Belgium V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 18th June 2016 - Euro 2016 Group E

[DannyInvincible]

I'm pretty sure Congo and Kenya aren't French colonies.

There doesn't need to be any cultural reasons for egotistical footballers to be at each other's throats when they are holed up together like this.

Look at Wesley Sneijder and Robin Van Persie as a textbook example.

Besides De Bruyne and Courtouis have more personal reasons for hating each other.

Don't see the connection between my opinion on the granny rule and this either TBH.

But social/cultural/political differences can obviously be a factor in conflict or division. As with everything, it wouldn't be black and white. There can be nuance and multiple factors at play. You continually overlook the fact that multiple factors can contribute to something at once for some reason.

In what sense is De Bruyne half-English? As far as I can make out, his mother, a Flem who was born in Burundi, lived in London for a number of years after her father (also a Flem) moved there to work. She then moved to Belgium when she met De Bruyne's father, who isn't English either, to the best of my knowledge.

[Fixer82]

Sitting in airport bar having a pint on my own waiting for a delayed flight. Give us a shout if you're here. Navy jacket. Paul McGrath tshirt. I'll buy you a pint (Mi wadi)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It is conjecture bottom line to say that the alleged problems in the Belgian camp are due to an ethnic conflict.

What is without doubt is that the team are on the verge of mutiny due to their manager's tactics; what Courtouis referred tp.

I was also simply pointing out that Benteke, Origi and Lukaku have no connections to France as their origin countries are not French colonies, which Bonnie seemed to apply; or maybe I am misinterpreting that like people seem to be misinterpreting my post?

How on earth anything I said in my original post has anything to do with the eligibility rule is utterly beyond me.

And you know Northern Irish of Asian and African heritage who support ROI? I know Northern Irish of Italian Catholic descent who support Rangers, not to mention the loyalists from Egyptian Muslim heritage.

All free to support whatever cause they wish. No relevance to what I had originally posted!

[backstothewall]

Not that I don'the find this chat about the intricacies of relations between the Flemish and Wallonia absolutely fascinating, but do the reasons why they have fallen out really matter? The good news from our perspective is that there seem to be problem behind the scenes.

I'd play Murphy myself. We have been getting results with a well settled system and Belgium seem to have problems dealing with the sort of balls we would be playing up to him. On that basis and on the back of a good performance against Sweden i'd make as little change as possible and put Murphy in as a straight swap for Walters

[DannyInvincible]

I think McClean will come in instead of Walters. That seems to be the talk around the team as well, no? Would be really surprised if Murphy started, but he has started big games before, so may be foolish to rule it out completely.

It is conjecture bottom line to say that the alleged problems in the Belgian camp are due to an ethnic conflict.

Sure, nobody is saying it isn't anything other than conjecture. But it is reasoned or reasonable conjecture. We're simply doing what people do on discussion forums; discussing possibilities and theories. Cultural estrangement or even linguistic separation between those from the two groups within the squad is at least a possibility, if not a probability, as division/tension/suspicion is a feature of Belgian political, religious and public life. There was talk of the country being partitioned a few years ago, if I recall correctly. It'd be entirely possible that that deeply-embedded feature of Belgian life passes through to their national football team. You can't just completely rule out the possibility, which is what you were doing.

I was also simply pointing out that Benteke, Origi and Lukaku have no connections to France as their origin countries are not French colonies, which Bonnie seemed to apply; or maybe I am misinterpreting that like people seem to be misinterpreting my post?

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but are their origins Congolese, as in former Belgian Congo, which was Francophone on account of Belgian-Wallonian influence? Hence, Bonnie's reference to speaking French, I would assume? The fact their families would have been Francophone surely would have aided integration into or connection with Wallonia rather than Dutch/Germanic Flanders.

Wallonia is also more welcoming of immigrants, according to this 2008 BBC piece, which makes some other interesting and relevant observations: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7666514.stm

When Natasha Biryukova arrived in Liege from Moscow in 1995, she was shocked to find out that her new homeland was not really Belgium, but rather French-speaking Wallonia.

"I came from the former USSR, and knew how people lived in Uzbekistan thousands of miles away," she says.

"But now, when I turn on my TV I only know what's happening in Wallonia."

She said people there know nothing about the lives of their Flemish neighbours just a few miles north.

Ms Biryukova is not alone. Immigrants settling in Belgium end up on either side of a fault line that baffles many.

"Foreigners did not study Belgian history at school - whether they are in Wallonia or Flanders, for them, this is Belgium," says Palestinian-born Hamdan al Damiri of Cripel, an immigrant centre in Liege.

And you know Northern Irish of Asian and African heritage who support ROI? I know Northern Irish of Italian Catholic descent who support Rangers, not to mention the loyalists from Egyptian Muslim heritage.

The point I was making is that the lads I know of Ghanaian or Indian heritage support Ireland as they were raised within an Irish nationalist community/culture/social environment where supporting Ireland is the norm. Their national identity has obviously been influenced by the expressed identity of their surrounding community.

The Shoukri brothers (who I assume you're referring to when you talk of Egyptian loyalists, although they were Coptic Christians) were raised within the loyalist community, so naturally that influenced their cultural and political affiliations. This all backs up Bonnie's point - that a "host culture" will culturally/politically influence its "subjects" - rather than your point, which seemed to be that the social, political or cultural environment was completely irrelevant.

As an interesting aside, the term "wal" is a Germanic word roughly denoting "non-German speaking" or "Celt speaker". From it are derived place-names like Wales, Cornwall, Wallonia, Wallachia and surnames like Wallace and Walsh

[pineapple stu]

As an interesting aside, the term "wal" is a Germanic word roughly denoting "non-German speaking" or "Celt speaker". From it are derived place-names like Wales, Cornwall, Wallonia, Wallachia and surnames like Wallace and Walsh

Just to add to that, this last (Walsh) is pronounced "Welsh" in many parts of Ireland, and the Irish is Breathnach - literally, a Welsh person.

[DannyInvincible]

Just to add to that, this last (Walsh) is pronounced "Welsh" in many parts of Ireland, and the Irish is Breathnach - literally, a Welsh person.

I've always assumed 'Breathnach' is related to Brittonic or Brythonic, which is the Celtic branch from which Welsh is an off-shoot, along with Cornish and Breton. Is that correct? Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx, on the other hand, are from the Goidelic Celtic branch, of course.

Cue tets scolding us off to the current affairs forum!

[pineapple stu]

Quite possible - the Irish for Wales is "An Bhreatain Bheag", or Little Britain.

Great Britain is "Great" to distinguish it from Brittany. (Obviously the Irish saw a different Little Britain) So a definite connection there.

I think the initial Walshes in Ireland came from Wales, hence the name.

Edit - wiki agrees with both of us -

Walsh is a common Irish surname, meaning "Briton" or "foreigner", literally "Welshman", taken to Ireland by British (Welsh, Cornish and Cumbrian) soldiers during and after the Norman invasion of Ireland. It is most common in County Mayo and County Kilkenny. It is the fourth most common surname in Ireland, and the 265th most common in the United States. There are variants including "Walshe", "Welsh", "Brannagh", and "Breathnach". Walsh is uncommon as a given name. The name is often pronounced "Welsh" in the south and west of the country.

[Deckydee]

Fellaini, Nainggolan, Lukaku, Benteke, Origi, Carrasco, Dembele and Witsel off the top of my head aren't ethnically French (Walloon) or Dutch (Flemish) so why would it matter to them?

De Bruyne is half-English on top of that.

I'd also love to know on what grounds Belgium think they can be so arrogant; what have they accomplished in football?

Italy too. We have faced them how many times over the last 20 odd years and the games have been evenly matched every time.

They're both equally deluded.

In saying that, I think we will probably end up getting one point from these two games.

It amazes me the disrespect shown by the Belgians towards the Irish. Again going back to my original post, the paper last week had NOTHING about the irish but had almost a page dedicated to the Italians!. Todays paper gives the usual happy irish craic but lets show them.

This is the remark: https://twitter.com/HLNinEngeland/st...82767494385665

[texidub]

It amazes me the disrespect shown by the Belgians towards the Irish. Again going back to my original post, the paper last week had NOTHING about the irish but had almost a page dedicated to the Italians!. Todays paper gives the usual happy irish craic but lets show them.

This is the remark: https://twitter.com/HLNinEngeland/st...82767494385665

Hopefully it backfires on them big time. Will only motivate our team anyway..

[ramondo]

Not that I don'the find this chat about the intricacies of relations between the Flemish and Wallonia absolutely fascinating, but do the reasons why they have fallen out really matter? The good news from our perspective is that there seem to be problem behind the scenes.

I'd play Murphy myself. We have been getting results with a well settled system and Belgium seem to have problems dealing with the sort of balls we would be playing up to him. On that basis and on the back of a good performance against Sweden i'd make as little change as possible and put Murphy in as a straight swap for Walters

Team in-fighting is usually an explanation for a poor performance AFTER a game. Hoping that the Belgians won't turn up 100% committed based on these rumours is somewhat optimistic - a win would put them in a decent position to get to the next round.

They have the better team, so better to concentrate on how to deal with the big threat they pose, I would say. And let's try to forget Raul Nazare (for anyone who grew up in the 80s).

[Colbert Report]

Conte confirms he'll be playing the stiffs against Ireland. Huge incentive for us now to get a good result tomorrow.

I reckon all the "fringe" players will use the opportunity against Ireland to try to play their way into the starting XI for the first knockout round. I think we have to beat Belgium to have any hope of progressing. We really needed to beat Sweden, I can't see any realistic way we get out of this group, especially with our best player ruled out through injury and Wes Hoolahan being so old. He really shouldn't start tomorrow, how much gas can be left in those legs?

[Philly]

Belgium line-up: Courtois; Meunier, Alderweireld, Vermaelen, Vertonghen*; Witsel, Dembélé; Carrasco, De Bruyne, Hazard; Lukaku.

[DannyInvincible]

Belgium line-up, according to Belgian journalist Kristof Terreur on Twitter: Courtois; Meunier, Alderweireld, Vermaelen, Vertonghen; Witsel, Dembélé; Carrasco, De Bruyne, Hazard; Lukaku.

[pineapple stu]

Belgian police foil terrorist attack on Belgium v Ireland; 12 arrested.

****. Stay safe...

[bennocelt]

Belgian police foil terrorist attack on Belgium v Ireland; 12 arrested.

****. Stay safe...

You got to be kidding me Be safe

[pineapple stu]

Looks like Belgium targetted rather than Bordeaux - maybe bars, etc, where people would be watching.

Not that that makes it any better of course...

[TrapAPony]

Randolph, Coleman, O'Shea, Clark, Ward, Whelan, McCarthy, Hendrick, Brady, Hoolahan, Long.

[shakermaker1982]

C'mon lads!

The right team. Whatever happens I don't want to hear any nonsense that McClean should have started. We need ball players today to keep the ball.

[texidub]

If anyone has an RTE link, please share.. only finding ESPN and the like online.

Optimistic for today.. COYBIG