Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[Stuttgart88]

Tour de France spoiler alert.








I couldn't help thinking of this thread and whole debate today when I saw Froome pull out of the Tour after only a few stages. Team SKY is perceived as one of the slickest, smoothest, best organised and most methodically planned outfits in any sport. I have some doubts but anyway, I think the perception is largely correct. But after only 4 days the Tour favourite is out and unless Richie Porte can step up (he is a super climber) their Tour is goosed earlier than England's World Cup. Now, if Rooney, or Gerrard for that matter, was 3 inches taller I reckon England would have made the last 16. That's not to say England's football architecture and plumbing isn't all wrong.

But let's not overlook just how capricious sport can be. All the analysis in the world can't explain the role tiny things can do. If David Silva had taken a routine chance to make it 2-0 Holland may have been heading for the exit early.

My point is that planning and organisation is probably a necessary but certainly an insufficient ingredient in determining success. Planning, organisation, structures, governance etc can improve your chances but raw luck is often the essential factor. As osarusan(?) said above many doubt that Belgium's success is really down to their NGB. Even those who laud the NGB's role openly accept that raw luck was a factor in this generation coming together.

[paul_oshea]

4 words never used in the whole GB affair.

how did you construct all that during the world cup semi finale

[Stuttgart88]

Most of it was written during the anthems.

[DannyInvincible]

Tour de France spoiler alert.








I couldn't help thinking of this thread and whole debate today when I saw Froome pull out of the Tour after only a few stages. Team SKY is perceived as one of the slickest, smoothest, best organised and most methodically planned outfits in any sport. I have some doubts but anyway, I think the perception is largely correct. But after only 4 days the Tour favourite is out and unless Richie Porte can step up (he is a super climber) their Tour is goosed earlier than England's World Cup. Now, if Rooney, or Gerrard for that matter, was 3 inches taller I reckon England would have made the last 16. That's not to say England's football architecture and plumbing isn't all wrong.

But let's not overlook just how capricious sport can be. All the analysis in the world can't explain the role tiny things can do. If David Silva had taken a routine chance to make it 2-0 Holland may have been heading for the exit early.

My point is that planning and organisation is probably a necessary but certainly an insufficient ingredient in determining success. Planning, organisation, structures, governance etc can improve your chances but raw luck is often the essential factor. As osarusan(?) said above many doubt that Belgium's success is really down to their NGB. Even those who laud the NGB's role openly accept that raw luck was a factor in this generation coming together.

I'm a disciple of causality and I believe "luck" to be what happens when preparation meets opportunity. One may not strictly be able to personally control the rising of an opportunity - although that's not to say opportunity cannot be manufactured or influenced either - but preparation is essential if one is going to be able to take full advantage of an opportunity. Preparation will provide you with the necessary basis or grounding from which you can springboard, if you will. The better prepared will, by and large, rise to the top. It's no surprise Germany made it to the World Cup final after trouncing Brazil. They were prepared - ruthless, clinical and consummately professional - and were able to take advantage of being presented with a bunch of headless chickens in their semi-final.

[BonnieShels]

Fail to prepare; prepare to fail.

We have the right man in charge (of laying out cones at national team training).

To be honest, Keane as FAI CEO would be the real dream.

[paul_oshea]

Very good debate about the problems in brazillian football going on right now mentioned in various mediums, very similar to what has been spoken about the problems in ireland.

[BonnieShels]

But they might actually change things.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm away at he moment but this article contains links to two reports from the German Bundesliga about Germany's state of affairs.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/german...m_source=email


I'd be interested in reading them. Of course if anyone here can do a summary...

[gastric]

I felt myself doing a lot of reflection after reading this article. Showing my age now, but Brady was such a class player. saw him live twice, once at Highbury and at Lansdowne Road and he had a real ability to control a game and determine the pace of the game too. However, I don't believe he deserved to go to Euro 88 as the pace of the game had passed him by. But I digress!

What shocked me was just how parasitic youth system is. Taking kids is one thing, rejecting them at 14 is another. I would love to know if studies have been done on rejection at such a young age after been built up by clubs initially. I did not realise that players of such young age were being treated this way which shows my innocence. It also highlights for me that if ever we do create an Irish youth system it should be about creating well-rounded individuals, not just footballers who are one dimensional.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...1870933?page=3

[Stuttgart88]

14 year old from Tallaght invited to trial with Atletico Madrid

http://www.thecoachdiary.com/coerver...letico-madrid/

A successful outcome from the Coerver guys apparently.

[liamoo11]

That s two years ago. Did he sign for anyone?

[paul_oshea]

has stutts been reading old news all thus time like it's some radical new development?

are these coaching sessions still happening?

[Stuttgart88]

Sorry, I saw it on thecoachdiary.com this afternoon. On the homepage too, so I presumed it was current. Don't know what happened.

[BonnieShels]

Remember this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/16698328

I do.

What is interesting, 10 years ago I had next to no interest in cricket. Watching a Shane Warne bowl in the 2005 Ashes series made me go "Wha?". Became instantly hooked. Moving to Australia later in the year helped it.

Anyway, in the intervening period since then the Ireland cricket team as we all know here, have become the leading associate nation in world cricket. The goal is to have a first class series in Ireland (getting there) and test cricket by 2020. There was also the attempt top stem the tide of our best players going to England by signing players centrally.

Now this roadmap was all encompassing with measurable goals.

Cricket has gone from no where 15 years ago to a sport that is really growing in popularity and the public awareness.

Now... what I fail to see is that in the last 15 years Irish soccer has gotten progressively more mediocre with no real measurable goals and zero joined up thinking. Irish soccer is being left behind in professionalism from the other 4 of the top 5 sports.

Reading that article again for the first time since it was published 2 and a half years ago makes me feel frustrated for Irish soccer. We're going no where in fact we're going backwards and I honestly can't see where the change and improvement is going to come from.

[tetsujin1979]

FAI extend emerging talent programs to include promising ten year olds: http://www.thescore.ie/fai-emerging-...90884-Jul2014/

[Crosby87]

Can you trust a promise from a ten year old tets?

[Stuttgart88]

Copenhagen CEO calls for champions league for smaller countries. Super idea in my opinion.

http://www.sportal.com.au/football/c...c1ea9al5sjltlv

[paul_oshea]

I wonder who put you onto that without any acknowledgement either.

I think its a good idea in theory, but how would you share the money out, you can't expect UEFA to give money from a superior competition to an inferior one that teams dont participate in.

Also, if there was some incentive for the "bigger" teams from smaller nations to enter like guaranteed winning gets you group stage in the following years CL.

[Stuttgart88]

I saw it before you texted me Paul

The CL subsidises other areas of European football and could continue doing so. I haven't seen the CL TV revenue broken down by country but my guess is that big countries contribute the most anyway, and non-European countries (e.g., Asia) would still pay handsomely.

It's not unfeasible that these lesser countries, if they pool resources, could strike an attractive TV deal from their own territories with a revenue sharing agreement among themselves, and with UEFA. Additional local sponsors would be attracted too, and I'd imagine not necessarily by diminishing ad revenues for the main CL.

I'd say it's more than a zero sum game. Any cost to the CL proper would be outweighed by gains to the lower competitions.

It'd all be down to the power politics. In principle the European Club Association is representative of a very wide group of football clubs, not just the old G14. This would test the big clubs' solidarity commitment!

I don't know how it would play out at UEFA level though. On one hand they'd be seen to being more inclusive of the non-elite. A stronger non-elite would strengthen UEFA. However, on the other they would be virtually ring fencing the elite which might strengthen their hand?

[DannyInvincible]

"Brady says lack of young Irish talent emerging ‘scary’": http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/b...ry-278843.html

“If the players are not there, what can you do? I’ve told [FAI chief executive] John Delaney this years ago, it’s scary.

“There are simply no Irish players coming through. The last Irish player Arsenal signed was Anthony Stokes. I really, really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see anything coming through from Ireland. And it scares me,” he says in an extensive interview on his time at Arsenal, to be published in tomorrow’s Irish Examiner.

“It’s already evident in Irish sides, and affects what Martin O’Neill is trying to do, and what [Giovanni] Trapattoni was trying to do. When I was with Giovanni, the media was always bleating about ‘look at him, look at him, why isn’t he playing?’. But who has come through? Seamus Coleman is one of the very few who has come up to standard.”

In the interview, Brady offers a revealing insight into the changing world of youth development, where money dictates everything. A starlet from his own club in Dublin, St Kevin’s Boys, was Robbie Brady, whom Arsenal lost out on to Manchester United.

“He came to Arsenal at one stage, then it became a bit of an auction with Man United and we backed out of it. It became a bit rich for us.”

And Brady admitted that, at clubs like Arsenal, making the breakthrough is getting more difficult.

“You always want talented players at your club, but if you’d asked me when he was 16 whether Robbie Brady would play for Arsenal’s first team, I’d have said maybe not. However, he’s done really well and is making his living in the Premier League, but at the time, Arsenal decided it wasn’t worth going to the levels I knew we would have to go to.”