Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[Bungle]

What about a trying to drum up support to get this Oireachtas Committee to ask questions of the FAI?

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/...tions/members/

I'm not great on social media but I'm sure somehow all 25 people in Ireland who actually care anymore can be united!

It needn't be threatening to the FAI. Quite simply the terms could be "If you could start afresh how would you do things? Is this different to the status quo? What obstacles prevent change?".

In the UK the Department of Culture Media and Sport organised a thorough inquiry into football's governance and as a result a Football Governance Bill is being put through parliament right now.

The Oireactas Committee linked above were pretty eager to invite the GAA in to answer for their decision to sell TV rights to SKY. There is a Dail group of football supporting TDs and of course Mick Wallace has in interest in these matters. Personally I expect government can't give a hoot even though the ISC channels funding to the FAI on their behalf.

I think the Denis O'Briens of the country could be able to help financially. The problem is that nobody knows what the problem is but plenty offer trite solutions like a 32 county team or entering Leinster into the Champions League

that would be brilliant. We need to get the problems of underage football in this country out in a more public domain. how would we need to do it before approaching the Oireachtas Stuttgart? Would we need to get information for them to put to the FAI such as comparisons with other countries? Would several fans groups add weight to the fight?

[Eminence Grise]

I like the idea. With the right support who's to say it couldn't produce something useful?

It seems to me that the three key people on that committee are John O'Mahoney, Mick Wallace and Eamon Coughlan - all three have the strong sports background to appreciate the benefits of good sporting infrastructure and practice. Wallace, though, has a conflict of interest given the Youths and might have to step back on it.

For anything to get brought up at a JHOC, it needs to be current or related to legislation, or (cynic!) capable of shining a positive light on the members. Anything else is harder to put on the agenda. Knowing at the outset what you want to achieve is crucial: do you want to mark the FAI's cards, create a debate (again, why?), facilitate state-private sector involvement etc. The better briefed the JHOC is, the stronger the case, so a comprehensive briefing document and meetings or other communication with the members would be essential. At the very least, you would need to know at the outset which members of the committee would support a national debate on football, and for instance,which would care little about it, or prefer to be seen active on GAA issues. That's where having an organisation behind you makes sense.

Just riffing with ideas, but questions on underage coaching (tied into tackling social disadvantage or crossing the gender divide), preventing the forced migration of youngsters to UK clubs, potential employment opportunities from professionalisation of clubs (players and administration) and exchequer benefits from infrastructure projects, increased commercial activity etc that that would bring. As I said, just riffing -there are probably much better things to consider.

[Charlie Darwin]

I know it's the Daily Mail and the whole "Belgian system" thing has been done to death, but decent article here. Not that at no point did anybody talk about how they could get players going to France and the Netherlands at a younger age.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...eam-today.html

[gastric]

Good article overall. Haven't we got a few underage players at Anderlecht, one being a goalkeeper? Maybe we benefit from their blueprint!

[Nagger]

The Belgium blueprint

- Winning at all costs is over-rated
- Five against five games at youth levels
- Seven against seven for older kids
- Delayed introduction to full-size pitches

Seems simple enough

[tetsujin1979]

slightly related - Dundee United have sold 18 year old midfielder Ryan Gauld to Sporting Lisbon, his new contract includes a 60m buy out clause - http://www.theguardian.com/football/...use?CMP=twt_gu

[osarusan]

I work with a Belgian, who is very much into football, and he told me that there is quite a lot of scepticism in Belgium from people outside the Belgian FA about the extent of the credit/praise that the Belgian FA are claiming for the new wave of Belgian players.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Also slightly related. Young Scottish left back Stephen Kingsley has signed for Swansea, a good passing team. Robert Snodgrass is back in the PL with Hull. Ross McCormack linked with a big money move to PL clubs. Chris Kettings has moved to Crystal Palace as back up for Julian Speroni. West Brom had a bid rejected for Andrew Robertson. Burnley had a bid rejected for Craig Bryson. Matt Gilks heavily linked with PL clubs. Ross Wallace, Paul Gallagher, Scott Arfield and Matt Phillips have all been promoted to the PL with their clubs.

Meanwhile no Irish players have made moves to top tier teams in any country. No Irish players look like doing so. Pilkington would probably be the best bet but his well documented injury problems seem to have turned teams off. Richard Dunne is the only Irish player that got promoted and he is 35, and QPR have signed Rio and are looking to sign at least one more CB.

The numbers of Irish players in the PL are ever decreasing, there are scarcely any Irish players that look like making the move, the Irish players that get promoted aren't judged good enough to make the step up (Garvan, Treacy), our most talented young player outside the top flight signed a new contract at Derby (and there are far younger players than him making the step up) and whatever lads could make an ambitious move to a bigger team or decent standard foreign team don't seem to have the bottle or determination to do so.

It's pure depressing.

Like the biggest move from an Irish standpoint this summer is going to be Roy Keane, and he is our assistant manager!

[DannyInvincible]

Good article overall. Haven't we got a few underage players at Anderlecht, one being a goalkeeper? Maybe we benefit from their blueprint!

Do we have a few? I know of one - Liam Bossin - who qualifies through his mother. He's the goalkeeper and has been included in a few of our under-age squads.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Do we have a few? I know of one - Liam Bossin - who qualifies through his mother. He's the goalkeeper and has been included in a few of our under-age squads.

Robin Walsh is the other.

[Stuttgart88]

TOWK's post prompted me to dig up this old article from 2009 which I posted in 2010 after England's World Cup exit.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...track-1.992388

It was an article by management consultant Alistair Gray (of Genesis Report fame) calling on the SFA to urgently overhaul the workings of Scottish football. I wonder if any part of their upturn in fortunes can be attributed to his suggestions?

It took me a while to locate the article but some of my unsuccessful searches resulted in articles he wrote bigging up the work he did for the FAI, trumpeting the work of JD, the FAI governance reforms, and the appointment of Koevermans and bemoaning the lack of similar characters or imaginative appointments in Scotland. I wonder what he thinks now!

Edit: I just read the Mail article on Belgium above, not realising that the SFA is mimicking the Belgian model.

I can't even detect whether any of this strategic soul searching is even on the FAI's agenda. I'm happy to give Ruud Dokter the benefit of the doubt. His CV is impressive and I reckon he knows his stuff. My gut feeling (another one) is that many of the right ingredients are in place in Ireland. Our coaches aren't stupid and I'm led to believe there is a growing body of enlightened young coaches trying to do things differently. The NDSL is apparently very impressive, for example.

Facilities? I've no idea, but it expect in the lesser population areas they're terrible.

Coach education? We have some good coaches but nowhere near enough.

The shape of the game? Factions, divisions and chaos is what it looks like to me.

Funding? Nobody is prepared to invest but everybody is happy to try and get in on the action when the bandwagon starts rolling

[Stuttgart88]

In a curious sense, the lack of money in the Scottish game is probably working to their advantage. In 2009 less than half of SPL players were Scottish eligible. I'd say there are a lot more now and a proper pathway has opened up for Scottish talent to progress.

[DannyInvincible]

I see Sporting Lisbon snapped up promising Dundee United youngster Ryan Gauld on a six-year contract for £3 million with a release clause of €60 million. He's been dubbed "Baby Messi", but he hasn't represented Scotland at senior level yet.

Robin Walsh is the other.

Do they pronounce it 'Valsh' in Belgium?

[BonnieShels]

slightly related - Dundee United have sold 18 year old midfielder Ryan Gauld to Sporting Lisbon, his new contract includes a 60m buy out clause - http://www.theguardian.com/football/...use?CMP=twt_gu

I see Sporting Lisbon snapped up promising Dundee United youngster Ryan Gauld on a six-year contract for £3 million with a release clause of €60 million. He's been dubbed "Baby Messi", but he hasn't represented Scotland at senior level yet.

Where did you see that? Tets posted it yesterday.

[Stuttgart88]

Where did you see that? Tets posted it yesterday.

Are you having a conversation with yourself there?

[Stuttgart88]

Do they pronounce it 'Valsh' in Belgium?

in Flanders yes, Wallonia no

[Stuttgart88]

I've just seen Ryan Gauld on Sky. And people say Chris Forrester needs to bulk up?

Some of the better players at the World Cup are seriously skinny. Neymar would be one.

[BonnieShels]

Are you having a conversation with yourself there?

It was directed at Mr Invincible who missed Tets' post from yesterday.

in Flanders yes, Wallonia no

I fear eligibility discussions wafting from that flippant post.

[Charlie Darwin]

I've just seen Ryan Gauld on Sky. And people say Chris Forrester needs to bulk up?

Some of the better players at the World Cup are seriously skinny. Neymar would be one.

People confuse skinny with weak, I think. Forrester would get outmuscled if he went to England, I think. In fact, I think he might have a hard time of it against the Poles.

[BonnieShels]

People confuse skinny with weak, I think. Forrester would get outmuscled if he went to England, I think. In fact, I think he might have a hard time of it against the Poles.

They're pretty static. He should have no problem walking around them.