Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[mark12345]

Time for interesting stat of the day.

We had 4 shots on target 2 of them occurred in the 7 minutes Robbie Brady was on the pitch, he play a part in both of them,
one of them resulted in a goal.

So average time per shot on target with Brady on the pitch, 3.5 minutes.
an average time per shot on target minus Brady on the pitch 41.5 minutes.

Thus we have nearly 12 times more shots on target with Brady on the pitch.

Average time per goal with Brady on the pitch 7 minutes.
Average time per goal without Brady on the pitch infinite.

Time between goals conceded with Brady on the pitch 13 minute 10 seconds
Time between goals with Brady on the pitch, infinite.

Thus one can calculate that if we start Brady on the away leg we will beat German 13-0 assuming we get a couple of minutes of extra time.

That I think would mean we can top the Group whatever German do with overall goals 14-6 in our favour.

Good point about Robbie Brady. Anyone with half a brain can see that he's a threat, perhaps not a totally polished one at the current time but he does pose a threat to the opposition and it speaks volumes for him that, as you say, we had two of our four shots while he was on the pitch. Now I have all the respect in the world for John Walters but again, anyone with half a brain would have known that playing John from the start against Germany was only for 'out ball' reasons. That is to say the thinking was that when we were under pressure we would hoof it long to Walters.

But again, the question must be asked = why did Brady and Long not start as our front pair? They carry the most threat. The reason they didn't start, remember Trap alluded to Brady not having enough experience beforehand, is that the manager stayed loyal to his more experienced players. And that is a fatal flaw in football. Play your in form players and to heck with loyalty. It happened before at the Euros when Gibson was left out for Green. And as far as I'm concerned Trap has lost the dressing room because of this loyalty thing.

One other thing. If you take it at it's most basic level, you could say that we started the game without our three most creative players - Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Ireland and Andy Reid. I know they are all not there for one reason or another, but the point is they were all available for selection and I tell you what, Germany would not have had half of the possession they had last Friday, if all three played. Just a thought. I still think we would have lost the game with all three there - but it is yet another factor to take into account when judging Il Trap.

[The Fly]

One other thing. If you take it at it's most basic level, you could say that we started the game without our three most creative players - Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Ireland and Andy Reid. I know they are all not there for one reason or another, but the point is they were all available for selection and I tell you what, Germany would not have had half of the possession they had last Friday, if all three played. Just a thought.

It might have reduced their possession stats by around 2 or 3%. Don't kid yourself!

...and Stephen Ireland is not available for selection by the way.

But again, the question must be asked = why did Brady and Long not start as our front pair? They carry the most threat. The reason they didn't start, remember Trap alluded to Brady not having enough experience beforehand, is that the manager stayed loyal to his more experienced players. And that is a fatal flaw in football. Play your in form players and to heck with loyalty. It happened before at the Euros when Gibson was left out for Green. And as far as I'm concerned Trap has lost the dressing room because of this loyalty thing.

Brady plays for Manchester United's reserve team. That's the reason he didn't start.

[mark12345]

Manager = old word for coach. No difference nowadays.

[mark12345]

You are correct, Stephen Ireland is injured at the moment isn't he. Look, I'm not saying we would have won by any stretch, but I think with those three lads on the pitch we would have held the ball longer and therefore nullified an amount of the German threat, but not that much.

But your point on Brady I don't get. The reason he didn't start is because he's a Man United reserve. I don't care if he plays for Bluebell United. The lad took on the might of the German defence and had them in trouble on a couple of occassions. He was only on the pitch, what eight minutes. So your point about being a MU reserve doesn't hold water.

[trapiscrap1]

Hey guys how do you think Ireland are going to do against Faroe Islands?
I am new on this forum, and i must admit I am a bit of a newcomer to football!
I used to only be into the rugby, but then i heard the soccer team had qualified for the european championships and i got on board.
But we got hammered by every team and we never seem to win! What has this italian trapattoni done to the team?
I have never even heard of the faroe islands but i am expecting a loss because in my short time supporting the team already we seem to lose all the time!


Hope to have some good discussions with you guys on here! all the best

[Stuttgart88]

All the stats in the world can be cited but at virtually all time Germany knew what they were doing with the ball, we never looked like that. Germany virtually never played a speculative pass, we were always playing balls into areas rather than people. I was struck by how many times a German forward or wide player made a good run but the midfielder played a simple pass, knowing another opportunity would come. Never once did the runner complain about being ignored. We'd have always tried to hit the runner, and if he didn't get it he'd moan. I've seen it at all levels down the years. The Germans' footballing intelligence was on a different planet. The German players alll wanted the ball, tight spot or not. Our always hoped it'd go to someone else.

There was one example early in the second half, mcgeady had one player ahead of him and played a pass to nobody. That said it all, both about mcgeady and our team.

[The Fly]

You are correct, Stephen Ireland is injured at the moment isn't he.

Injury aside, he doesn't want to play for his country. Until he does, he shouldn't feature in any discussion on Trapattoni's tenure.

But your point on Brady I don't get. The reason he didn't start is because he's a Man United reserve. I don't care if he plays for Bluebell United. The lad took on the might of the German defence and had them in trouble on a couple of occassions. He was only on the pitch, what eight minutes. So your point about being a MU reserve doesn't hold water.

Of course it holds water. He isn't playing regular first team football. Regardless of his potential, he would not have had the match fitness to start...let alone against one of the two premier national sides in world football.

I hope he gets more game time against the Faroes however.

[Diarmo]

I'm going to hazard a guess at the starting XI for Tuesday:

I'd hope:

Westwood
Kelly O'Shea Clark Wilson
Coleman McCarthy Meyler Brady
Long Walters

I expect:


Westwood
Coleman O'Shea O'Dea Ward
Cox McCarthy Andrews McGeady
Walters Keane

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm going to hazard a guess at the starting XI for Tuesday:

I'd hope:

Westwood
Kelly O'Shea Clark Wilson
Coleman McCarthy Meyler Brady
Long Walters

I expect:


Westwood
Coleman O'Shea O'Dea Ward
Cox McCarthy Andrews McGeady
Walters Keane

Why would you play 442?

[Diarmo]

Why would you play 442?

Because 4-5-1 has been such a massive success?

[trapiscrap1]

Hi guys, new to this forum! Hope you will all welcome me!
Have to admit i have only recentley gotten into the soccer. I was mainly into the rugby and then i heard that the soccer team had qualified for the european championships so i got on board!!
But since then it has just been loss after loss, what is this italian mafioso trapattoni doing to the team guys??
Will a new manager make us any better and make us compete for world cups and european championships?

Look forward to having some good debates with you guys on here, all the best.

[Stuttgart88]

That's Trap talk! "I told you 433 wouldn't work". Like playing McCarthy in advanced midfield against Uruguay, or McClean in the middlke against Serbia.*

I'd go 442 v Faroes though - unless they have a 5 man talented midfield capable of outpassing us all night.

* btw, Brian Kerr has form here. Stephen Elliott wide right at home to Croatia.

[IsMiseSean]

I think Trap will drop one of O'Dea or Ward. Hopefully both!!

[Charlie Darwin]

Because 4-5-1 has been such a massive success?

It was more of a success than the 442 we switched to then swiftly conceded three goals in ten minutes.

That's Trap talk! "I told you 433 wouldn't work". Like playing McCarthy in advanced midfield against Uruguay, or McClean in the middlke against Serbia.*

I'd go 442 v Faroes though - unless they have a 5 man talented midfield capable of outpassing us all night.

Why? It'd be another game to get to grips with the new formation and it's not like it's impossible to attack.

[Noelys Guitar]

The Kenny Cunningham/Kevin Kilbane interview on Newstalk. Some very revealing stuff from Kilbane on what is going with the team. Apparently Trapatonni says nothing in the dressing room at half time. Not a word. The senior players do all the talking.
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/cunnin...34459-Oct2012/

[tricky_colour]

Good point about Robbie Brady. Anyone with half a brain can see that he's a threat, perhaps not a totally polished one at the current time but he does pose a threat to the opposition and it speaks volumes for him that, as you say, we had two of our four shots while he was on the pitch. Now I have all the respect in the world for John Walters but again, anyone with half a brain would have known that playing John from the start against Germany was only for 'out ball' reasons. That is to say the thinking was that when we were under pressure we would hoof it long to Walters.

But again, the question must be asked = why did Brady and Long not start as our front pair? They carry the most threat. The reason they didn't start, remember Trap alluded to Brady not having enough experience beforehand, is that the manager stayed loyal to his more experienced players. And that is a fatal flaw in football. Play your in form players and to heck with loyalty. It happened before at the Euros when Gibson was left out for Green. And as far as I'm concerned Trap has lost the dressing room because of this loyalty thing.

One other thing. If you take it at it's most basic level, you could say that we started the game without our three most creative players - Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Ireland and Andy Reid. I know they are all not there for one reason or another, but the point is they were all available for selection and I tell you what, Germany would not have had half of the possession they had last Friday, if all three played. Just a thought. I still think we would have lost the game with all three there - but it is yet another factor to take into account when judging Il Trap.

It is a lovely build up for Andy Keogh's shot, Brady plays some great passes, a nice weighted pass down the channel to Walter and good
movement to provide an outlet for Walters, there are 3 Germans dealing with the two of them at this point as situation in which we would fail
19 times out of 20. Robbie plays a great tight return ball into an almost impossible spot the weight has to be just right, and it is,
this draws in four German defenders, (that's almost half the team!!), but there is an out ball to Coleman who has taken the chance to
get forward as is his habit, Coleman has a bit of space now and works it to thread a great ball through to Keogh who is unlucky not to score.

So for a brief moment there we looked like German and Germany were the ones chasing shadows, in fact we looked like Barcelona!!!

So that is the positive I take from the game.

How Brady is rated Ireland worst player by both the users and Sky is utterly baffling to me, I would rate him our best player,
as I did against Oman.

Also rated poorly on goal.com "Took the corner which led to the consolation strike, but did little else" - laughable, but he does get more thumbs up
than any other Iirish player there.

[tricky_colour]

Why would you play 442?

It's easier to arrange the deck chairs like that on a narrow ship

[tricky_colour]

Trap says Brady does not have enough experience, if he means experience of losing whilst he is on the pitch I whole heartedly agree, he has none. (IIRC).

And I would play him for that reason alone even if every bone in his body was broken!!

[the bear]

That's Trap talk! "I told you 433 wouldn't work". Like playing McCarthy in advanced midfield against Uruguay, or McClean in the middlke against Serbia.*

I'd go 442 v Faroes though - unless they have a 5 man talented midfield capable of outpassing us all night.

* btw, Brian Kerr has form here. Stephen Elliott wide right at home to Croatia.

It makes no difference what formation you line up in when you can't keep the ball or get close to the opposition when they have it.

In my eyes we played no different than in any other game on Friday. We sat off them and let them play just like any other team we play. They were just ruthless with their finishing. Their game is excellent, based on doing the easy things extremely well. Our game is based on trying to get the ball close to their box and hoping for the best.

We mightn't have the greatest set of players in the world but we are definitely good enough to hold onto the ball for more than 3 passes. A well drilled team playing with confidence and direction can be a lot better than the sum of its parts. The Germans showed exactly how to do it, simply moving into space a picking out easy balls, working as a team together.

Trap just has to go. He has shown no ability to change. He hasn't learnt from previous defeats. His communication is abysmal. The team is playing with absolute zero confidence. His decision making is bizarre.

It is still a possibility that we can stumble into another playoff playing in this stoneage manner but whats the point. We will get rolled over by every decent technical team we face. Better off getting a new man in and use the rest of this campaign to bed him in. Ones thing for sure though, Trap won't walk and I don't think the FAI can afford to push him. So we are probably stuck with this muck for a while more.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, I agree that when all you do is play behind the ball it's academic what nominal shape you line up in. But you'd hope that we do a bit more than that against the Faroes.