Overlooked players

**Fixer82** · 30/05/2020, 4:45 PM

What players were criminally overlooked for Ireland?
Players who got little or no caps, not through injury but due to the manager not fancying them.

Andy Reid and Hoolahan are obvious ones to have been ignored for long periods of time but both got more than a handful.

Off the top of my head, Rory Delap stands out as a player who was consistently ignored despite being a consistent performer in EPL. And one with a magic throw-in too.
I remember him scoring a brace against Arsenal, including an overhead bicycle kick iirc and being snubbed for international call up three days later.

**seanfhear** · 30/05/2020, 5:30 PM

I was going to say Rory Delap myself even before i got to him in your post. Look what Iceland did with those type of Throw Ins !

If Rory had been around in Jack Charlton's time I’d say Rory would have a lot of Caps if even just off the bench !

I certainly would have in the squad and at least on the bench much more than he was !

**pineapple stu** · 30/05/2020, 5:48 PM

Yeah, Delap was always a strange one. We've rarely been in a position where we could overlook Premier League regulars.

Graham Kavanagh was a good grafter, but he was maybe more unlucky in that he was competing against Keane, Kinsella and Holland in centre-mid.

Dave O'Leary of course!

I don't think we've had too many though. Scotland, by comparison, seem to have loads for some reason. Alan Hansen, Brian McClair, John Wark, Pat Nevin, Steve Archibald, Lou Macari, Alan Gilzean, Ian St John, Pat Crerand, Gary Gillespie, Graeme Sharp, Alan McInally, Duncan Ferguson - none got more than 30 caps, and most got a good few less. Archibald got 27 caps but spent three years at Barcelona. Crerand got 16 caps but played in the 1968 European Cup final. McInally spent four years at Bayern but only got 8 caps. I think our efforts will pale in comparison with the Scots!

**irishfan86** · 30/05/2020, 5:55 PM

Doherty the best contemporary example, but I suspect that�s about to change.

I thought Keiren Westwood should have got a lot more caps � I appreciate there were injury and perhaps attitude/commitment issues but he was the natural heir to Shay, no disrespect to David Forde.

**pineapple stu** · 30/05/2020, 6:05 PM

Always tough for keepers I guess, but yeah, with a lot more friendlies these days, there should be scope for more experimenting

**seanfhear** · 30/05/2020, 6:08 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Yeah, Delap was always a strange one. We've rarely been in a position where we could overlook Premier League regulars.

Graham Kavanagh was a good grafter, but he was maybe more unlucky in that he was competing against Keane, Kinsella and Holland in centre-mid.

Dave O'Leary of course!

I don't think we've had too many though. Scotland, by comparison, seem to have loads for some reason. Alan Hansen, Brian McClair, John Wark, Pat Nevin, Steve Archibald, Lou Macari, Alan Gilzean, Ian St John, Pat Crerand, Gary Gillespie, Graeme Sharp, Alan McInally, Duncan Ferguson - none got more than 30 caps, and most got a good few less. Archibald got 27 caps but spent three years at Barcelona. Crerand got 16 caps but played in the 1968 European Cup final. McInally spent four years at Bayern but only got 8 caps. I think our efforts will pale in comparison with the Scots!

I think the Alan Hansen was Liverpool doing a Man Utd before Man Utd did it. Did Hansen actually make himself available for Scotland all that much ? ?

Archibald , again was he making himself available for Scotland during a lot of that time ?

Alan McInally got a serious injury and that may have affected him making himself available. He looked some Prospect before it all went Pete Tong.

Ian Durrant of Rangers is another one. This one is probably entirely through Injury.

For a Small Country like Scotland to lose two such prospects at such an early age to injury was particularly Bad Luck ! !

It goes to show the quality of players Scotland had in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s maybe a bit into the 90’s that a lot of the time there was no big Hurrah about some of them not playing for Scotland. Scotland had replacements not that far behind them !

Kenny Daglish did play quite a lot for Scotland but did not do all that much for Scotland (if I recall correctly ). I wonder was he under instructions from Liverpool or self instructed not to get injured playing for Scotland ! !

**pineapple stu** · 30/05/2020, 6:30 PM

I've no idea why those got so few caps. It could be as you say, just not making themselves available. I'd be interested to know more. It's a heck of a lot of players to lose.

McInally had injuries, true, but 8 caps is nothing for a guy at Bayern. .

Archibald won the league with Aberdeen without being capped. Then all his caps were in a six-year spell at Spurs and Barca. Was still a Barca player when his international career ended.

Dalglish is Scotland's top scorer, so harsh to accuse him of slouching I think.

**seanfhear** · 30/05/2020, 6:37 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I've no idea why those got so few caps. It could be as you say, just not making themselves available. McInally had injuries, true, but 8 caps is nothing for a guy at Bayern. It's a heck of a lot of players to lose though.

Dalglish is Scotland's top scorer, so harsh to accuse him of slouching I think.

30 goals in 102 caps. I just don’t ever remember seeing him playing that well for Scotland. Probably would only have seen him at World Cups. If I recall it was not considered that he had played that well for Scotland. Maybe the expectation was too high !

**pineapple stu** · 30/05/2020, 6:42 PM

Just looking into the Hansen thing there - suggestions that Ferguson preferred his Aberdeen centre-back pairing at international level too (McLeish and Miller), so didn't want Hansen breaking that up.

Hansen was left out of the Scotland squad for 86 - when he was Liverpool's player of the year as they won the double - and Dalglish pulled out, maybe in protest.

Suggestions also that Hansen was prone to missing friendlies, and that the Scots preferred domestic-based players to an extent (and the SPL was a good league back then of course)

So all sorts of interesting stories - but it does seem like Scotland have shot themselves in the foot a number of times in the past with regards player selections. I don't think we've anyone really to compete with that (thankfully)

**RiffRaff** · 30/05/2020, 10:08 PM

We had a few players over the years who played regularly or semi regularly in the english top flight without getting any caps - John Coady, Tommy Gaynor, Paul McGee, Derek Geary are a couple that spring to mind. Alan Campbell was very unfortunate the season he scored a lot of goals in Spain.

**Diggs246** · 30/05/2020, 11:22 PM

Matt Doherty is 28 with only 9 caps

**seanfhear** · 31/05/2020, 4:28 AM

Originally Posted by Diggs246

Matt Doherty is 28 with only 9 caps

Considering the quality of his play the last few years that seems crazy ! !

He must not have convinced Martin O’Neill and Roy Keane that he saw “ How great they Were ! "

**elatedscum** · 31/05/2020, 5:26 AM

Stephen McPhail only got 10 caps. Always thought he should have had a lot more... Earned his last cap at age 24...

**pineapple stu** · 31/05/2020, 7:51 AM

Was McPhail overlooked or did he just never reach his potential?

Spent most of his career outside the Premier League with Barnsley and Cardiff. When Cardiff were promoted, they released McPhail.

**seanfhear** · 31/05/2020, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Was McPhail overlooked or did he just never reach his potential?

Spent most of his career outside the Premier League with Barnsley and Cardiff. When Cardiff were promoted, they released McPhail.

He was one who had a very promising early career but he never lived up to that. Was it injury / something else ?

**Fixer82** · 31/05/2020, 10:29 AM

Horgan certainly deserves more caps too I feel. He never played badly in a green shirt.

**Eminence Grise** · 31/05/2020, 12:08 PM

Always felt McPhail was more suited to a continental game than English, and could have played more games abroad. Illness cost him game time, of course.

Others...

Gary Kelly (GK). Made the bench several times but never a minute of senior action.

John Anderson and Ashley Grimes didn't really see many squads after Charlton took over and both ended up with under 20 caps.

Mike Milligan - one cap wonder despite playing in the top two divisions for most of his career.

Lots of others shone briefly - Jason Gavin, Michael Reddy, Lee Power (good call on Tommy Gaynor and Derek Geary, RiffRaff) - and a few were tried and discarded pretty quickly - Ken de Mange, Liam Daish, Jon Macken, Alan Moore, Thomas Butler, Alan Mahon. Less overlooked, I suppose, than didn't take their chance.

<Edit> Could add Brian Carey to that list - capped while a Man Utd reserve before a tumble down the divisions.

**John83** · 31/05/2020, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by seanfhear

He was one who had a very promising early career but he never lived up to that. Was it injury / something else ?

He was perceived as a very technically gifted passer, but not really physically up to the challenges of central midfield. I don't know how fair that was, but it's likely he needed the right environment to make it (3 central midfielders weren't as common then), and he never found it.

**Charlie Darwin** · 01/06/2020, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by RiffRaff

We had a few players over the years who played regularly or semi regularly in the english top flight without getting any caps - John Coady, Tommy Gaynor, Paul McGee, Derek Geary are a couple that spring to mind. Alan Campbell was very unfortunate the season he scored a lot of goals in Spain.

I think Stephen Quinn played in the same team as Geary without getting a cap, and only got one a few years later when he made the step up again.

**elatedscum** · 01/06/2020, 1:18 AM

Re McPhail

He was very technically gifted, his performances for Ireland were good. I remember a friendly against Finland which was as good a Irish midfield display as I�ve ever seen. Obviously opposition and importance of game reduce how you�d rate it but he was superb.

He grew up in an upper premier league environment. He went down two divisions to play regular football but it was a totally different game and he had to adapt to an environment where no one else was playing football and he was getting lumps kicked out of him. He did adapt but it took about a year.

But he was one of the best midfielders in the championship for a few years and he captained an upper championship side. Eventually he got ill, I think, lymphoma - which was a career altering illness and led to him being released by Cardiff when they were promoted to the premier league.

It�s often the case that good players get forgotten in the championship, or at least it was in the olden days when highlights were harder to come by. Wes only got into the irish team cause the public saw him on MOTD. Matt Doherty too - he was cracking in the championship for years but there�s far less eyes on you.

Anyway, there were plenty of players much less talented than him who were part of the set-up.

It�s also true he never reached his potential. He�s probably someone who could have blossomed had he played for that Reading side under Coppell or someone like that...