Kenny one win in 15 against Andorra. McCarthy one defeat in 10 against Switzerland.

Defence isn't our problem though. McClean was far better then than now. Connolly about equal with who? Connolly is rubbish. Connolly/Idah/Parrott are toothless kids up front, so goals have dropped off a bit from Mick's time, that puts us under more pressure defensively, and we've crossed a key balance point between the two which we've been saying for years would come. So not the same level of team for me.

The bigger issue of course remains the disaster of a domestic football structure, which we're really starting to struggle from now. There's been slight improvements lately with underage academies, but we're still far behind most of Europe. Kenny is a sideshow compared to that - albeit, as I say, there are legitimate questions about him too.

But this is a perfect storm of a multitude of issues

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Defence isn't our problem though. McClean was far better then than now. Connolly about equal with who? Connolly is rubbish. Connolly/Idah/Parrott are toothless kids up front, so goals have dropped off a bit from Mick's time, that puts us under more pressure defensively, and we've crossed a key balance point between the two which we've been saying for years would come. So not the same level of team for me.

The bigger issue of course remains the disaster of a domestic football structure, which we're really starting to struggle from now. There's been slight improvements lately with underage academies, but we're still far behind most of Europe. Kenny is a sideshow compared to that - albeit, as I say, there are legitimate questions about him too.

But this is a perfect storm of a multitude of issues

McCarthy started games with this rubbish Connolly. McClean has been rubbish for a good few years. McCarthy had Whelan, Hendrick and Hourihan in his midfield selections. Games with Long up front. Even McGoldrick only ever scored one goal for Ireland. McCarthy and Kenny's squads were equally as toothless. The myth that Kenny has a weaker squad than McCarthy is just another attempt to excuse Kenny.

Yes, there are loads of major issues to fix but Kenny isn't the solution to any of them.

[pineapple stu]

Connolly didn't play v Denmark. I don't know why you're bringing him in here.

I agree with your conclusion, but our squad is definitely weaker now. Shane Long under Mick was a Premier League regular. He and McGoldrick weren't banging in the goals, but they were better than what we have now.

[Bielsa´s irish]

The main responsable is Kenny. He picks up the team. Mindset etc. Some of his decisions are odd. I like youngsters but as Kerr said not all at the same time.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Connolly didn't play v Denmark. I don't know why you're bringing him in here.

I agree with your conclusion, but our squad is definitely weaker now. Shane Long under Mick was a Premier League regular. He and McGoldrick weren't banging in the goals, but they were better than what we have now.

We're comparing what McCarthy had available to Kenny and it clearly isn't a drop off at all. Mainly because they're mostly the same players. Kenny has had Long available, he even had McGoldrick. He has had better defensive options, better midfield options and some players with potential coming through. If anything, Kenny has had a stronger selection to pick from.

McCarthy was lambasted during his tenure despite actually being competitive. Kenny has us bottom of the table and he's getting off very lightly.

[SkStu]

He made three big selection mistakes yesterday.

1. Playing a front three instead of 2 plus an attacking midfielder (compounded by not playing Parrott where he plays best).
2. Changing the wing backs (compounded by playing McClean) instead of just giving them license to attack and keeping Omobamidele.
3. Starting Molumby ahead of Hendrick.

He did not manage the game well at all in the first half. Why it took to h/t to recharge the team is unforgivable and cost us a stupid goal that made the task in the second half close to insurmountable given how the Azeris were set up.

We did play well in the second half and created more than enough chances to win building well in possession to create crossing opportunities. The players are playing for him; they’re buying in and listening. He can be credited for the turnaround but can’t be blamed for the missed chances.

While Portugal was a whole bunch of check marks in the plus column and very few negatives, last night was the opposite. A bad showing from him.

Tough to see how he can win people over from here so his goose is cooked now in reality, no matter what. I personally still give him the rest of this campaign and possibly the right to start the next campaign depending on the remaining games and results. Sacking him and replacing him now changes very little in the grand scheme. We’re a team in transition with a paucity of viable players; very few are getting games for their clubs; there’s no one being left out that really changes our strength in a meaningful way. Our problems and prospects go far beyond Kenny being the manager or not.

[paul_oshea]

On the McCarthy v Kenny thing I think it's very unfair on McCarthy he had a year or so and he had a particular job which was in situ for Kenny. His mandate was qualify for the euros at all costs. So he setup the best way and safebet to get the best possible results out of what he had available. So comparing is unfair given how poor and short time he had with the players. There's absolutely no comparison between what he achieved in a similar time frame to Kenny

I think you can only compare his first tenure which were under similar circumstances.

[pineapple stu]

We're comparing what McCarthy had available to Kenny and it clearly isn't a drop off at all. Mainly because they're mostly the same players. Kenny has had Long available, he even had McGoldrick. He has had better defensive options, better midfield options and some players with potential coming through. If anything, Kenny has had a stronger selection to pick from.

McCarthy was lambasted during his tenure despite actually being competitive. Kenny has us bottom of the table and he's getting off very lightly.

No, you were specifically comparing the Denmark line-up (and went so far as to list it). Connolly didn't play in that.

Long was a Premier League regular two years ago; now he's past it. I think he's only in the squad out of desperation. You can't compare Shane Long of today and of 2019 and say they're the same player. They are in name only - but not in ability.

"If anything, Kenny has had a stronger selection to pick from" - no, he hasn't. In nets and up front, we are significantly weaker. You've acknowledged the keeper. Parrott/Connolly/Idah is the worst front line we've ever had. "Players with potential coming through" - that's what the U21s are for, not the senior squad. "Players with potential" are worth **** all at senior international level

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

No, you were specifically comparing the Denmark line-up (and went so far as to list it). Connolly didn't play in that.

Long was a Premier League regular two years ago; now he's past it. I think he's only in the squad out of desperation. You can't compare Shane Long of today and of 2019 and say they're the same player. They are in name only - but not in ability.

"If anything, Kenny has had a stronger selection to pick from" - no, he hasn't. In nets and up front, we are significantly weaker. You've acknowledged the keeper. Parrott/Connolly/Idah is the worst front line we've ever had. "Players with potential coming through" - that's what the U21s are for, not the senior squad. "Players with potential" are worth **** all at senior international level

I picked the Denmark game as an example. We have been discussing the strength of the squads and the options available to both. Shane Long didn't play any games under McCarthy. So I don't know what your 2019 point is all about?

Randolph has been around throughout Kenny's tenure so keeper has been equal. Defensive options are stronger under Kenny, as are midfield options. McGoldrick is the only player McCarthy had available who's stronger and Kenny had him available for a short while also. There was a number of games where James Collins was the striker under McCarthy as McGoldrick wasn't available. In fact, against Switzerland away our front 3 was Collins, McClean and the 'rubbish' Connolly. That might just challenge your worst front line we've ever had claim.

Looking at the facts, the squads available to both are and were very similar in standard. Trying to claim otherwise is just ridiculous. McCarthy's record was played 10, won 5, drew 4, lost 1. Kenny's is played 15, won 1, drew 7, lost 7.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Yes with the results here the Kenny tenure is an unsustainable situation tbh. thats why the national team is bigger than any coach or player. When Jack Charlton couldnt take his ageing key players to the Italia 90 world cup was because one was injured ( Tony Galvin) and the other one fell out with him (Liam Brady) Charlton actually he replaced Brady with Ronnie Whelan the problem was Ronnie Whelan got injured just before the world cup. He took Stapleton but he regretted because he wanted to play.

National team interest is more vital and important than any coach or any footballer .

The new coach has to be someone with passion who plays attractive footie and a motivator like Mark Hughes or maybe Eddie Howe

Lennon has the passion though but not so sure, the rest of the names are almost retired

[pineapple stu]

But you keep saying X was available to both without considering what's happened to them in the last two years. Randolph has barely played in that time; McClean and Hourihane have dropped a division - they're clearly not as good now as they were two years ago.

How did Mick do in Switzerland with that forward line which resembles a Kenny forward line?

Bottom line is our form for the past decade has been on a linear downward trend. We've just crossed the place where now Mick's draws in Georgia or narrow wins against Gibraltar are turning into worse results. This was always going to happen unfortunately.

[brine3]

Bottom line is our form for the past decade has been on a linear downward trend.

It's tightly correlated with the increase in transfer fees in England. With all the big money in English football at the moment, they can buy all the stars of the world. The English clubs make sure their best English prospects get starts, but there's less and less room for the young Irish, who get turned into Championship loan cannon fodder. Imagine Paul McGrath or Ronnie Whelan being loan players at Preston until the age of 23. They wouldn't be the same players. Roy Keane went from LOI First Division Cobh Ramblers straight into the first team at Forest, who were in the top tier at the time. It doesn't work like that any more.

So we need to stop haemorrhaging players to England. That involves improving LOI and Irish youth structures, and also encouraging players who feel they have outgrown Ireland to look at places like Spain, Italy, France, Holland, where tactical and technical development is encouraged. And in some leagues, like Spain (and Italy I think) there is a limit of non-EU players in a team, so Irish players can use their EU status to their advantage.

[ontheotherhand]

Where your witless, plastic, soccerball theory falls down though is that there were zero LOI players on the pitch against Azerbaijan but lots and lots from the British system that you're so in thrall too. It's not the fault of any of the players that weren't there. There were 4 players from the third tier of English football on the pitch, that's a very low water mark for us as a nation. You seem completely wedded to a linear theory that every player at a certain level is better than every player at a level below.

I think Kenny should go, for whatever that's worth, but thinking that somehow delegitimises the whole league moves the whole weird, sweaty theory of yours way beyond uninformed and into the realms of profoundly lacking even a basic grasp on how the game works. And if you think that simply replacing Kenny is going to turn us into a competitive outfit with a click of the fingers... well that would pretty much match what I'd expect to be honest.

Instead you're spewing inane tactical revelations as though you're Guardiola and Klopp all rolled into on, using a single goalkeeper error (from a Northern Irish international as it happens) as your silver bullet to write off the domestic league. Presumably when Taibi happened you dismissed the Premier League just as fervently. I suspect, as a self-proclaimed Championship afficionado, that you were prattling on in just as tiresome a fashion on a Stoke City website somewhere warning them off Michael O'Neill too.

I'll reiterate, again, that I'm not even a little bit pro-Kenny and there isn't a player in the LOI today that I'd have in the Irish squad currently if everybody was fit but you're shockingly, hilariously fond of a baseless, sweeping statement.

I think he is trying to play a satirical character who attempts to be funny by taking contrarian, ridiculous, easily debunked, nonsensical opinions. I think he's trying to be the foot.ie version of Stephen Colbert from the tv show that he took his name from. If not...well....best ignored either way really.

[samhaydenjr]

I just wanted to note one thing - one of the big arguments put forward by Kenny supporters (particularly in a couple of articles I read recently on 42.ie) is that he should be given more time because he is bravely giving young talent a break, while previous managers (like Mick) stuck with experienced journeyman, thus stopping the team from being as good as it could be - this ignores the fact that Mick had little time for experimenting, yet still gave debuts to Mark Travers, Kieran O'Hara, Aaron Connolly, Josh Cullen, Lee O'Connor, Troy Parrott, Jack Byrne and, er, James Collins. He also wasted a trip to Holland to see if Dan Crowley was worth adding to the team.

Kenny had a number of friendlies and a Nations League campaign to improve the squad both in terms of personnel and playing style and, while he has continued to bring in players who will undoubtedly form a big part of our squad in the coming decade, he hasn't got them playing in a competitive manner and, at the end of the day, that's what matters.

Thanks to the development of a lot of youth over the past few years (which Kenny played a part in, TBF), we will have a great opportunity to qualify for the next Euros as we will have a mix of youth and experience, but it is vitally important that we have the correct manager. At this point I would say that Kenny is not that manager, but that he has four games to prove otherwise