Reform, root and branch

[legendz]

Nothing will change with Soccer in Ireland until all the stakeholders from Schoolboy up to League of Ireland level sit down and formalize a plan for Soccer in Ireland going forward.
This requires the type of leadership from the FAI which under its present guise is not possible. The first thing that is needed is reform of the FAI from the top down.

Clubs like Cork City under the ownership of its fans group FORAS are trying hard to change opinions in all areas of Cork City & county.

They have attempted integration in the Munster Senior League but their attempts were rebuffed.
City had a selection of players from the Under 19 league who still needed development before stepping up to League of Ireland level.
City inquired about entering a team in the Munster Senior League. They were told that it would have to be the lower level of the League which is the 2nd division.
Although this was not ideal as the standard would not be great City applied for membership of the Munster Senior League Div 2.
Even though City fulfilled all the criteria for membership their application was refused.
The reason given was "It would not be in the interest of the League"
City appealed the decision but the appeal was refused as well for an equally ridiculous reason.

Are there many other clubs around the country in a similar situation?

[disgruntled]

I would imagine all the clubs have this problem.
The ideal situation is the A or Under 21 league where these players could get experience.It could be regionalized if necessary.
Personally I would prefer to see all the Leagues around the country integrated in a type of league network as in the UK but I don't hold out much hope of that ever happening.
The advantage of regional Leagues like the Munster Senior League & other such leagues is the reduction in the expense involved rather that having to travel all over the country.

[citybone]

I would imagine all the clubs have this problem.
The ideal situation is the A or Under 21 league where these players could get experience.It could be regionalized if necessary.
Personally I would prefer to see all the Leagues around the country integrated in a type of league network as in the UK but I don't hold out much hope of that ever happening.
The advantage of regional Leagues like the Munster Senior League & other such leagues is the reduction in the expense involved rather that having to travel all over the country.

could field a reserve team in the first division but the costs would be higher. FAI would love another team in the first division. another idea would be to just loan players out too Cobh to get experience.

[disgruntled]

Entry in the 1st Div would work if the 1st Div was regionalised but that's not going to happen because leagues like the Munster Senior League etc would object.

What you have in this country is a bucket load of small leagues all pulling in different directions & the overall product suffers as a result of their actions.
Nothing will change until people get around the table & talk to each other.

[legendz]

I would imagine all the clubs have this problem.
The ideal situation is the A or Under 21 league where these players could get experience.It could be regionalized if necessary.
Personally I would prefer to see all the Leagues around the country integrated in a type of league network as in the UK but I don't hold out much hope of that ever happening.
The advantage of regional Leagues like the Munster Senior League & other such leagues is the reduction in the expense involved rather that having to travel all over the country.

I doubt all clubs have that problem, some premier clubs wanted the A Championship disbanded. I'd like to see it return in some form, no surprises there! As opposed to being viewed mainly as reserve teams, an A league should be something like Olympic squads that LoI clubs could only have a maximum of 3 over the age of 23 players in the matchday squad. Something like that would send out the right signal that it would be a development league. I'd only see a real need for this if we do wind up with only a single tier premier.
I like the idea of senior leagues feeding up the ladder but from what I've read and heard on the internal politics of the game, it's not going to happen. If there's already a club from an area, I wouldn't see the need.

could field a reserve team in the first division but the costs would be higher. FAI would love another team in the first division. another idea would be to just loan players out too Cobh to get experience.

What's stopping a number of clubs forming a league for players of that level and lobbying the FAI for assistance to get it setted?

Entry in the 1st Div would work if the 1st Div was regionalised but that's not going to happen because leagues like the Munster Senior League etc would object.

What you have in this country is a bucket load of small leagues all pulling in different directions & the overall product suffers as a result of their actions.
Nothing will change until people get around the table & talk to each other.

I'm not sure what point you're making here? Why would the MSL object to the first division being regionalised? It won't be regionalised anyways because it was an option of merging with the A Championship but it was rejected.


Is there a problem with having so many small leagues? There doesn't have to be a perfect system like the pyramid structure across the water. If there was, it'll be a bit like the EU and all their regulations etc. I can only solutions from within current structures.

[A face]

Are there many other clubs around the country in a similar situation?

Every club in LOI who have an U19 team i'd say.

[A face]

I doubt all clubs have that problem, some premier clubs wanted the A Championship disbanded. I'd like to see it return in some form, no surprises there! As opposed to being viewed mainly as reserve teams, an A league should be something like Olympic squads that LoI clubs could only have a maximum of 3 over the age of 23 players in the matchday squad. Something like that would send out the right signal that it would be a development league. I'd only see a real need for this if we do wind up with only a single tier premier.

Nice idea, if it were practical, worth looking at.

I like the idea of senior leagues feeding up the ladder but from what I've read and heard on the internal politics of the game, it's not going to happen. If there's already a club from an area, I wouldn't see the need.

Yeah, its like the senior league decide and control whether or not the football system in this country gets resolved ..... but they don't seem to be culpable for it though. Its like there are a law unto their own.

What's stopping a number of clubs forming a league for players of that level and lobbying the FAI for assistance to get it setted?

Clubs cant just go off and start setting up their own leagues, or you'll have a completely disjointed, fragmented mess with loads of division and chaos would rule the day, oh wait ..... we have that already at gressroots, ooooopppps

I'm not sure what point you're making here? Why would the MSL object to the first division being regionalised? It won't be regionalised anyways because it was an option of merging with the A Championship but it was rejected.

I'd imagine the MSL will view a regionalised first divison as competition to their league. They would want it all their own way y'see, not allow teams to join but not like another league setup to substitute, i know it sounds mad as if the MSL didn't have the player pathway/progress at heart and let other reason make the decisions, like self interest etc.

Is there a problem with having so many small leagues? There doesn't have to be a perfect system like the pyramid structure across the water. If there was, it'll be a bit like the EU and all their regulations etc. I can only solutions from within current structures.

Maybe it does have to be a 'perfect system like the pyramid structure across the water' but there would have to be some sort of unified system in place. At present there is no system at all, just everyone doing their own thing. Player Pathway isn't even considered.

[disgruntled]

I'm not sure what point you're making here? Why would the MSL object to the first division being regionalised? It won't be regionalised anyways because it was an option of merging with the A Championship but it was rejected.Is there a problem with having so many small leagues? There doesn't have to be a perfect system like the pyramid structure across the water. If there was, it'll be a bit like the EU and all their regulations etc. I can only solutions from within current structures.

Who rejected the amalgamation of the 1st Div with the A Championship.Was it the League of Ireland clubs or was it the FAI as a whole ? You say there doesn't have to be a perfect structure like across the water.
I ask "Why not"
What we have at the moment is an imperfect structure & it clearly does not work. The present structures clearly do not work & that's why we have being going around in circles for years trying to sort out a workable League of Ireland structure when it’s the overall structure of the FAI which is defective.
We have to move forward with restructuring the FAI otherwise we are going to have the same problems & arguments long after I & many others are long gone.

[A face]

Who rejected the amalgamation of the 1st Div with the A Championship.Was it the League of Ireland clubs or was it the FAI as a whole ? You say there doesn't have to be a perfect structure like across the water. I ask "Why not". What we have at the moment is an imperfect structure & it clearly does not work. The present structures clearly do not work & that's why we have being going around in circles for years trying to sort out a workable League of Ireland structure when it’s the overall structure of the FAI which is defective.
We have to move forward with restructuring the FAI otherwise we are going to have the same problems & arguments long after I & many others are long gone.

To be fair, you have to draw a distinction between the FAI and the SFAI, etc. I think the FAI if it were possible/relatively easy would reform (or at least you would hope so) .... Its the SFAI, MSL, LSL who are blocking the progress from what i can see.

[disgruntled]

To be fair, you have to draw a distinction between the FAI and the SFAI, etc. I think the FAI if it were possible/relatively easy would reform (or at least you would hope so) .... Its the SFAI, MSL, LSL who are blocking the progress from what i can see.

In that case we're Doomed I tell you Doomed.I really don't hold out any hope that any of those organisations will ever want to change what they are quite comfortable with.The best I can hope for is that each club will in their own way see the light & understand that the present structures are not in the best interest of Soccer in this country as a whole.

[legendz]

Every club in LOI who have an U19 team i'd say.

Nice idea, if it were practical, worth looking at.

Some things are appreciated more when they're gone! Maybe a development league along the lines of the A league I mentioned might be seen more acceptable if clubs do require a league for players out of the U19s not ready for the Premier.If the LoI does become a single division of 18, would it be impractical for the clubs to have an A team in one of 3 regional leagues split north&west, east and south?

Who rejected the amalgamation of the 1st Div with the A Championship.Was it the League of Ireland clubs or was it the FAI as a whole ? You say there doesn't have to be a perfect structure like across the water.
I ask "Why not"
What we have at the moment is an imperfect structure & it clearly does not work. The present structures clearly do not work & that's why we have being going around in circles for years trying to sort out a workable League of Ireland structure when it’s the overall structure of the FAI which is defective.
We have to move forward with restructuring the FAI otherwise we are going to have the same problems & arguments long after I & many others are long gone.

I'm open for correction here as I wasn't at any of the meeting. If I was, I'd be demanding any structure that assured the place of a Kerry club!!My understanding was that Premier clubs found it a drain on resources having to field an A team. This was a main driving force behind ending the A Championship. This is why I've been surprised to hear clubs now looking for a level for players out of U19s not quite ready for the premier division.
On the amalgamtion of first division and A Championship, my understanding from what I heard of it was the first division clubs were not interested in it.
Regards perfect structure or not, the reality has to be accepted. If the big fish in the small pond won't and can't be changed, what can be done? There are areas of improvement that can be made e.g. the A league along the lines of olympic squads mentioned above. What you'd have there would be three regional development leagues below the LoI. The hope would be in time that clubs from non-LoI areas might join e.g. Carlow FC who wouldn't have restriction on numbers of U23 players at it'd be their first team at that level. Just to expand on this one step further again, the best first teams from each of the 3 regions along with the worst team in the LoI division(s) could play-off for the final LoI spot each year.
This would at least be an improvement of where we are: more regions with a connect with the LoI and a level between underage and senior leagues.

[disgruntled]

Some things are appreciated more when they're gone! Maybe a development league along the lines of the A league I mentioned might be seen more acceptable if clubs do require a league for players out of the U19s not ready for the Premier.If the LoI does become a single division of 18, would it be impractical for the clubs to have an A team in one of 3 regional leagues split north&west, east and south?I'm open for correction here as I wasn't at any of the meeting. If I was, I'd be demanding any structure that assured the place of a Kerry club!!My understanding was that Premier clubs found it a drain on resources having to field an A team. This was a main driving force behind ending the A Championship. This is why I've been surprised to hear clubs now looking for a level for players out of U19s not quite ready for the premier division.On the amalgamtion of first division and A Championship, my understanding from what I heard of it was the first division clubs were not interested in it.Regards perfect structure or not, the reality has to be accepted. If the big fish in the small pond won't and can't be changed, what can be done? There are areas of improvement that can be made e.g. the A league along the lines of olympic squads mentioned above. What you'd have there would be three regional development leagues below the LoI. The hope would be in time that clubs from non-LoI areas might join e.g. Carlow FC who wouldn't have restriction on numbers of U23 players at it'd be their first team at that level. Just to expand on this one step further again, the best first teams from each of the 3 regions along with the worst team in the LoI division(s) could play-off for the final LoI spot each year.This would at least be an improvement of where we are: more regions with a connect with the LoI and a level between underage and senior leagues.

(1)There are already regional leagues like the Munster, Leinster & Ulster Senior Leagues but Cork City weren’t allowed to join the Munster Senior League because “It was not in the league’s best interest” so why would we need more regional leagues ? This is one of the problems.There is no continuity or connection between the various leagues.(2)Kerry is more than large enough to have at least a Munster Senior League team. Instead we have teams like Tralee & Killarney playing in the Kerry District League. For goodness sake Kerry is better than that.(3)The only way for the structure to change will be if the members of clubs elect officers who’s real interest is Soccer in general in the country & not their own little patch.***** Is there any way to set out proper paragraphs on this forum as everything jumbled together is doing my head in*****

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'm trying to think of an answer that isn't just "the return key", but I'm flummoxed.

[A face]

I'm trying to think of an answer that isn't just "the return key", but I'm flummoxed.

I think he might be on a phone or a touchpad, the editor is a bit different then.

[legendz]

(1)There are already regional leagues like the Munster, Leinster & Ulster Senior Leagues but Cork City weren’t allowed to join the Munster Senior League because “It was not in the league’s best interest” so why would we need more regional leagues ? This is one of the problems.There is no continuity or connection between the various leagues.(2)Kerry is more than large enough to have at least a Munster Senior League team. Instead we have teams like Tralee & Killarney playing in the Kerry District League. For goodness sake Kerry is better than that.(3)The only way for the structure to change will be if the members of clubs elect officers who’s real interest is Soccer in general in the country & not their own little patch.***** Is there any way to set out proper paragraphs on this forum as everything jumbled together is doing my head in*****

1. A regional league might be needed for LoI clubs who want games for players out of U19's. If senior leagues don't want to facilitate these teams, it appears the only other option. Does Cork need more clubs in the LoI? If there was a connect between MSL and LoI, you'll be looking at a repeat of the 3 Galway clubs situation.
2. The MSL in mainly a Cork league. You're unlikely to have Kerry clubs having anything to do with that league again. If it's the way the MSL want to do their businsess, I'm not going to be critical of it. A regional league along the lines of the A league with LoI development teams and a route to LoI football is the mostly like regional league to have clubs from areas like Kerry, Mayo and Carlow etc. involved.
3. Again, is there a need for overall structure to change? Traditions of clubs and leagues need to be respected as well. The LoI has a strong core of about 18 or 19 clubs. Cork for example should be more to the centre of the devlopment of the game within their region. While it might be tough, they need to work as best they can with the politics of local leagues. From what you've been saying, what Cork is missing is a development team after U19 level. What needs to be worked on there is lobbying the FAI and seek out support of other clubs for the creation of a development league. If premier clubs were able to lobby the FAI to disband the A league, I don't see why on reflection they can't lobby them about the creation of a development league if it's something they think is essential to the development of players.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I think he might be on a phone or a touchpad, the editor is a bit different then.

Really? I've never had one that didn't have a return key of some kind.

[disgruntled]

Really? I've never had one that didn't have a return key of some kind.

You're right.
My one even has an ignore key as well but I couldn't find it

[citybone]

Do any LOI clubs have a second team in a lower league? I think Finn Harps and Derry have teams in the Ulster senior league, Do any Dublin team have a second team in the LSL or Dublin leagues?

[Charlie Darwin]

UCD do, don't think any others do.

[A face]

The Dokter has spoken on the matter .... To be honest i'd say the guy is saying 'what kind of a basket case have to taken on here?' .... all this before you get any replies for the leagues. I suppose it will be easier to pick out the leagues who are in the dark ages and just how dark it is for them.

Dokter.jpg