Rugby 2012

**Macy** · 01/05/2012, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Many of the top players in the provincial teams are foreigners.

Not sure that really stacks up. Only position that excuse can really be pointed to is tight head, and even there the options are coming. Leinster had basically an all irish front row (well it will be come later this year) as did Ulster. More than enough strength and depth to do better than we have been doing in recent seasons - the team has been going backwards since the Grand Slam.

**Schumi** · 01/05/2012, 4:09 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Many of the top players in the provincial teams are foreigners.

Leinster started 3 foreigners on Sunday, in positions occupied by Paul O'Connell, Rory Best and Tommy Bowe for Ireland (the captain, vice-captain and top try scorer in the 6 nations). There are bigger differences than personnel between Leinster and Ireland.

**Mr A** · 01/05/2012, 4:15 PM

Ulster started 4 foreign players, although admittedly they did score all the points! On the other hand Ulster had a good sprinkling of up and coming Irish players. Disappointed to see some of the sniping in the IT letter section today. Have to say I laughed though! http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/in...#1224315406141

**Charlie Darwin** · 01/05/2012, 4:49 PM

I was very impressed that 4 South Africans were able to so comprehensively outplay 15 Scotsmen. You'd think only having 4 men would leave them a little exposed around the ruck but fair play to them, they made all the tackles.

**Stuttgart88** · 02/05/2012, 8:49 AM

The letters that preceded the response were interesting. I was at the 1999 final and thought there was a very unpleasant element to the support that traveled down. I found the range of flags quite interesting!

**Real ale Madrid** · 02/05/2012, 11:30 AM

Rob Penney has been named as Munster's new head coach.

Penney has led Canterbury to 4 succesive NPC's in New Zealand.

Looks like a great signing.

**Macy** · 03/05/2012, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Rob Penney has been named as Munster's new head coach.

Penney has led Canterbury to 4 succesive NPC's in New Zealand.

Looks like a great signing.

A bit surprising that they went with a forwards coach - personally I think they should've just gone with Foley rather than another forwards specialist. I wonder as well did it hamper their options with the stipulation that Foley had to be kept on as forwards coach, as it can't be ideal to have the annointed successor in the wings? A bit strange the mention of the work permit in the press release, like they aren't that confident of getting it (doubt it'll be an issue, but perhaps should be).

**Real ale Madrid** · 03/05/2012, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

A bit surprising that they went with a forwards coach - personally I think they should've just gone with Foley rather than another forwards specialist. I wonder as well did it hamper their options with the stipulation that Foley had to be kept on as forwards coach, as it can't be ideal to have the annointed successor in the wings? A bit strange the mention of the work permit in the press release, like they aren't that confident of getting it (doubt it'll be an issue, but perhaps should be).

Too much emphasis on speciality when talking about the head coach - Penney is the best man from what I believe is available. He has a proven track record of winning rugby with differing styles of play, using the best players available to him, and he's also adept at bringing the best out of young talent which is going to be the No.1 priority over the next few seasons. OK - its important to bring in a good backs coach given that he is slightly forward orientated. The only worry I might have is that Foley may not be Penney's No.1 choice for forwards coach.

**Stuttgart88** · 08/05/2012, 11:16 AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...17.html?via=mr

Gerry Thornley describing some of the economic / league design issues I was asking about above.

**Macy** · 08/05/2012, 11:41 AM

I generally, and genuinely, like Thornley and much of that makes sense. However, his banging on about the supposed new policy is getting a bit wearing tbh. It is broke, and the IRFU are attempting to fix it. There is an issue in certain positions. He'd be better arguing that it should go back to a more case by case basis, than trying to argue all is rosey when it obviously isn't in some positions. He's right on the AIL though.

I had heard that the French were making moves on HEC qualification, and the Boards.ie/ talking rugby podcast, but it never got expanded on. You can see their point to a degree - maybe some compromise will be reached on the Rabo (X on league position, but at least one qualifier from each union) - but doesn't really stake up for Leinster, Munster and Ulster as they'd qualify anyway.

**Stuttgart88** · 08/05/2012, 2:01 PM

Here's an article I saw by Paul Ackford back in January which I have to admit seemed to hold some validity at the time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rug...in-Europe.html

Here's a more recent piece though which counters that argument.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rug...schedules.html

**Macy** · 08/05/2012, 2:13 PM

Using the top 8 that McCafferty proposes in the first article, then it would mean Ireland still has 4 qualifiers this year, and the big losers are the italians. Gotta say, I'd assumed that they'd want to cut the number of Rabo places rather than have it on an even footing. It does have it's merits, but it's easy to say from the current position of Irish rugby I suppose. I think the bottom line is that the provinces are just quite good at the moment, whilst the English teams aren't. Obviously the English don't like to admit that!

**Schumi** · 08/05/2012, 9:27 PM

It sounds more equitable to have equal numbers of qualifiers from each of the three leagues but the Heineken Cup qualification set-up predates the Pro-12/Celtic League. Welsh and Italian clubs used to qualify from their domestic leagues, Ireland got 3 places for provinces and Scotland got 2 places for their new regional teams. It's only that these teams all play in the same league now (after the Welsh and Italians changed to regional teams as well) that it looks worse.

I wouldn't be entirely against the idea of having the top-7 from England, France and the Pro-12, a place for any country with no qualifiers (Italy or occasionally Scotland really) and some kind of play-offs for the last place or two. The idea that this would improve the quality much is a red herring though. Replacing Connacht, Glasgow and Aironi with Exeter, Wasps and Bayonne this year for example wouldn't make a huge difference. Any change will be to make more money for English and French teams.

**Macy** · 18/05/2012, 9:23 AM

The reorganisation of European Competition was discussed on the Talking Rugby (boards.ie) podcast this week (well the first one this week), episode 40. While I thought they were a bit dismissive of the merits of straight qualification from the Celtic league, the big issue inevitably comes down to money. What the English and French are actually about is splitting the money 3 ways rather than 6 - on the basis that the money would be split between the three leagues, rather than the 6 unions. Basically it's a money grab - the English and French want a third of the money each, with the remaining third of the money then split between the Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy. It is kinda being dressed up as it'd increase interest from English and French clubs as they'd have a financial motivation. Could be a very interesting negotiation!

**Stuttgart88** · 18/05/2012, 12:43 PM

Could the French and English threaten a break away of sorts, like the ECA has done with UEFA?

And would the Welsh clubs then be tempted across?

I wonder will the whole thing move towards a European league. Only if financially better for all big clubs.

**Macy** · 18/05/2012, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Could the French and English threaten a break away of sorts, like the ECA has done with UEFA?

And would the Welsh clubs then be tempted across?

I wonder will the whole thing move towards a European league. Only if financially better for all big clubs.

Not sure - I'm sure an anglo-french cup will be theatened. The issue/ excuse being given is to increase the attractiveness of the competition to English and French clubs through increased money, as at the moment their domestic leagues take precedence in both prestige and financially. Obviously, they do have some pull as they are the two biggest TV markets too.

They'd stand more chance on the qualification issues (if there was some guarantee of at least one from each celtic league nation) and increased prize money and reduced general income pot to be divided. Obviously even they don't believe they're are better, and/or that the issue is the guaranteed qualification for celtic league teams, given that's not what they're looking for.

**Charlie Darwin** · 21/05/2012, 8:57 PM

It seems to be all but confirmed Denis Leamy will join David Wallace, Ian Dowling and Jerry Flannery in retirement. I have never been convinced by him in an Ireland shirt but he had some immense games for Munster. Next year will be a huge one in Limerick.

**BonnieShels** · 22/05/2012, 9:42 AM

Leo Cullen seemingly omitted again whilst the penalty magnet DOC makes it again.

**Real ale Madrid** · 23/05/2012, 1:27 PM

Was just looking back over our record against Southern Hemisphere teams on Summer tours:

Played: 36
Won: 6
Drawn: 0
Lost: 30

Our Wins are: Australia (3) - 1979 twice and 1967
Fiji - 1976
Tonga 2002
Samoa 2002

Given our historical form on these end of season tours - it will be a hell of an achievement to lose the series 2-1. I'd take any win over New Zealand.

**Real ale Madrid** · 07/06/2012, 6:59 AM

Its going to be some weekend of Sport, kicking off with the 1st Test on Saturday morning.

Ireland team to play the All Blacks Saturday:

R Kearney; F McFadden, B O'Driscoll (captain), K Earls, S Zebo; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, D Fitzpatrick, D Tuohy, D Ryan, P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.

Great to see some new faces in there - although it will be a tough baptism of fire for Zebo and Fitzpatrick who are both low enough on experience. Looking forward to seeing how Ryan and Touhy do as a 2nd row partnership.

Australia host Wales after this and South Africa entertain England in the afternoon.