Potentially eligible players thread

[Olé Olé]

I don't know why anyone even bothers with him on this type of stuff? He hates anyone 2G who doesn't make the Irish jersey a priority and he hates Robbie Keane who did nothing but make the Irish jersey a priority. He's a joke shop.

Exactly. It's not a black and white issue. As Brian McDermott, Andy Townsend, Martin Keown, Jack Grealish and countless, countless others can testify: this is a grey area.

Thing about football is, international representative football is an expression of identity which is underpinned by, well, football. Any 2G or 3G Irish person can go out on St. Patrick's day and absolutely slaughter a few pints of Guinness. To add some complexity to the matter, said 2G or 3G person also (prior to drinking age) happens to be a good footballer. What gives anyone the right to turn around to Mr. 2/3G and say "well you can f*ck off. We saw you wear the jersey of the country you were born in so you have another thing coming to you if you think us Paddies are going to settle for you, no matter how many dozen pints you floored last St. Patrick's day."

[DeLorean]

I don't know why anyone even bothers with him on this type of stuff? He hates anyone 2G who doesn't make the Irish jersey a priority and he hates Robbie Keane who did nothing but make the Irish jersey a priority. He's a joke shop.

Not to mention Richard Keogh, who showed 'too much' interest in representing us.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It's not a grey area at all where Nathan Redmond, Patrick Bamford, Mark Noble, Kyle Naughton, Callum Wilson and myriad others are concerned. They are completely ambivalent about playing for Ireland - at least until their hopes of playing for England fade - so I don't understand why they are given so much attention on an Irish football forum. If they declare for Ireland grand. Anyways, it's yer prerogative.

I don't think 3rd generation English players make much of a difference to our fortunes. Our best players are traditionally Irish born players and I don't think people give our talent pool enough credit. If ye think Joe Garner and Callum Wilson are the difference between us and success at a tournament - again yer prerogative.

I do understand the viewpoint that Bamford & Grealish are highly talented players but it is highly unlikely that they will play for us if they come anywhere close to fulfilling their talent.

I do respect other people's opinions. I'm not the one calling other people's opinions "stupid" and calling other people a "joke shop".

Ye all (well most of ye) make very convincing arguments and follow your convictions. I would not put this much effort into sharing my opinions if I didn't follow mine.

And lastly, it is just wrong to say I hate Robbie Keane. He is one of my favorite childhood players and one of our best ever players. There are people who value his contributions to Ireland much less than me. Just because I think he shouldn't be a guaranteed starter, hold his record to closer scrutiny and hold him accountable the same way I'd hold any other Irish player accountable doesn't mean I "hate" him.

Shay Given is also, arguably, one of our best ever players and is constantly under a microscope for "wanting to play for Ireland too much" or "selfishly" coming out of retirement.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Not to mention Richard Keogh, who showed 'too much' interest in representing us.

I understand why I get mocked for this, but what annoyed me was his moaning after not getting called up for a squad and media campaign for call ups a couple of years ago - which has died down now that he is a squad regular.

[Closed Account]

so I don't understand why they are given so much attention on an Irish football forum. If they declare for Ireland grand. Anyways, it's yer prerogative.

Without these 151 posts http://foot.ie/search.php?searchid=2888798, I don't think the subject would have much oxygen

[DannyInvincible]

You gave the impression he would want to play for Ireland as his second choice.

Where did I give such an impression? Provide a quote, preferably.

Lad, Redmond's mother said he has chosen England. The most densest person could read between the lines that he wants to play for England. You're obviously an intelligent person so IDK why you (pretend?) not to grasp that.

I know he wants to play for England. Playing for England is his priority right now. I've never disputed that. Are you under the impression I think Redmond presently wants to play for us or something? Redmond's mother did not rule out the possibility of the player playing for Ireland in the distant future though because she was commenting only on the present/immediate future, so it is completely inaccurate to suggest she "pooh-poohed" the notion of him ever playing for Ireland. It remains a future possibility regardless of her tweet and your misinterpretation/misrepresentation of it.

Patrick Bamford is also quite open about England being his first choice. If Bamford's uncles had said Bamford was choosing Ireland, perhaps it would be relevant. It's a personal decision. People can talk about malevolent interference from national organizations, managers, friends and fathers, but it has no relevance with grown men.

I wouldn't describe all that as "malevolent". People are free to try and appeal to or influence others if they wish.

You are being deliberately obtuse by bringing up that article. You know fully well that is not the article I was alluding to. I was referring to this article http://www.the42.ie/cyrus-christie-r...74306-Nov2014/ where he says that he declared for Ireland because there was less competition in his position.

Eh? I specifically referred to the quote from that article; you had mentioned it in the post in the Christie thread to which I linked you back. Of it, I stated: "He said the fact we've not got an abundance of right-backs 'was the main thing', which would also leave open the possibility of other factors having played at least some part." Did you skim carelessly over what I wrote and then decide what you thought I meant? The reason I then brought up the other article was to provide some further information to complement what you had quoted.

False dilemma? No, not interested. The reason all the players I mentioned aren't playing for Ireland right now isn't because of a "false dilemma".

I was pointing out the fallacy of your black-and-white thinking on this matter; not attempting to explain why certain players might or might not be playing for Ireland.

I wouldn't read anything into himself describing himself as half Irish and half Jamaican in his ethnic make up, not least because he is an Englishman playing for his country. Ask any celebrity to describe their ethnic make up on Twitter and they will respond e.g. 1/5 Puerto Rican, 1/4 Irish, a 1/3 German.

Well, it shows he's at least aware of his heritage, doesn't it? So it must have some significance or meaning for him. Anyway, if you wish to attach absolutely zero value to his words for some reason, fine, but I was simply correcting you as you had said he neither felt Irish nor had ever referred to his Irish heritage, despite the fact Joe had posted a tweet by Redmond where he described himself as half Irish directly above your post. It seems Redmond volunteered that information unprompted as the tweet doesn't appear to be in reply to anyone.

For god's sake Urijah Faber and Chad Mendes have described themselves as part Irish and they have spent the better part of the last year mocking Conor McGregor's heritage. So, presumably by your logic they are Irish too - or maybe you are being obtuse again.

I don't know the heritage of either, so I'm in no position to comment. How they identify is up to them. All I know is that Redmond was primarily raised by an Irish national single mother, has identified himself as half Irish, is eligible to play for us on account of his heritage and has indeed publicly spoken of this eligibility. If you wish to dismiss the notion that he might be part Irish or that he might have some sentiment for that aspect of his identity, you're free to do so, but it just seems a bit unnecessary, nor is it supported by the evidence.

Eh yeah. Didn't I just say that Wayne Rooney plays for England, said he would never consider playing for Ireland and he is openly of Irish heritage? Or did you miss that?

You said Wayne Rooney considers himself "fully English". I don't know if this is true or not; maybe he does. Either way, he's not all that significant to the discussion considering we have better examples like Keown, McDermott and Gallen to demonstrate examples of players who played for England whilst undoubtedly feeling Irish. Redmond also explicitly described himself as "half Irish" and is presently playing for England, which directly contradicts this claim you made: "If he felt Irish, he would play for Ireland. It's as simple as that. He has never once passed comment about identifying as Irish or having any kind of decision to make about this." Redmond did speak of having a decision to make, by the way: "So I can still play for them, but I’m still viable to play for England seniors, and I qualify to play for the Republic of Ireland seniors, too. So when the time hopefully comes to play international football, I’ll have to decide."

Just admit you jumped to an incorrect conclusion and stop trying to wriggle out of it by fabricating things.

All of those players chose to play for England so not sure how that's disproving my point, seems to be bolstering it if anything. You seem to think an English player like Luke Chambers or Richard Stearman declaring for Ireland is a sign of them acknowledging and paying tribute to their proud Irish roots, when it's dubious that's the case.

Of course it's not bolstering your point. It exposes its complete inaccuracy. Your point was that if Redmond felt Irish, he'd already have opted to play for Ireland. Those players all felt Irish but didn't opt to play for Ireland. Just because Redmond hasn't opted for Ireland doesn't mean he cannot feel Irish in some way (as well as English and even Jamaican). You're in no position to comment on how he feels or identifies.

Again, you put words in my mouth. All I would suggest is that declarations of the sort can very well be a means for a player to pay tribute to his Irish roots; Simon Cox was very happy to express pride in his Galway roots when he was selected. If you don't want to believe him, that's your call. Of course I can acknowledge there exist more mercenary types as well, like Jermaine Pennant, but I'm not just going to assume a "granny-ruler" is a complete mercenary whilst knowing nothing about his background and the full extent of his personal feelings on the matter.

It's not a grey area at all where Nathan Redmond, Patrick Bamford, Mark Noble, Kyle Naughton, Callum Wilson and myriad others are concerned. They are completely ambivalent about playing for Ireland - at least until their hopes of playing for England fade - so I don't understand why they are given so much attention on an Irish football forum. If they declare for Ireland grand. Anyways, it's yer prerogative.

It clearly does bother you though, for some reason. If people want to discuss them, let them. It's of no detriment to you. You can just skip the thread.

I don't think 3rd generation English players make much of a difference to our fortunes. Our best players are traditionally Irish born players and I don't think people give our talent pool enough credit. If ye think Joe Garner and Callum Wilson are the difference between us and success at a tournament - again yer prerogative.

Who ever said Joe Garner and Callum Wilson would make such a difference? Complete strawman. It obviously depends on the particular player(s) concerned; the likes of Bamford, Grealish and Redmond would undeniably offer us a lot more than Garner ever would. The likes of Andy Townsend and Mark Lawrenson were third-generation, weren't they? They offered quite a lot. Townsend even captained the team. It is possible to give credit to our own talent pool and to recognise that our best players have traditionally been born in Ireland whilst also acknowledging that "granny-rulers" can offer us some assistance too in providing more options and greater strength in depth. Once again, you present a false dilemma, but it doesn't have to be a case of one or the other. What's the harm in having strength in depth? Why is it a bad thing?

Just because I think he shouldn't be a guaranteed starter, hold his record to closer scrutiny and hold him accountable the same way I'd hold any other Irish player accountable doesn't mean I "hate" him.

You hold his record to closer scrutiny than the rest of us? Please enlighten us as to how we should be better scrutinising what is an absolutely phenomenal goal-scoring record not merely within an Irish context but also within the global context. It's world class and is littered with a mix goals scored against small teams and goals in absolutely massive games. And you haven't held him to account fairly; you put words in his mouth in relation to the future retirement comments and continued to insist your interpretation was correct because "that's what he said" despite clarification from Liam Mackey, who was there, and from Robbie himself showing that the spin you were putting on the words was a complete misrepresentation. That just came across as rather unfair, if not emotionally or pig-headedly biased for some reason.

[DannyInvincible]

I understand why I get mocked for this, but what annoyed me was his moaning after not getting called up for a squad and media campaign for call ups a couple of years ago - which has died down now that he is a squad regular.

Am I understanding you correctly that one of the reasons you were annoyed with Richard Keogh was because some completely independent people in the media, with whom the player had absolutely no connection and over whom he had absolutely no personal influence or control, were encouraging his selection? If so, you simply cannot be serious.

How could commitment such as that expressed by Keogh ever be a bad thing/annoying?

[DeLorean]

Not quite, Richie frequently spoke of wanting to get into/back into the Irish squad in interviews. He was captain of Derby so obviously did more press work that the rest of the players. TOWK took exception to this because he saw Keogh as being well down the pecking order for us. It was pretty obvious from the word go that TOWK had an irrational dislike (hatred?) for Keogh that seemed to eclipse simply not rating him as a player, and this particular bout of lunacy just compounded his stance. As it turned out, rightly or wrongly, Keogh wasn't nearly as far down the pecking order as TOWK would have thought or liked. He mentions above that Keogh was moaning about not getting called up which is complete lies, he even admitted as such here. He obviously felt that enough time had gone by that it was safe to pass it off as the reality once more, in a sad attempt to strengthen his ridiculous argument.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

His mother said I quote "He has chosen to play for England, sorry". Babble away all you want.

You posted a link to an article that I wasn't referring to. Kind of misleading.

"Black and white thinking"... There is nothing black and white about the situation of any of the players I mentioned. England is their #1 priority and they will only play for Ireland if England don't select them.

Redmond is of Irish descent. Joey Barton has alluded to his Irish heritage in the past without prompting and had strong opinions on the situation of many English players who declare/have declared for Ireland.

I don't think Redmond identifies with his Irish heritage. That's my opinion. It certainly isn't a strong enough factor to influence what country he declares for.

I will write the rest of my responses tomorrow as your posts/diatribes are unnecessarily long and I am pressed for time.

[DannyInvincible]

His mother said I quote "He has chosen to play for England, sorry". Babble away all you want.

She was referring to his present situation. His present situation doesn't rule out the possibility (whatever the likelihood; fat or slim, we do not know) of him changing his mind in future, nor do the words of that tweet. Are you trying to suggest that the tweet absolutely rules out the possibility of him ever declaring for Ireland?

You posted a link to an article that I wasn't referring to. Kind of misleading.

What's wrong with you? Can't you see I posted two (2) links? Please read this exchange again very, very carefully:



And go back and double-check the link to this post of yours (if you even checked it the first time). Wasn't that a link to your posting of the Christie comments to which you have latterly been referring? Far from the above reply being a case of me trying to mislead, distract, conceal, cover something up or whatever it is you're trying to get at (because you so clearly didn't pay proper attention to what I'd written initially), it links directly to a post were you quoted the words of Cyrus Christie that you're now accusing me of evading. Hell, I even explicitly quoted and referred to some of what he'd said in those particular comments myself, as you should be able to see if you would only read what I wrote, before I provided some complementary information to ensure a more complete view of the reality.

"Black and white thinking"... There is nothing black and white about the situation of any of the players I mentioned. England is their #1 priority and they will only play for Ireland if England don't select them.

That would be to contradict your curiously-rigid interpretation of Michelle Redmond's tweet.

Anyhow, you fail to understand the distinction for a second time. I'm not talking about the particular situations of Redmond and Bamford, which are apparent for all of us to see; England are their priority right now and nobody is doubting that because it's what the players themselves have expressed. I'm talking about your black-and-white thinking on this matter; this mindset where you think a declaring player must have been prepared to spill blood for Ireland, and Ireland only, from the moment of his birth or else he's a shameless mercenary out to do harm to our pure-blooded and more-deserving sons of Erin. You assume that just because a player might prioritise playing for England at some point in his life, he can never have any sentiment for his shared Irish heritage. You're in absolutely no position to be making such frankly stupid, ignorant and offensive assumptions.

Redmond is of Irish descent. Joey Barton has alluded to his Irish heritage in the past without prompting and had strong opinions on the situation of many English players who declare/have declared for Ireland.

What does Joey Barton have to do with it?

I don't think Redmond identifies with his Irish heritage. That's my opinion.

How on earth would you even know? What qualifies you to make such a remark?

It certainly isn't a strong enough factor to influence what country he declares for.

It doesn't have to be now to still be genuine. At some point in the future, he may be happy to declare for Ireland due to a combination of not having been selected at senior level by England and positive sentiment for his Irish heritage, amongst other possible things. Nuance; you should try appreciating it some time...

I will write the rest of my responses tomorrow as your posts/diatribes are unnecessarily long and I am pressed for time.

Make sure not to forget about that quote I asked you for now...

[SkStu]

I will write the rest of my responses tomorrow as your posts/diatribes are unnecessarily long and I am pressed for time.

[Olé Olé]

I don't think Redmond identifies with his Irish heritage. That's my opinion. It certainly isn't a strong enough factor to influence what country he declares for.

Bloody dreadful assertion/opinion or whatever you want to call it. He identifies with it enough to state that he's half Irish. Stating that he's half Irish could be identifying as half Irish by any critical reasoning.

And bringing Joey Barton into it is irrelevant. He never even entertained the prospect of playing for us. Bamford and Redmond have. Whether they ever play for us is another matter but a Joey Barton reference in relation to these players is taking the matter totally out of context and his personal opinion has no application to these players (or much else, as far as I'm concerned).

[Charlie Darwin]

I already hope Redmond just gets a full England cap so this conversation will stop.

[tetsujin1979]

Nathan Redmond is an Irish-qualified, English-born player who is currently playing in the premier league for Norwich city, and has spoken about his eligibility for the republic of Ireland national side. End of discussion.
Move on.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Listen this is ridiculous.

Danny has completely ignored moderator requests to not respond to my comments. I have obliged your requests not to respond to his and bait him. I have only ever responded to comments he has baited me with. Why am I the one being punished and made an example out of?

If you don't delete his posts pertaining to me - fair enough - but then I am gone and not coming back.

It's only fair that you delete all posts from both posters and not just mine.

That's the second or third time this has happened and I don't find it to be the slightest bit impartial.

: Especially when you consider the belligerence and insulting tone of several aspects of his posts.

[colonelwest]

Well if Matt Cooper ever leaves Today FM they can look no further than TOWK to fill the last word slot on drivetime.

[nigel-harps1954]

Well if Matt Cooper ever leaves Today FM they can look no further than TOWK to fill the last word slot on drivetime.

The Never-ending Word.

[dahamsta]

Listen this is ridiculous.

If you have a problem with moderation, report it in the appropriate way. Infracted for thread spoiling.

Please, do go, BTW. And don't come back. Nobody wants you here, everyone is clear on that but you. Everyone knows you're a loser troll that gets a kick out of trying to get a rise out of people, everyone knows you're a sad individual that has nothing better to do in life. You're not funny, you're not entertaining, nobody here likes you. You won't be missed.

If you have a problem with this moderation, again, use the appropriate channels. If you reply to this post, you'll be banned permanently from Foot.ie. Go on, try me.

[dahamsta]

Before you reply to this thread, read the last paragraph of the post above. That doesn't just apply to the absolute langer you're defending. I spend a ridiculous amount of time dealing with fallout caused by that disruptive muppet, and I welcome the day he's gone. If you all love him so much, you're welcome to follow him when he goes. I have better things to do with my time.

Get back on topic please.

[IsMiseSean]

So anyway..... How about that local sports team?