QuotePhantom elbow.
Maybe one day there will be such a thing as a player's cheat stat, with different categories.
Chiellini off for an "elbow". There's a potentially great match ruined.
Phantom elbow.
Maybe one day there will be such a thing as a player's cheat stat, with different categories.
It's more than just cheating. Players get caught with accidental elbows all the time - the referee looked at what is quite a common occurrance and decided that it was malicious. That's nothing to do with the player cheating and everything to do with the referee inventing something in his head.
You had that and you also had Ronaldo blatantly acting as if he had been elbowed. The ref would not likely be fooled without the simulation.
Didn't see it. How did it compare with Lewandowski last night, when Koscielny just took it in the chin, almost literally?
It doesn't at all compare with Lewandowski's,
that was a question of whether it was just a foul or intent - elbow smashing into the face intent.
Ronaldo simulated contact and fooled the gullible officials, player red carded, game over.
I accept that, but my point is that even if Ronaldo had been caught and was in pain, it was still never a red card. You can't go giving red cards for players putting their arms across opponents like that.Originally Posted by geysir
The Lewandowski elbow incident yesterday was just about - probably - not intentional, if there was intent it could not be detected or proven.
You could say, regardless of what the recipient of the elbow smash does, the ref should see the incident for what it is and
no amount of simulation should have influenced the ref's decision from non intentional to intentional.
But it doesn't always work like that, I don't know why, maybe when there's some doubt as to what happened, the ref gets persuaded by the simulation.
Just think of a player simulating getting hacked down by the goalie, the ref gets hoodwinked by the theatre. The ref got hoodwinked tonight that the elbow was used aggressively to shield Ronaldo from the ball.
I don't think those situations are analogous. In all my years of watching footballs elbow each other, I've never seen a player elbow a guy who's running past him like that. It's just too improbable to occur. I have no doubt Ronaldo went down clutching his face in an effort to con the referee, but I think he was doing it to ensure he got the free kick and maybe have Chiellini yellow-carded. He must not have been able to believe his luck when the referee took out the red.
I think Charlie you have to concede, due to the overwhelming evidence available, that refs do get fooled by players simulating injury and you just can't legislate where simulation should not matter in a game, as in influencing a ref.
And if you trust that the refs are very proficient at this level, actually are under pressure to make the 'right' decision at all times and most probably do want to make the right decision at all times.
Well yeah but my argument isn't with Ronaldo simulating injury (he did). I'm saying that even in his wildest dreams, Ronaldo wouldn't have imagined that his dive would be interpreted by the officials as a deliberate elbow. I'm not sticking up for lily-livered Ronaldo, I'm saying the officials went one step further and produced a decision for the ages.
Except refs/officials these days are often eejits.
Another reason why these should be confirmed by a video ref. Non-contact should mean a straight red for the supposedly 'fouled' players. Then these morons would stop perhaps.
I can't read Ronaldo's mind re his expectations, but it is clear that he did everything to simulate a reason for a ref to give a red card. No mitigation for Ronaldo by putting the onus on the ref to suss out that he was cheating.
Maybe the officials should have known better, somewhere, something got lost. Between the lot of them you'd think they would be able to communicate, so probably they would need a time out situation or and video ref to get it all in perspective. The rest of the officiating in the game was very good.
You're being a little disingenuous here, geysir. You can make a reasonable approximation of his expectations. When a cat chases its tail, you can reasonably infer that he is chasing a moving object rather than fulfilling an deep-seated vendetta against tails. Likewise, if Ronaldo falls down clutching a body part in normal play, you can infer that he is looking for a free kick, rather than the straight red he might demand were it an off-the-ball incident.
I wouldn't know how to be disingenuous, I don't know how you can infer that
I can't read Ronaldo's mind but I can observe what he did. If a player simulates getting hit on the face with a flying elbow, rolls around the grass in agony then to my mind he's trying to convince the ref that an offence has been committed, depending on perception if the ref has been suckered, it's a yellow or straight red card offence. FWIW I think Chiellini was fouling him, using his arm way too high to ward off Ronaldo and Ronaldo simulated getting chopped. A foul was turned into something violent by Ronaldo.
Whats the big deal anyway, you infer one thing and I don't agree with you
Because you both love 'point-scoring'...
Juventus are up against it now, of all the Italian teams they probably had the easiest group, yet half way through they have less than half the points of Napoli or Milan. Even if they win at home to Madrid (unlikely) they could still need a win in Turkey which will be a tall order for them.
I'm sure this'll prove popular with some on here...
http://bit.ly/1dOzUIU
http://www.joe.ie/football/football-...n-next-season/
Well they did play a champions league game in Belfast this year
UEFA Champions League rules don't permit the playing of home fixtures outside the territory of a competing club's association, so Celtic will have to play any home qualifiers in Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24758149
Exemptions can only be granted or enforced for disciplinary or security/safety reasons.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks