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Thread: Republic of Ireland V Sweden - Friday, 6th September 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifier

  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Joining up the game and allowing a properly accountable FAI to take full ownership of it, kicking vested interests into touch, is the most important step.

    Let's put aside the emotional or moral debate about a cross-border league.

    If a cross-border league was to be created the rationale would have to be financial improvement. Financial improvement = better wages and facilities = retention of better players / less reliance on the lower tiers of English football. As said earlier in another thread, League One players in England earn upwards of GBP 60k a year, so EUR 75k or thereabouts. We'd need to see some improvement to be able to pay Irish-based players anything like this across the board.

    Where would the money come frome?
    * TV: it'd have to be a very attractive TV product with a big potential audience. I don't see any kind of Celtic League solution here.
    * Corporate: the Irish market isn't big enough. I doubt other peripheral countries' markets are either
    * Gates: regular crowds of upwards of 10k would be required to contribute financially to a self-sustaining professional league. Again, the "product improvement" would have to be quite substantial.


    I've often thought UEFA could do more to include smaller laegues. Perhaps a third-tier European competition, lower than the Europa League and funded by distributions from the other UEFA competitions.

    Better still, configuring the Europa League on a regional basis and geared to include a couple of teams from leagues of our standard. In fact, exactly our standard. Anyone lower can eff off

    The problem here is that if a LOI club cracked it just once they'd become a monopoly domestically so redistribution rules would need to be set.

    Another alternative, if the FAI could afford it, would be to offer central contracts to a number of domestic players - potential future internationals most at risk of leaving to League One equivalent clubs.
    Do you follow the LOI? Shamrock Rovers...........

    I agree on central contracts, though clubs would never go for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennedmc View Post
    Two things we need to do above all else:
    1. Appoint a coach who can get more than the sum of its parts out of the national team
    2. Focus on developing technique of ALL our young players aged between 8 and 14 - it's about raising the average technical standard of all our club players.


    Forget about tactics and systems, keeping player in the national league, all our national teams playing the same system, blaming the English game etc.


    no. 1 is something that can be fixed in the short term
    number 2 will take longer but needs the FAI, school boy clubs etc all on the same page I doubt they can see past their own agendas and will probably bring out some water downed bullsh!t plan that looks good in a press release
    I feel that a co-ordinated system of coaching directed from the very top is the way forward. There is no harm in identifying a system of trying to play - the Danes are copying the Dutch, hence why so many of their players go to Holland, while I understand the Kazakhs have hired a number of top German coaches. The Danes are already a very decent international team with a good pedigree, while the Kazakhs recognise what needs to be done and are taking the required measures - maybe in 10/15 years to come they'll be outplaying and out-thinking our lads home and away.

    ArdeeBhoy noted that the North have far more coaches than we have. This is both depressing and worrying and needs immediate action. There are very top level players being produced by Britain and Ireland and we are almost shooting a Hail Mary up in the air if we think that we will produce more than one in any decade until this is dealt with.

    Stuttgart rightly notes that there are some dynamic and brilliant people involved in youth football and even entire local leagues are taking great action (NDSL), but that this isn't something that is followed in other leagues. I've heard of the brilliant work being done at Kevin's, Crumlin, Templeogue and Malahide United, while clubs like Cherry Orchard, St Joey's and Home Farm don't seem to be producing the talent they used to. I do think that regional leagues such as the DDSL have too much power and we need the FAI to step in and lay down the marker for what needs to be done across the board, up and down the country.

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo View Post
    UEFA might have left the door open on this from a legal point of view
    UEFA/FIFA may be bound by their own rules, but they can also legislate however they like (within the law of the land). Precedent won't get in the way of something that might prove lucrative for them.

    I d agree with Mark and Gastric though that something drastic such as a merger needs to happen, the domestic game hasn't really kicked on, this year's European results were shocking and not ever having a team in the CL group stage is a massive indictment of it.
    To be fair, this year's LOI European results weren't shocking; they were generally to be expected. Had an Irish team progressed from any of their ties, it would have been an upset. Not that that's any consolation given what is a pretty depressing situation.

    Pat's, being seeded, were, of course, the exception and it's not as if they embarrassed either. They were drawn against one of the stronger (the strongest?) unseeded sides in the draw.

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    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Better still, configuring the Europa League on a regional basis and geared to include a couple of teams from leagues of our standard. In fact, exactly our standard. Anyone lower can eff off
    That's a nice idea. I'm a fan. Have you ever encountered anyone in an official capacity pushing UEFA for this?

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudulika View Post
    Do you follow the LOI? Shamrock Rovers...........
    Yeah, the Europa League was a big windfall for Rovers but it was still only about 50% of normal revenue. A huge amount but far from enough to enforce a monopoly.

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    Good money wasted on a club who couldn't use it properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    That's a nice idea. I'm a fan. Have you ever encountered anyone in an official capacity pushing UEFA for this?
    I did mention it to Kentaro, the TV rights brokers. They didn't think it was a good idea. One of the guys I am watching the game with tonight is well connected in UEFA so I might bring it up with him.

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    Good money wasted on a club who couldn't use it properly.
    They'd hardly be the first LOI club to waste a couple of hundred grand. Sure Dundalk burned half a million-plus last season between McCaffrey, his staff, playing budget and losing 1000 fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudulika View Post
    Do you follow the LOI? Shamrock Rovers...........
    Yes, I do. Rovers didn't exactly "crack it" though, did they? Yes they qualified but they left a lot of money on the table too by getting null points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    They'd hardly be the first LOI club to waste a couple of hundred grand. Sure Dundalk burned half a million-plus last season between McCaffrey, his staff, playing budget and losing 1000 fans.
    Poor attempt at whataboutery and vain attempt to deflect. The evidence for any point of view on this matter is to be seen on the pitch this season, not in the bluster of your typical footie faux intellectual

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    Poor attempt at whataboutery and vain attempt to deflect. The evidence for any point of view on this matter is to be seen on the pitch this season, not in the bluster of your typical footie faux intellectual
    It's not whataboutery. You implied that other clubs could or would have done better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    It's not whataboutery. You implied that other clubs could or would have done better.
    I implied that other clubs could have gotten as far as the Europa league group stage, earned a 1 million on top and would have used it better than Shamrock Rovers??
    I suppose one could possibly draw that implication if I was being serious and not flippant, but my thinking did not stretch that far towards an implication, conscious or subconscious.
    So Shamrock Rovers did waste the Europa league money?? I just knew that would happen.
    Tell me about it

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    I don't know what the European money has been spent on because the Rovers' board are secretive about financial matters. The temporary stand in Tallaght would have taken out a couple of hundred grand from the budget and Kenny another substantial sum while it's pretty clear there has been a modest increase in the playing budget, however it seems the club's budget has remained roughly the same. The Europa League exposure has opened up a new world of sponsorship opportunities for the club but I don't know the specific amounts involved, but suffice to say they have expanded revenues that way. Overall, I'm sure there is still plenty of money sitting in a bank somewhere as would befit a club who have learned their lesson from bitter financial meltdown.

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    Fascinating though this is, what's the relevance to Ireland playing poorly v.Sweden.
    Regardless of the state of the LOI, we don't have players currently.
    There or elsewhere...

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    It doesn't have any relevance, AB. It's called a conversation - sometimes the topic changes.

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    Isn't the LOI-related discussion rooted in the notion (of which I'm a proponent) that a strong, organised and connected domestic league can only serve to benefit the national team? Trap's comment on the poor or virtually non-existent state of the league sparked it. Indeed, we don't have the players now, nor is there any "conveyor belt" of talent on its way, which is why we desperately need to plan for the future by overhauling Irish football. It is a bit of a pipe-dream though, I admit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy View Post
    Fascinating though this is, what's the relevance to Ireland playing poorly v.Sweden.
    Regardless of the state of the LOI, we don't have players currently.
    There or elsewhere...
    Yes indeed, the manager, any manager, does have a next to impossible job with the Intl team, considering there are no players (worth their salt) in Ireland or elsewhere.

  18. #538
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    So we agree...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy View Post
    So we agree...
    Sure AB, on occasion i can make absolutely idiotic contradictory statements, just as well as the next man. And on those rare occasions, we can come together for a union of like minds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy View Post
    we don't have players currently.
    to do what though? To beat Spain? To defend a lead at home to both Sweden and Austria? To get more than 14 points in a qualification group containing nobody special apart from Germany?

    Even the Faroes gave Germany a game at home.

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