Serbia V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 15th August 2012 - Friendly

[Fixer82]

Trap was riht not to risk him before start of season but this has all still been handled very poorly by the management

[Charlie Darwin]

They both could have handled it better. We know Trap has a bit of a loose tongue but I expected better from Long, though he is understandably frustrated. It'll all blow over.

[Junior]

I am disappointed with Long going to the press in that manner. There was only ever going to be one outcome from what he sad to them and this is what has transpired.

[Fixer82]

True but the managemer knows better. He's been round the block a good few times. if he'd handled Long correctly I don't imagine Long would've spoken out of school like that.
This is happening too much with Trap: The two Reids, Gibson, Walters, Foley etc etc

[Murfinator]

Trap was riht not to risk him before start of season but this has all still been handled very poorly by the management

True but the managemer knows better. He's been round the block a good few times. if he'd handled Long correctly I don't imagine Long would've spoken out of school like that.
This is happening too much with Trap: The two Reids, Gibson, Walters, Foley etc etc

Some people will criticise the management for anything. A player was told he wasn't fit by the medical staff and wasn't playing from the manager, he went over their head to the media to complain about the decision. There is one person out of line here and it's Shane Long.

If he did this at his club he'd be fined a weeks wages

[Noelys Guitar]

Some people will criticise the management for anything. A player was told he wasn't fit by the medical staff and wasn't playing from the manager, he went over their head to the media to complain about the decision. There is one person out of line here and it's Shane Long.

If he did this at his club he'd be fined a weeks wages

Nobody from the Irish medical staff said Long was unfit to play. Trapatonni alone made the call. Why keep repeating something that isn't true. I'll speculate why he deliberately made the call on Long and it has all to do with Robbie Keane. In the rest of the press conference Trap went on to say he would be reverting to type against Kazackstan ie 442. And he sent out a public message to Keane and Dunne (Keane has yet to reply to a message Trap sent him)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...pe-204470.html

[Bungle]

I was encouraged by Trap playing McClean and McCarthy. I was delighted that Kelly came back in to the team. I'm delighted that Westwood showed that he can be our new number 1 and possibly for a very long time. I thought O'Dea put in another very decent shift for us - is he another player that finds his best form for Ireland and puts club difficulties behind him? I thought it was good seeing O'Shea play in the centre. It was great to see Joey O'Brien come on. I really liked him as a young lad at Bolton.

It was a real pity that Wilson, Pilkington and Hoolahan couldn't make the trip. All 3 are players I would like to see in or around the starting 11. This wasn't Trap's fault, although they all should have played in the last campaign and be established players in our team/squad by now. It was a crying shame that Seamus Coleman didn't start - Trap doesn't trust him at all and would rather McShane?? I mean I can see how Coleman is still naive enough to be exposed defensively by the Germanys of this world, but he offers alot going forward and in a place like Kazakhstan would provide so much more than McShane, a player it pains me to criticise, because he loves Ireland so much, but should be nowhere near even our 2nd team, let alone starting games for us.

Big disappointment that Long didn't start - here is a player that loves putting on the green jersey and has the talent to become a very very big player for us over the next 8 or so years and would appear to have been treated like dirt, just like he was at the Euros. I can't help but feel that Trap will burn bridges with alot of our players over the next 2 years. I genuinely fear that this could get very messy, if we don't get off to a good start. I mean texting Robbie Keane, a player who has played for us for the last 14 years and has been our captain?? Why couldn't he ring him?? It's all so shabby. Trap's inability to communicate is so different to that of Michael O'Neill up North, who appears to make players feel wanted. Would Trap know about Ryan Mcloughlin of Liverpool? I doubt it. He knew about Greg Cunningham, only because Mancini let him know about him. These are the small details that are essential in the world of international managers of small/medium size countries.

[Charlie Darwin]

He said he rang Robbie but he didn't answer.

[Bungle]

He said he rang Robbie but he didn't answer.

I had heard that he sent him a text, but that he hadn't replied yet. If he did try and ring him, then fair enough.

For me, on the whole Trap has done a good job. He almost qualified us for a world cup and got us to the Euros with a very average team. He deserves credit for that. Very decent Irish teams have failed to qualify for tournaments and perhaps could have done with a bit of Trap's organisational abilities. When he leaves, he is likely to leave us at a far better seeding level, than what he inherited.

However, I would have serious concerns about his ability to communicate with players. The likes of S.Ireland are one thing, but he has had numerous fallings out with players. Some of these players have the potential to be very good for us in the future. Maybe, some of them are modern footballers who aren't too pushed about playing for their country and got up his back with their indifferent attitude, but it has happened to Trap, far more often, than our other previous managers for my liking. His treatment of a young lad like McCarthy, who had to put up with so much sectarian vile for playing with us, was totally insensitive. His decisions to play the likes of Paul Green ahead of McCarthy or Gibson at points throughout his tenure were both baffling and disgraceful and if I were James McCarthy, I would be wondering why did I bother playing for Ireland with decisions like that.

Like I said, in the last post, the ability to know the small detail is vital for countries like Ireland. I doubt very much that Trap has the knowledge of the talented underage players bubbling under like Carruthers or Forde etc, or the lads in the LOI that could become the next Shane Long. Does he know the lads from up North like Ryan McLoughlin who would probably love to play for us or is he chasing and finding out about the English lads of Irish descent that could make a big difference to our team and be the Aldos or Townsends of future campaigns? I don't expect Trap to know every 15 year old in the country with talent, but I do expect him to have an interest in looking at our player base and trying to broaden it where possible.

[paul_oshea]

Ya I think everyone knows Trap doesn't put the time and effort into researching this, maybe he doesnt see it as part of his remit. That should all have been ironed out when he got the contract but I think naivety on the FAI and others at the prospect of getting a manager of his stature blinded the important details.

I dont think this is just out of the blue with Trap either. I'd say Long is(more) in the wrong here, but that he is just fecked off, with how he is being treated by Trap, and has been. He hasn't got any real chance for Ireland or regular/consistent caps. He sees the likes of journeymen like cox getting in ahead that cant even make the subs bench sometimes at his own club. He goes to the Euros sees how poor we play, still doesnt get a chance, he turns up for Serbia away, in a meaningless friendly and still doesnt get a chance to play. YOu have to feel for the lad, but this isn't a single outburst, this has been bubbling up over a long time now, and the lid came off last wednesday. He was probably wrong in this instance, but right overall. What else does a man do other than go to the press to mount his frustration? There is only so much talking you can do to the manager.

[Charlie Darwin]

I would suspect Trap relies on Tardelli to keep him up to date on underage players, and I would guess Tardelli has a good relationship with Noel King and Paul Doolin. I'm sure Liam Brady contributes his opinion too.

[SwanVsDalton]

Does he know the lads from up North like Ryan McLoughlin who would probably love to play for us or is he chasing and finding out about the English lads of Irish descent that could make a big difference to our team and be the Aldos or Townsends of future campaigns? I don't expect Trap to know every 15 year old in the country with talent, but I do expect him to have an interest in looking at our player base and trying to broaden it where possible.

Regardless how you feel about them - Westwood, Green, McClean suggest otherwise. I don't think Trap has great knowledge of who might come through but I do think the people around him alert him fairly quickly when they are on the radar. Particularly Tardelli who I reckons knows quite a bit of what's going on between scouting and just being more present.

TBH I think the argument's a bit of a red herring - as yet, no one has really slipped through the cracks. He hasn't picked Hoolahan, Pilkington etc simply because he hasn't wanted to pick them. Ryan McLaughlin isn't off the table yet but, even then, there's a 200 odd page on this forum indicating the strife related to calling up northerners. Simply put if McLaughlin wants to play ROI ball all he has to do is declare.

He goes to the Euros sees how poor we play, still doesnt get a chance, he turns up for Serbia away, in a meaningless friendly and still doesnt get a chance to play. YOu have to feel for the lad, but this isn't a single outburst, this has been bubbling up over a long time now, and the lid came off last wednesday. He was probably wrong in this instance, but right overall. What else does a man do other than go to the press to mount his frustration? There is only so much talking you can do to the manager.

It's not just you that's mentioned it, but I can't stand this 'he turned up for a meaningless friendly and was badly treated' argument. Long should turn up - he was fit, he was called up, he should go. So should anyone, within reason, imo. It's their job and pretty sweet one at that.

As for chances, Trap picked Long for squads and teams regularly when he was shooting blanks for Reading. Regardless of frustration I'd suggest if Long wanted to maximise his chances, he should've kept schtum. It's not like he's Kevin Foley or Wes Hoolahan, Trap quite evidently likes him.

With Keane possibly being eased out, even retiring, Long is Trap's recorded preferred replacement. Who knows what he is now.

[Junior]

His treatment of a young lad like McCarthy, who had to put up with so much sectarian vile for playing with us, was totally insensitive. His decisions to play the likes of Paul Green ahead of McCarthy or Gibson at points throughout his tenure were both baffling and disgraceful and if I were James McCarthy, I would be wondering why did I bother playing for Ireland with decisions like that.

Some good posts there Bungle but just on the above point. I think this gets lost on players quite a bit, when they retire early or say in the case of Foley currently standing down from being available for selection because of the issue with Trap (Pre Euro's).

You are choosing to play for your country (if indeed a choice is required at all), you are not choosing to play under a certain manager or under a certain system, you are making yourself available to represent your country and play if selected. Managers, formations change all the time but the principle of representing your country doesnt change.

All IMO of course and I suppose players who choose their nationality based on a career choice would beg to differ. James certainly doesnt fall in to that category.

[Bungle]

Some good posts there Bungle but just on the above point. I think this gets lost on players quite a bit, when they retire early or say in the case of Foley currently standing down from being available for selection because of the issue with Trap (Pre Euro's).

You are choosing to play for your country (if indeed a choice is required at all), you are not choosing to play under a certain manager or under a certain system, you are making yourself available to represent your country and play if selected. Managers, formations change all the time but the principle of representing your country doesnt change.

All IMO of course and I suppose players who choose their nationality based on a career choice would beg to differ. James certainly doesnt fall in to that category.

Fair point there.

[Bungle]

Regardless how you feel about them - Westwood, Green, McClean suggest otherwise. I don't think Trap has great knowledge of who might come through but I do think the people around him alert him fairly quickly when they are on the radar. Particularly Tardelli who I reckons knows quite a bit of what's going on between scouting and just being more present. TBH I think the argument's a bit of a red herring - as yet, no one has really slipped through the cracks. He hasn't picked Hoolahan, Pilkington etc simply because he hasn't wanted to pick them. Ryan McLaughlin isn't off the table yet but, even then, there's a 200 odd page on this forum indicating the strife related to calling up northerners. Simply put if McLaughlin wants to play ROI ball all he has to do is declare.



It's not just you that's mentioned it, but I can't stand this 'he turned up for a meaningless friendly and was badly treated' argument. Long should turn up - he was fit, he was called up, he should go. So should anyone, within reason, imo. It's their job and pretty sweet one at that.

As for chances, Trap picked Long for squads and teams regularly when he was shooting blanks for Reading. Regardless of frustration I'd suggest if Long wanted to maximise his chances, he should've kept schtum. It's not like he's Kevin Foley or Wes Hoolahan, Trap quite evidently likes him.

With Keane possibly being eased out, even retiring, Long is Trap's recorded preferred replacement. Who knows what he is now.

I have been very impressed with Tardelli. I get the impression that he is quietly in Trap's ear about certain players and that if he were manager, then he might be more likely to give lads a go. He comes across as the kind of guy who is very open to listening to others and would seek out people like Noel King. As much as I have a liking for Trap as a person and would respect his considerable achievements in the game, I'm less sure if he'd be so likely to shoot the breeze with Noel about our u21s etc.

[Bungle]

Ya I think everyone knows Trap doesn't put the time and effort into researching this, maybe he doesnt see it as part of his remit. That should all have been ironed out when he got the contract but I think naivety on the FAI and others at the prospect of getting a manager of his stature blinded the important details.I dont think this is just out of the blue with Trap either. I'd say Long is(more) in the wrong here, but that he is just fecked off, with how he is being treated by Trap, and has been. He hasn't got any real chance for Ireland or regular/consistent caps. He sees the likes of journeymen like cox getting in ahead that cant even make the subs bench sometimes at his own club. He goes to the Euros sees how poor we play, still doesnt get a chance, he turns up for Serbia away, in a meaningless friendly and still doesnt get a chance to play. YOu have to feel for the lad, but this isn't a single outburst, this has been bubbling up over a long time now, and the lid came off last wednesday. He was probably wrong in this instance, but right overall. What else does a man do other than go to the press to mount his frustration? There is only so much talking you can do to the manager.

Good point that. I think the FAI were so relieved to be getting a proven top manager after the mess of the previous regime, that I'd say there was very little in the way of ironing out what would be expected of Trap.

[jbyrne]

Nobody from the Irish medical staff said Long was unfit to play. Trapatonni alone made the call. Why keep repeating something that isn't true. I'll speculate why he deliberately made the call on Long and it has all to do with Robbie Keane. In the rest of the press conference Trap went on to say he would be reverting to type against Kazackstan ie 442. And he sent out a public message to Keane and Dunne (Keane has yet to reply to a message Trap sent him)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...pe-204470.html

so why was Long sent for a scan?

[paul_oshea]

It's not just you that's mentioned it, but I can't stand this 'he turned up for a meaningless friendly and was badly treated' argument. Long should turn up - he was fit, he was called up, he should go. So should anyone, within reason, imo. It's their job and pretty sweet one at that.

As for chances, Trap picked Long for squads and teams regularly when he was shooting blanks for Reading. Regardless of frustration I'd suggest if Long wanted to maximise his chances, he should've kept schtum. It's not like he's Kevin Foley or Wes Hoolahan, Trap quite evidently likes him.

With Keane possibly being eased out, even retiring, Long is Trap's recorded preferred replacement. Who knows what he is now.

Ya post olympic hangover perhaps i got caught up in the wave of the olympics buzz over here. Playing for your country is never meaningless. But having said that , my point pretty much still stands, there wasnt even a game played of the new season when lads were pulled from their clubs, especially someone like long who needs to impress, and brought on international duty, after an olympics where many are questioning football players in light of the conduct, humility and professionalism of the olympic athletes, turning out for your country like you have done in years gone by only to be shunted for lessser lights, in your opinion, even when you have a decent international goal-scoring record, with decent performances to match, when so many others have pulled out, you have seen a terrible Euro campaign all from the bench, having never fairly been given a consisten run, or even run of games, given when you have played you have performed admirably, even you would question a decision whereby you believe you are fit and then the manager protrays - like i said with foley before the euros - to the media and everyone else you were not, to cover his own backside because he wanted to make a change. Especially if you don't realise the manager might feel in a better position to judge your fitness.

[SwanVsDalton]

Ya post olympic hangover perhaps i got caught up in the wave of the olympics buzz over here. Playing for your country is never meaningless. But having said that , my point pretty much still stands, there wasnt even a game played of the new season when lads were pulled from their clubs, especially someone like long who needs to impress, and brought on international duty, after an olympics where many are questioning football players in light of the conduct, humility and professionalism of the olympic athletes, turning out for your country like you have done in years gone by only to be shunted for lessser lights, in your opinion, even when you have a decent international goal-scoring record, with decent performances to match, when so many others have pulled out, you have seen a terrible Euro campaign all from the bench, having never fairly been given a consisten run, or even run of games, given when you have played you have performed admirably, even you would question a decision whereby you believe you are fit and then the manager protrays - like i said with foley before the euros - to the media and everyone else you were not, to cover his own backside because he wanted to make a change. Especially if you don't realise the manager might feel in a better position to judge your fitness.

I can see Long's frustration, a lot of sympathy in that regard. But Trap's said he sees him specifically as Keane's successor (a worthy title), so seems certain he'll be getting plenty of chances very soon (or would've have been, permitting any extra fall out).

Also I really don't buy any suggestion Trap's playing silly buggers by selecting Long but then withdrawing him under false pretenses - it just doesn't make sense. Not sure if you're actually suggesting this, but seen it mentioned a couple of times...

Firstly if Trap's trying to cover himself, it's evidently creating a lot of heat (same with Foley).

Secondly, and more importantly, I just can't see why Gio Trapattoni, a famously obdurate and combative presence, would be afraid of just dropping someone or not playing him. He's hasn't been afraid of it with the Reid's, Foley, countless others and he certainly hasn't been afraid of going toe-to-toe with the media over his selections. If he didn't want to play Long, he just wouldn't play him.

[Murfinator]

so why was Long sent for a scan?

Its a Robbie Keane conspiracy, don't let the facts get in the way.