I think the recession started just at the same time the major promotion of the tickets began. The figures had been done and the calculations were that sell the Vantage tickets and all would be well in the garden. Pre-recession they were not "ridiculous vantage tickets". Presumably this was the advice the FAI got from their professional financial advisors. The FAI were stuck between a rock and a hard place. For years they had been crucified for not owning their own ground. They took the sensible decision to part-own the ground with the IRFU. Imagine the damage now if they had gone out on their own?Originally Posted by Alf Honn
One of their main financial issues is that the international games are not being well attended for a number of reasons. When Trap goes, they need to be very careful in who they appoint. Alex F would bring the crowds back for 4 or 5 games or some such "celebrity" UK manager. And of course qualification for Brazil would help.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Doh- so by having no money, just repaying the interest on the debt - thats good for irish football!! There is only one conclusion on how that would affect Irish football!!! Tsk, no money, no fun. Sorry didnt think i had to spell it out! But then I am not an FAI cheerleader
Last edited by bennocelt; 24/07/2013 at 1:38 PM.
the FAI are only paying interest on the stadium as after all their other financial committments are met they cant afford to do otherwise. these "other committments" include investing in Irish football in many different ways but you are trying to suggest that every cent the FAI gets in is used to pay interest.
the FAIs turnover last year was almost €40m. Are you seriously trying to have us believe this all went on stadium interest? please do "spell it out for us" if thats the case.
I'm not a FAI cheerleader either.
I've spelt out very clearly where I am critical of the FAI, both in this thread and in the governance thread. I'd appreciate if you could acknowledge that.
It does not follow from anything I have said here that the FAI being broke is good for Irish football. It obviously isn't. If this forum was properly moderated you wouldn't get away with such persistent childishness.
My point is very simple and I've said it clearly before so I shouldn't have to make it again: the decision to take out a loan to finance their share of the construction of a new stadium was taken at a time when the economy was booming and the conventional wisdom was that revenues would continue to be strong. That's not a mistake unique to the FAI. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of households and thousands of businesses seem to have made the same mistake.
(If you hadn't thanked my gag about rugger buggers singing about gang bags I'd be even angrier!)
Around the 1:40 mark, did JD actually say "implementating" in his 2002 interview about the Genesis report? That by itself should have disqualified him from office!
That's as bad as saying "tremenjous". In fact I got an email from a senior guy in AIB once who actually spelt it that way.
There's that famous urban legend about a former FAI chief who stood up at an AGM and addressed the crowd, saying: "Certain allegations have been made about me and I know who the alligators are."
Your point about the economy of the country is something like what FF would come out with - sure its not there fault at all - blame America, blame 911, blame the recession but whatever you do dont blame the good old boys in the FAI. At least they should be tackling the debt issue in a much more open way - not asking journalists to keep quite about it, or show some accountability and transparency ffs. What do they have to hide!
You also give a few insults out as well - so dont take the high moral ground!
I find it bizarre that some on here (the usual IMHO) are willing to defend the FAI on this issue - did ye guys buy them 10 year tickets or what!!!? Probably
(Stutts - yes you noticed I do give you the odd thanks as well - dont take it so seriously - differing opinions are good in football!! I am not as mad in real life (maybe Ardeebhoy would disagree, ha), internet forums bring it out in me, ha)
I don't know, you tell me - all those centres of excellence's that have sprung up around the country maybe?
I know from where i am that grassroots football investment might as well be thrown down the drain - as you have the same cronies that were their since the 80's, doing sweet FA, sure they have all weather pitches but that's no good without proper coaching and the ego driven strangle hold that junior football has in this country
Sure Delaney's salary and expenses must be half that now
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
---
New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
...which is where I'm very critical of the FAI. I'm able to separate stadium finance from an inability / unwillingness to take on vested interests.
Anyway, a good example regarding finance and timing is Arsenal. They financed a large chunk of their new stadium with a bank loan on reasonably expensive terms, for that time anyway. There was a small syndicate of banks who made the loan, including Bank of Ireland and also AIB I think. In 2006 they repaid the loan because they were able to get long term funding from the bond market on cheaper terms. The bond would have been rated around BBB by the rating agencies so they arranged for a specialist AAA rated insurer called MBIA to insure the investors against default. With the bonds now AAA rated a broad set of new clients were attracted to invest and on terms that may never again be achievable in our lifetime. Arsenal were able to lock in long term cheap finance. If they had waited until 2008 they'd have been stuck with the original bank loan and the barely solvent banks would have used any trick to get their money back. MBIA eventually went bust.
Arsenal were definitely sensible to build the stadium as they can generate good match day income to compete with the big European teams. But added to that good sense was a large dose of luck with regard to timing. On the other hand Liverpool's new owners saddled the club with a bank loan in 2007(?) maturing in 2009, with a view to a permanent refinancing. Both lenders (RBS and Wachovia) were bust by the time the loan was due to be rolled over! Who'd have guessed that in early 2007?
Maybe the FAI could have gone to the market in 2006 but that was when Stan was in charge. When we were losing in Cyprus the rugger boys were winning the 6 nations and winning in Twickenham, that biennial freebie that allowed the golden generation off the hook for under performing during the boom years.
That's totally different to FF and AIB blaming US sub-prime for Ireland's woes. They sowed the seeds of a disaster almost entirely of their own making, the only common feature with sub-prime being that credit was cheap and plentiful almost everywhere at the time.
As an aside: Does anyone know if the IRFU sold premium seats to the banks in 2006 and what the FAI expected to generate from the banks?
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 24/07/2013 at 5:13 PM.
Few points.
Blockbooked 10 yr tkts are diff to Premium tkts. The target market for Premium was the prawn sandwich brigade people of 'high net worth' we were told. Blockbooking tickets are normal price so don't generate the millions Vantage was supposed to. Anyway, we were told 6,000 premiums sold, which on an average 20k per ticket, comes to 120 mill squids. If the debt is still 60+ million, something don't add up there.
Re Turnover. Of the 39 million, 8 million came from Euro qualifying and 3 million from UEFA hattrick (paid once every four yrs). Take out the other 3 million of Dept of Sports grants (that's money from taxpayers like us all).
That leaves, in reality, 25 million income. If qualifying isn't factored to forecasts in as they claim, where in God's name is the profit coming from to pay this monster debt off!
In the meantime, development officers get laid off, the LoI prize pot is slashed and the first club opening rd whitewash (save us Derry, please) in Europe for about 15 yrs.
To be fair, that was a massive lie.Anyway, we were told 6,000 premiums sold, which on an average 20k per ticket, comes to 120 mill squids. If the debt is still 60+ million, something don't add up there.
Football family being misled?...Cmon!
Btw, I'm all for FAI being part-owner of stadium (shouldve had their own with eircom), but its the cost plan and guff that stinks. If they came out and said 2030 debt free, would it be such a disaster? Only show that someone made a major mistake.
Delaney always said that this number of 6300 included sponsorship commitments. He would never give a number on how many tickets had actually been sold, and at what prices.
When ISG ended their partnership with the FAI in 2010, the Indo reported that 4077 tickets had been allocated. This included 939 10-year tickets bought for up to €7,500 in either 2004 or 2006 at the old Landsdowne, who didn't have to pay the new Vantage prices. It was hoped/expected that the buyers would renew the tickets at the new Vantage prices, but these ticket holders don't have to decide whether to renew their tickets until 2014 or 2016.
I wanted to read today's article comparing the finances of the FAI, IRFU and GAA but it now says it's members only and there's a hefty joining fee.
Can anyone access today's article?
did you try the one month free trial?
you can read part of the article on google cache here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ss.com/?p=8716
Thanks. I didn't sign up for the trial as it promised to get back only within 72 hours. I wondered if there was a quicker route!
Last few posts moved to Rubbish. If you have a problem with a post, or private message, report it.
FAI reported to be putting together a deal that will reduce debt by €10 million.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29859208.html
Hope it comes off.
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
You'd wonder how that works, getting a 60m debt written down to 50m?
A normal bit of business before christmas? There must be lots of lenders out there, susceptible to the festive cheer, just ready to write your debt down to manageable levels, at the stroke of a pen.
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